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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: Shep on Sunday 14 June 15 17:33 BST (UK)

Title: 1866 marriage registered in Great Boughton but where was it?
Post by: Shep on Sunday 14 June 15 17:33 BST (UK)
1866 marriage registered in Great Boughton but where was it? Not as easy as it sounds.

I have the marriage certificate (from the GRO) of a marriage that took place on the 15th November 1866 'at the Register Office in the District of Great Boughton in the County of Chester Flint and City of Chester'. The couple lived in Pulford which is right on the Cheshire / Denbighshire border.
The marriage isn't listed on CheshireBMD or North Wales BMD hence the only source was the GRO.

GENUKI advises that until 1870 Great Boughton had 4 sub-districts. How can I determine which sub-district they attended to get married?  The Sub-districts most likely are : Chester Castle (1837-69) ; Chester Cathedral (1837-69) or Hawarden (1837-69).

Does anyone know where the register offices were for the above sub-districts and what format the ceremony took i.e. was it in a dingy office with a couple of witnesses?

So many questions from what I thought would be a simple marriage location on the certificate.

 ???

Title: Re: 1866 marriage registered in Great Boughton but where was it?
Post by: Victor Harvey on Sunday 14 June 15 18:09 BST (UK)
Google Great Boughton Cheshire Map
Victor
Title: Re: 1866 marriage registered in Great Boughton but where was it?
Post by: Shep on Sunday 14 June 15 18:21 BST (UK)
Already tried that Victor, it didn't really help. I know the areas it covered but not how you determine the location / addresses of the sub districts.
Title: Re: 1866 marriage registered in Great Boughton but where was it?
Post by: AdrianB38 on Sunday 14 June 15 18:22 BST (UK)
It might be useful to look at the coverage information and also see where the sub-district books have ended up. If the Chester Castle & Chester Cathedral books are held by Cheshire West now, and if the coverage on CheshireBMD for those sub-districts is completed for the year, then this would suggest that the marriage was in the sub-district books that ended up across the border in Wales.

But then one should check where the Hawarden books are and see if their coverage in North Wales (presumably) BMD is complete...

I'm guessing that somewhere coverage is incomplete, and I'm hoping that 3 of the 4 have complete coverage, allowing you to deduce that the marriage must be in the 4th.
Title: Re: 1866 marriage registered in Great Boughton but where was it?
Post by: Shep on Sunday 14 June 15 18:30 BST (UK)
Thanks Adrian. I did call in to see Mr Flanigan, the head registrar in Chester / Cheshire West last week to show him the certificate. He only has Great Boughton marriages from 1870 onwards ( hence the marriage missing from Cheshire BMD).
It looks like the Chester Castle / Cathedral books have gone missing for the period circa 1866 and as they aren't on North Wales BMD, perhaps missing for Hawarden too.
I'd still like to know where these Register Offices were situated though.
Title: Re: 1866 marriage registered in Great Boughton but where was it?
Post by: mazi on Sunday 14 June 15 20:25 BST (UK)
I am about to be shot down in flames but I don't think you could be married in a sub district.
Marriages had to be in " The Registry Office", defined as the government office of the superintendent registrar, only the main district had a register office and a superintendent.

I will go and hide  :) :)
Mike
Title: Re: 1866 marriage registered in Great Boughton but where was it?
Post by: AdrianB38 on Sunday 14 June 15 20:42 BST (UK)
1864 Morris & Co. Directory of Cheshire has (p.42)
Registrar of Births & Deaths for Chester Cathedral District (note - District, not Sub-District! I think terminology is not consistent. AB) Thomas Wood, 21 Werburgh St
Registrar of Births & Deaths for Chester Castle District, George Haswell, 89 Foregate St
Registrar of Births & Deaths for Hawarden District, P Mitchell, Bretton
Registrar of Births & Deaths for Tattenhall District, Thomas James Proudlove, Tattenhall
Superintendent Registrar, Edward Evans, Crypt chambers, Eastgate row.

I guess we don't know if these are their offices or homes but since this is in the Public Establishments section, it would not be logical to use the home addresses unless they worked from home. Probably one should follow up other Directories.

And, err, just look - it's Registrar of Births & Deaths, and not Marriages! Well I never!  ;)
Title: Re: 1866 marriage registered in Great Boughton but where was it?
Post by: AdrianB38 on Sunday 14 June 15 22:44 BST (UK)
Guy Etchells (to whom, thanks) has provided "Transcripts of Various Acts of Parliament of Interest to the Genealogist" on http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~framland/acts/actind.htm (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~framland/acts/actind.htm). I have been trying to locate the phrasing about where "civil" marriages could take place but so far failing. You really need to be au fait with the phrasing to stop it getting in the way of the information therein.

My impression is that it did need the involvement of the Superintendent Registrar but I'm not sure if I'm getting the right gist. In fact, I'm not even sure which Act authorised marriages outside the buildings of the previous three denominations and whether the text authorising "civil" marriages is different from the text authorising marriages with the registrar present in "other" chapels.
Title: Re: 1866 marriage registered in Great Boughton but where was it?
Post by: KGarrad on Sunday 14 June 15 23:26 BST (UK)
Just speaking of districts and sub-districts I know:

Southmead is/was a sub-district of Bristol Registration district.
You could register births and deaths there, but you could not be married there.
Indeed, my own birth, and those of my daughters and granddaughters were all registered there!

And, just looking at (as an example) BathBMD and the pages for Births Information, Marriages Information and Deaths Information, mention is made of sub-districts for births and deaths but NOT for marriages.

My conclusion is that marriages had to take place at the District Register Office, and not sub-district offices.
Title: Re: 1866 marriage registered in Great Boughton but where was it?
Post by: Shep on Sunday 14 June 15 23:48 BST (UK)
Thanks guys.

It therefore points to them marrying at the main district Register office if the sub-districts weren't allowed to register marriages. That would presumably mean Chester - just need to find a directory which gives its location e.g. Crypt Chambers, Eastgate Row? Crypt Chambers does not quite sound like a happy place to get wed!

Unfortunately, they were married by the deputy registrar and not the Superintendent Registrar.
Title: Re: 1866 marriage registered in Great Boughton but where was it?
Post by: KGarrad on Sunday 14 June 15 23:54 BST (UK)
OK! I admit it! You've made me curious.

Why do you want to know exactly where they married?
Title: Re: 1866 marriage registered in Great Boughton but where was it?
Post by: Shep on Monday 15 June 15 00:01 BST (UK)
Why not? We all record the church but if it's Register Office not the location. Pure curiosity as to what the Register Office looked like in 1866 (if the building still exists).

Originally, I thought there may be more than one location in the same district i.e. Chester or Hawarden where they could marry. Living in Pulford, they could easily have gone to either.
Title: Re: 1866 marriage registered in Great Boughton but where was it?
Post by: KGarrad on Monday 15 June 15 00:05 BST (UK)
Each to their own! ;D

I rarely take any notice of which churches my ancestors married in - mainly because they all had the choice of 1 church!

P.S. My latest marriage was in Pulford!! ;D ;D
Title: Re: 1866 marriage registered in Great Boughton but where was it?
Post by: silvery on Monday 15 June 15 06:28 BST (UK)
I was going to suggest the Town Hall, but this wasn't opened until 1869.   The previous administration building burned down in 1862.   Must have been some sort of temporary building that they were using in these years.

http://www.chestertownhall.co.uk/
Title: Re: 1866 marriage registered in Great Boughton but where was it?
Post by: ShaunJ on Monday 15 June 15 07:07 BST (UK)
When the registration act was implemented in 1837, the Great Boughton Union was divided into 4 Registrar's Districts: Hawarden, Tattenhall, Great Boughton Castle, and Great Boughton Cathedral. Each of these Districts had its own Registrar of Births and Deaths

However there was only one Registrar of Marriages for all 4 Districts. In 1837 that was William Frederick Jones Bage, registrar of Great Boughton Cathedral district. He was a surgeon, of Chester.

(Chester Chronicle 23 June 1837, page 2, notice given by Thomas Parry, superintendent registrar, Chester)

Title: Re: 1866 marriage registered in Great Boughton but where was it?
Post by: ShaunJ on Monday 15 June 15 07:25 BST (UK)
1857 Post Office Directory of Cheshire (page 91):

Registrar of Births & Deaths for Castle Division, & of Marriages for Boughton District: George Haswell, 34 Seller Street
Title: Re: 1866 marriage registered in Great Boughton but where was it?
Post by: mazi on Monday 15 June 15 10:25 BST (UK)
Sorry for opening a can of worms  :) :)
The marriage cert. must show the place where the marriage took place and the person who performed the ceremony, so a marriage in a sub district several miles from the registry office, were it permitted, would surely say so.

Mike
Title: Re: 1866 marriage registered in Great Boughton but where was it?
Post by: AdrianB38 on Monday 15 June 15 14:44 BST (UK)
... It therefore points to them marrying at the main district Register office ... just need to find a directory which gives its location e.g. Crypt Chambers, Eastgate Row?...

Unfortunately, they were married by the deputy registrar and not the Superintendent Registrar.

I would imagine that the main register office would be that occupied by the Superintendent Registrar - i.e. Crypt chambers, Eastgate row on 1864. I wouldn't read too much into marriage by the Deputy Registrar as far as the location goes, as the bits that I could read of the legislation were clear that the Superintendent had to have a deputy for marriage purposes and if specific places had to be authorised, then I can see no real reason to go to the time and trouble of authorising anything other than the single office.

Crypt Chambers has its own Wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypt_Chambers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypt_Chambers). My guess would be that The Registrar used some of the building (built 1858 as a department store) as office space. The fact that it was a department store makes it unlikely that it was his home address.

Nonetheless, it would be useful to work through Directories to see if it moved. I note that George Haswell's address moved between 1857 and the 1864 Directory I quoted - maybe the sub-district Registrars could work out of home or a day-job office as it seems that they wouldn't keep their registers after completion but would pass them on to the SR. Moving the SR's office, with its archive of completed registers, plus its legal authorisation for marriages, would seem a bigger step.

Interesting - it's actually something I'd never given thought to!  :)
Title: Re: 1866 marriage registered in Great Boughton but where was it?
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Friday 19 June 15 16:57 BST (UK)
Actually, that's started me thinking, too.
I'd assumed that where it was listed as being "Register Office" it didn't actually mean that always, but could have been performed somewhere like a Non-Conformist chapel, etc, that was a reputable palace of worship, but with the registrar attending.
Is this wrong? I'd not assumed that they all trekked to some Town Hall Office in the late 19thC, but had assumed that they married somehow in the chapel that they worshipped in, where the congregation would be, but with the civil bit done "on the spot" as it were.
-And oddly enough, one of the ones that I'd assumed would be such was .... Hawarden area, some time like 1860s! Never managed to find that one!
Title: Re: 1866 marriage registered in Great Boughton but where was it?
Post by: AdrianB38 on Friday 19 June 15 20:20 BST (UK)
My belief is that - provided you're looking at the actual certificate - then it is possible to distinguish between a registrar-attended wedding at a chapel, etc, and a register office wedding. I'm looking right now at a registrar-attended certificate of 1847 and it says
and it's followed by a counter-signature as it were, of the Registrar underneath that of the priest.

So in this case it's explicit that it's in a chapel, and with typical strict rules about wording, I find it difficult to believe that other registrar-attended weddings would be different.

Certainly, it's more difficult to tell in an index entry.
Title: Re: 1866 marriage registered in Great Boughton but where was it?
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Sunday 21 June 15 16:53 BST (UK)
That's more or less what I meant. When you'd send for the certificate, you'd find out where it took place, if it was at a chapel or similar, I'm sure. I think I'd assumed OP was working from an index record. Looking properly - they already have the certificate, so I'm unable to think why it doesn't state where, and it must be a Register Office, then?
Title: Re: 1866 marriage registered in Great Boughton but where was it?
Post by: Shep on Monday 22 June 15 11:43 BST (UK)
Thanks guys. I know it's a Register Office, that's not the issue. I just want to know where it was and if it was a quick office job or a more formal ceremony. Who'd have thought tracking a Register Office down could be so much fun!