RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: Noy1818 on Thursday 18 June 15 11:54 BST (UK)
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Hello everyone!
I have just found a new convict in my family a few days ago after breaking through a brick wall i had been stuck on for over a year! I have a convict by the name of James Harvey who was born about 1818 in Tharston, London, England. He was transported to Van Diemans land and was married to Esther Jamieson in 1852. I know he was in Victoria Australia by the year 1860 as 5 out of his 7 children were born there. I have gone through every convict by the name of James Harvey and have eliminated all of them apart from 2. I cannot work out which convict is my convict.
Here are the 2 men
1 . James Harvey
Trial Place: Central Criminal Court
Trial Date: 28 February 1842
Sentence: 10 years
Ship- Waterloo
Now you see the Waterloo wrecked at Table Bay, Cape Town, South Africa. There was 144 deaths recorded. The remainder 72 convicts were then transported to VDL on the ship Cape Packet. James survived the sinking.
2. James Harvey
Trial Place: Central Criminal Court
Trial Date: 24 November 1834
Sentence: 7 years
Age 20 on arrival
D.O.B- abt 1815
Native place- Old Brentford
Crime- Stealing a great coat
This is all the information I have for the moment and I am hoping one of you may be able to help find out which convict I am related too, as this will help me break through another brick wall. Thanks :) ;D
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Is Tharston in London? When I google it seems to be in Norfolk? Are you sure his birthplace is correct as Tharston, London, England?
Old Brentford seems to be in London.
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More details on the Old Brentford, James Harvey (2), arrived 1835 on "The Mangles", a market gardener with Tattoos, black hair, blue eyes, 20 years old
http://www.founders-storylines.com/mugsheets/convicts/faces/ai31047/james_harvey
James Harvey (2) Only 18 years on conviction
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18341124-65-punishment-58&div=t18341124-65#highlight
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James Harvey (1) 28th February 1842 aged 24, previous felony. His crime stealing a hankerchief
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18420228-876-punishment-19&div=t18420228-876#highlight
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Just looking at maps and your right! Tharston is no where near London. I got this off a few genealogy sites that had indexs of his birth. Thanks for that. Even more confusing now that we don't know if he was born in London or Tharston.
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Hello
The coverage of the 1842 trial for pick pocketing is on http://www.oldbaileyonline.org
This James is 24 and the crime happens in Wapping, so born 1818.
Ciderdrinker
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Is it the one who married Esther James in Hobart in April 26th 1852 ? He was aged 34 and a shoemaker by trade according to the register.
The one who arrived in 1842 was a shoemaker, a native of St James's Westminster
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON33-1-30,226,88,F,60
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So he was probably the man on the the Waterloo, what a scary ship wreck! 200 odd people died!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterloo_%28ship%29
Noy perhaps he was born in Tharston but lived in London for a good while?
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Thank you everyone so much for all of your replies. I have worked out that my James Harvey is the one who traveled on the Waterloo which sank. All of the information you have given proves it is him. What a great new story to tell the relatives! Thank you all again for your time and effort you put into Rootschat :) :D ;D ;)
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I'm currently trying to piece together the families that are prolific in Tharston, Norfolk. There are quite a few Harveys in the village especially around the first half of the nineteenth century. Do you have the names of James Harvey's parents or any siblings? I have found no reference to a baptism of James around the 1818 time. If it proves to be that James is connected to Tharston I will gladly share what is found.
Nigel (A Tharston Norfolk resident)
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Hi Nigel,
Great to hear from you on such an old thread! All I know regarding James Harvey's parents (as sited from his death certificate) is that his father was James Harvey (occupation- Draper) and his mother was Mary Harvey (maiden name- unknown, occupation- not known). I am not sure if he had any siblings or not.
At the end of this month, I am heading over to England myself for the first time and I am planning on checking out some of the places that some of my ancestors originated from (such as James Harvey) so any info that is relevant would be very much appreciated!
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Perhaps you missed this reply:
Is it the one who married Esther James in Hobart in April 26th 1852 ? He was aged 34 and a shoemaker by trade according to the register.
The one who arrived in 1842 was a shoemaker, a native of St James's Westminster
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON33-1-30,226,88,F,60
The indent for James also gives his native place as St James's Westminster, and names mother Mary of New St (I think), brothers William and John. Not sure what the last squiggle is, could be 'Dec' referring to the brothers. Normally after relatives' names their place of abode is given.
https://stors.tas.gov.au/CON14-1-18
Images 46 and 47.
Debra :)
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..... and was married to Esther Jamieson in 1852.
Her name was JAMES not JAMIESON.
https://stors.tas.gov.au/CON41-1-31 (image 95)
https://stors.tas.gov.au/CON15-1-7 (images 100/101)
Brothers Thomas and William, sister Love.
The family in 1841:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7MJ-HCG
Debra :)
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Hi Debra,
Thanks for the info and records! Its been a while since this thread has been active and since then I have done a little more research myself which isn't on the thread. Like you mentioned, her surname was James not Jamieson. Her daughter's (Alice Maria) marriage certificate notes her name is Jamieson (but she obviously gave a different name to remove herself from her convict past!).
It's her life before transportation that is the biggest blur, however the names of her siblings and that census record will start hopefully pointing me in the right direction!
Unfortunately she endured an abusive relationship with Harvey (evidenced by the numerous newspaper reports and his convictions, which I will upload if anyone is interested in the read), despite them having 7 children. Overall, she must have been an extremely strong woman. I did find her unmarked grave at the Melbourne General Cemetery and I got a headstone made up for her (which I feel like may be on another thread somewhere).
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I have just looked at all the parish records we have from the relevant period and can find no possible connection between your James an any of our Harveys.
As you know I am trying to create a 'family tree' of Tharston and, when I've completed the current family under research, the Bensleys, I'll have a look at the Harveys and let you know if I find anything interesting.
Just a quick thought - there are several villages around here with very similar names, are you sure it is Tharston as there are Starston, Thuston, Stuston to name but three, and I have often found people have confused these both in transcriptions and on original documents.
I hope you have a good trip when you visit us and, should the Tharston contact be fruitful, we would be pleased to meet you in our village.
Regards. Nigel
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Hi Nigel,
I didn't realise there was similar villages with similar names in the area (Tharston, Starston, Thuston, Stuston, no wonder people got them mixed up). Haven't heard or researched any of them! I will have to do some more research and see if any have any connections to the Harveys. Thank you for your help and guidance, very much appreciated ;D
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I have a James Harvey born in Tharston in 1811 but I do not think that he is your convict - he was still in Tharston in 1851. Enclosed is the story so far .....
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I have a James Harvey born in Tharston in 1811 but I do not think that he is your convict - he was still in Tharston in 1851. Enclosed is the story so far .....
So close yet so far! Thanks for putting time into the research Nigel ;D