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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Wiltshire => Topic started by: 'Trish' on Saturday 20 June 15 19:56 BST (UK)
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I am trying to sort out my great aunts family tree. My great Aunt was Rose Warren born Stratton St Margaret June quarter 1874. I found, I thought was the mother Emma Warren at Highworth workhouse in 1871, with Alice age 4, Ann age 6 & Thomas age 6mths. In the workhouse also Richard Warren age 71 born Highworth. Also there was James Frampton age 65 born Swindon & James Heath age 85 born Blunsdon.
I have two marriages for Emma, firstly to William Warren married 1861, secondly, William Hazell married 1876. I have Emma's parents as Eliza surname unknown & ? Heath. Eliza born 1812 Bourton. Eliza married James Frampton 1842.
Have I got the correct Emma born c1830. Who is the man Richard Warren, is he her father in law? Is James Frampton, the James Frampton who married Eliza? And is James Heath, Emma's father?
Emma used Heath or Frampton surname. I have found other Emma Heath's. Eliza was married twice, but surely her 1st husband would be deceased not in the workhouse with Eliza's 2nd husband. But I looked on census & found Richard Warren with a daughter Emma, I am completely & utterley muddled regards Trish
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For info this is the 1881 census: living in a Private House in Stratton St. Margaret, Wiltshire
Emma Hazell 40 Hd Widow Laundress b. Berks, Bourton
Thomas Warren 12 Son Scholar b. Wilts, Blunsdon
Rose Warren 8 Dau b. Wilts, Stratton St. Margaret
James Jones 37 Unm. Boarder Railway Labourer b.? Little Dean
Pheno
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It just seems a bit odd that Emma Warren seems to be a pauper inmate in the workhouse in 1871 and the head of a family living in a private house in 1881! Not sure that these are the same families as none of the children are the same in 1881 as they were in 1871 as the ages don't fit. Also workhouse Emma's age is 37 in 1871 and only 40 in 1881.
Just a thought that maybe there is another Emma out there in 1871 more closely matched to the 1881 Emma which seems to be great aunt Rose's family.
Pheno
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I think I have inadvertently muddled the Emma's. Regards Trish
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I'm not too sure where Richard Warren fits yet -but wondered if this is Emma -and her hubby william Warren??
You really need marriage cert
possibly William Warren married the girl next door but one???
1841
Bourton Berks
Richard Heath 75 ag lab
Mary 65
ELIZA 25
Mary 20
James 5
Emma 3
all b in county
(possibly -no proof yet) Emma Heath (and James) were illegit children of eliza???
next door but one
William warren 40 ag lab
Hainey(female) 37
Jane 15
George 15
Maria 14
Henry 12
Edwin 7
Ann 5
WILLIAM 2
William Warren 70 ag lab no
all except William age 70 b in couty
HO107 27 11 6 7
1851
Harken? RdS marston Highworth
William Warren Head M 53 Thatcher
Hainey wife 50
Edwin son 17 lab
WILLIAM son 12
John son 8
Harriet daughter 4
all b Bourton
HO107 1833 106 7
1861
Stratton St Margaret Wiltshire
James Debanks Head M 40 Victualler
Mary A wife 43
William son 5
Elizabeth Cowley servant 17 general servant
Thomas Gibbs Lodger U 23 General Dealer
WILLIAM WARREN Lodger U 22 Pensioner Army Bourton
John Iles Lodger U 60 Medicine vendor
RG9 1269 65 3
Suz
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1851 - Bourton
James Frampton 54
Eliza Frampton 38 - wife
Jacob Frampton 6
John Frampton 3 Mo
James Heath 15 - wife's son
Emma Heath 12 - wife's daughter
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Does look like Eliza was unmarried when she had Emma and James
Eliza Heath
Born 11 Jul 1813
Baptised 18 Jul 1813, Shrivenham, Berkshire
Father Richard Heath
Mother Mary
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Do yuo know which William Emma married - father or son??
1861 - Highworth
William Warren 64 - widower, thatcher
Emma Frampton 23 - lodger, unmarried, b Bourton on the Hill, Berks
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South Marston baptisms. [not completed yet]; http://southmarstonbaptisms.webs.com/
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Looks like it could be the father - William Warren b Bourton c1839 is with wife Martha on 1871
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Shrivenham, Bourton & Watchfield parish registers [at the Shrivenham heritage society];
http://www.shrivenhamheritagesociety.co.uk/listing.asp?listID=1230
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Warren, Alice daughter of William & Emma 4-Nov-1866 Thatcher
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Do yuo know which William Emma married - father or son??
1861 - Highworth
William Warren 64 - widower, thatcher
Emma Frampton 23 - lodger, unmarried, b Bourton on the Hill, Berks
Good thinking!!!
It seems most likely Emma married William the father
Maybe this is his death reg
William Warren Mar qtr 1870 age 73 Highworth
Suz
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Warren, Alice daughter of William & Emma 4-Nov-1866 Thatcher
At South Marston
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Eliza Frampton was a widow in the 1861 so I don't think it is her husband James who appears in the 1871 census for the workhouse. It is entirely possible that none of the men you mention are related to Emma and are just fellow workhouse inmates.
Isobel
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i think the baptism I posted sealed it (father a thatcher - William jnr is an ag lab). So it probably is Emma in the workhouse - just her age wrong. Looks like she was widowed whilst expecting Thomas - he appears to be 6 weeks old on 1871
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Emma Frampton 23 - lodger, unmarried, b Bourton on the Hill, Berks
This is a small problem, Bourton on the Hill is in Gloucestershire, near Moreton in Marsh. Although there is a previous question about Bourton, Shrivenham being named such,
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I only knew there was one born 1797 Shiverham. Regards Trish
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Please could you also let me know if Alice, Ann or Thomas married? regards Trish
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Probably Bourton hill, Bourton Shrivenham.
Saying that, I cannot see a baptism in 1797 for a Emma Frampton in the Shrivenham parish registers I posted a link to
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Think Alice may have died
Alice Warren
Q1 1875
Age 9
Highworth Vol 5a, p10
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All seems a bit more hopeful, of unmuddling this. Regards Trish
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Have we decided which William Warren Emma married? Regards Trish
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The father - the son has wife Martha in 1871. Alice's father is a thatcher, as was Will snr.