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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: snwbnnyinoz on Monday 22 June 15 02:10 BST (UK)
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Searching for information on my husband's grandfather. Henry Joseph Fitzpatrick
I have that he was born about 1891 in Ngaruawahia, NZ and he died 4/11/1953.
I have from his marriage cert that his mother's name was Elizabeth Fitzpatrick but no father's name listed.
There is mention in the family records that he was in St. Joseph's Orphanage on the North Shore, Auckland. I haven't been able to find a birth record for him. First record I can find is his marriage to Meta Mauvina May Elizabeth Ferry in 1920 Apparently he had also had a brother named John George Fitzpatrick born 1890 and a sister named Rose. ( I haven't been able to find them either)
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Paula
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These children were all born to an Elizabeth with father not recorded
1881/11164 Fitzpatrick James Fitzpatrick Elizabeth NR
1894/2211 Fitzpatrick John Goodwin Elizabeth NR
1897/12812 Fitzpatrick Mary Elizabeth NR
1898/16593 Fitzpatrick Rose Elizabeth NR
1911/291 Fitzpatrick Mary Elizabeth NR
Cheers Janette
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St Josephs is still in existance you could try contacting them to see if they have records
http://www.sj.school.nz/web_page/history/
Cheers Janette
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Thank you so much for the information. I have emailed the school to see if they know of any records.
Thanks again Paula.
Any idea where else to find any information?
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Here is his WW1 file that gives his birth date as 1/03/1891
http://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE14891789
He states both parents born in Ireland father deceased
Cheers Janette
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1894/2211 Fitzpatrick John Goodwin Elizabeth NR
Hello...
Page 7 of the Army Service record for John George FITZPATRICK says "John Goodwyne FITZPATRICK" with Goodwyne crossed out and a note saying "enlisted as George"
FITZPATRICK, John George - WW1 62535 - Army
http://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=21003287&digital=yes (http://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=21003287&digital=yes)
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And this is the brother H.J FITZPATRICK, mentioned as living at the same address.
FITZPATRICK, Henry Joseph - WW1 70462 - Army
http://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=21003307&digital=yes (http://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=21003307&digital=yes)
Regards
Beg
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The NOK for John George is H J Fitzpatrick (brother)
Cheers Janette
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Will throw this in:
NZ Gazette Entries
Name : FITZPATRICK John George
Date : 1917
Place : Remuera
Occupation : Farm Hand
Source : NZ Gazette 1917
Page : 910
Record Type : Military Call Up
Cheers
KHP
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The sister Rose.
School Records (APWs)
Name : FITZPATRICK Rose
School : Taupiri
Register Number : 000570
Admission Date : 20 May 1907
Parent / Guardian : Mr C LOVELL
Birthdate : 25 Oct 1898
Destination : Ngaruawahia
Birth dates on School records are taken with a pinch of salt.
Cheers
KHP
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First record I can find is his marriage to Meta Mauvina May Elizabeth Ferry in 1920
Page 7 of the Army Service record [...]
Coincidentally I have some miscellaneous ITM's.
One of them is for the "Mrs S. GERBICH" mentioned on page 7 as John George/Goodwyne FITZPATRICK's niece.
The ITM notes that she is the daughter of Henry Joseph & Meta Morvena May Elizabeth FITZPATRICK, 17 Smith Street, Frankton Junction.
Mrs GERBICH's husband is buried at Hamilton Park Cemetery
1982/48572 - GERBICH, Serge - d.o.b 17/5/1929
Hamilton City Council - cemetery search
http://www.hamilton.govt.nz/our-services/do-it-online/cemetery-search/Pages/default.aspx (http://www.hamilton.govt.nz/our-services/do-it-online/cemetery-search/Pages/default.aspx)
Regards
Beg
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Hi,
There is an on-line tree for this family, (Henry {Harry} Joseph Fitzpatrick), with 7 extra children from 1920 onwards. Is it yours?
Cheers
KHP
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Name : FITZPATRICK Rose
School : Taupiri
Register Number : 000570
Admission Date : 20 May 1907
Parent / Guardian : Mr C LOVELL
Birthdate : 25 Oct 1898
Destination : Ngaruawahia
Following on from the school record mentioned by KHP...this might be Rose FITZPATRICK but I've no real proof.
Grain of salt :-)
1894/10196 - LOVELL, Rose Aileen Margaret - mother: Barbara father: Charles Ralph
Date of birth is 26 Oct 1894.
The school record says 25 Oct 1898.
The BDM NZ birth record found by Janette says d.o.b 15 Oct 1898
The 1893 electoral roll has Charles in Taupiri.
http://tinyurl.com/o9wmnd3 (http://tinyurl.com/o9wmnd3)
Grain of salt :-)
Regards
Beg
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Hi,
There is an on-line tree for this family, (Henry {Harry} Joseph Fitzpatrick), with 7 extra children from 1920 onwards. Is it yours?
Cheers
KHP
I'm not sure.....do you have a link......I only have 6 children in my records but there may be more. Very difficult to get information from my mother in law.
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Thanks Beg. This is the school record for Rose Lovell, so I may as well add this to the confusion of wondering if the record I posted earlier was the Rose that is being searched for. ;D
School Records (APWs)
Name : LOVELL Rose
School : Taupiri
Register Number : 000364
Admission Date : 9 Feb 1900
Parent / Guardian : Mr Chas LOVELL
Address : Taupiri
Birthdate : 26 Oct 1894
Last Day : 23 Mar 1909
Destination : Convent
Cheers
KHP
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Hi,
There is an on-line tree for this family, (Henry {Harry} Joseph Fitzpatrick), with 7 extra children from 1920 onwards. Is it yours?
Cheers
KHP
I'm not sure.....do you have a link......I only have 6 children in my records but there may be more. Very difficult to get information from my mother in law.
It was on Ancestry.
Cheers
KHP
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First record I can find is his marriage to Meta Mauvina May Elizabeth Ferry in 1920
Page 7 of the Army Service record [...]
Coincidentally I have some miscellaneous ITM's.
Sorry to ask but what is an ITM
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ITM = Intention to Marry
Here is a link that explains what it is.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714246.0
Cheers
KHP
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This is the school record for Rose Lovell [...]
Hi KHP :)
Looking like they're two different Roses.
Was worth a punt :-)
Do the NZSG sell that Kiwi CD to us unwashed yet or is it still members only.
All the best
Beg
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Rose FITZPATRICK - born on 15 October 1898 ... daughter of Elizabeth FITZPATRICK of Ngaruawahia, is mentioned in the following article >
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
"Auckland Star" - 8 March 1899 - page 3 - column 2
~ Lu
Edit: Surname of other person mentioned in article, is possibly "Vant" (rather than "Vaut") ??
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Further article mentioning Elizabeth FITZPATRICK of Ngaruawahia
"New Zealand Herald" - 6 January 1893 - Country News
~ Lu
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For Elimination :
[Rose Eileen Margaret LOVELL - d/o Charles Ralph and Barbara (Christina Barbara) LOVELL.
In the 1929 Probate record (L of A) of Charles Ralph LOVELL, she is mentioned as being Rose Eileen POWELL, (w/o Leslie POWELL), 34 years of age (in 1929) and daughter (and only child), of above couple. ]
~ Lu
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Hi Paula
* Do you know the maiden surname of Elizabeth FITZPATRICK, please ?
* Do you know when/where she died ??
~ Lu
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Do the NZSG sell that Kiwi CD to us unwashed yet or is it still members only.
All the best
Beg
Members only.
Cheers
KHP
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Hi Paula
* Do you know the maiden surname of Elizabeth FITZPATRICK, please ?
* Do you know when/where she died ??
~ Lu
Sorry don't know maiden name or if Fitzpatrick is actually her maiden name. From looking at the newspaper articles I would almost presume that she wasn't married as it says that she has illegitimate children.
I do not know where or when she died either. I assume after 1918 (doesn't show as deceased on son's army records)
Thanks for all your help guys you are amazing.
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Further article mentioning Elizabeth FITZPATRICK of Ngaruawahia
"New Zealand Herald" - 6 January 1893 - Country News
~ Lu
Hi Paula
I would think that the "Lizzie FITZPATRICK" mentioned in the following article, is very probably the same woman as the above "Elizabeth FITZPATRICK" ??
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
"New Zealand Herald" - 2 February 1893 - The Waikato Hospital & Charitable Aid Board
... Lizzie FITZPATRICK of Ngaruawahia ... 2 children ... one aged 3 years, the other aged 11 months ...
~ Lu
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"New Zealand Herald" - 1 February 1898 - Waikato Hosptial & Charitable Aid Board
... Lizzie FITZPATRICK ... 4 children ... St. Mary's Orphanage
...
~ Lu
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Hi Paula
Further back in this thread, this birth >
1881 - FITZPATRICK - James Fitzpatrick
Parents : Mother - Elizabeth / Father - N/R
Would seem to be this birth shown on the NZ Births microfiche record ?
[Source: ancestry.com - NZ Birth Index ]
1881 - FITZPATRICK - James
Place of Registration: Hamilton
4th Quarter (Oct-Nov-Dec)
Can't see any further births with mother named as "Lizzie" / Lizzy / Eliza" [ next then is 1894 birth of John Goodwin FITZPATRICK - mother Elizabeth / father: N/R ]
see next >>
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"New Zealand Herald" - 23 March 1887 - Waikato District News
Ngaruawahia [Court session]
...Two destitute and neglected boys of a woman named Eliza FITZPATRICK ... were committed to Kohimarama Training School ...
Note: Adding this in case it applies to the James FITZPATRICK b. 1881 (mother: Elizabeth).
???
~ Lu
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Lizzie was still in Ngaruawahia in 1911
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=WT19111004.2.50.6&srpos=7&e=-------10--1-byDA---2lizzie+fitzpatrick--
Cheers Janette
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This may indicate poor Lizzie was maybe a little simple as they used to say
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=NZH18900904.2.48&srpos=2&e=-------10--1-byDA---2eliza+fitzpatrick--
"Eliza Fitzpatrick, charged with assaulting Mary Canty, by striking her on the head with a whitewash brush, was fined 10s, and costs £1 -16-6d , or 14 days. Considerable sympathy was felt for the accused, as she was the first struck, and is not altogether of sound mind, and the amount of fine and costs was subscribed."
Cheers Janette
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This may indicate poor Lizzie was maybe a little simple as they used to say
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=NZH18900904.2.48&srpos=2&e=-------10--1-byDA---2eliza+fitzpatrick--
"Eliza Fitzpatrick, charged with assaulting Mary Canty, by striking her on the head with a whitewash brush, was fined 10s, and costs £1 -16-6d , or 14 days. Considerable sympathy was felt for the accused, as she was the first struck, and is not altogether of sound mind, and the amount of fine and costs was subscribed."
Cheers Janette
It's unfair I believe to suggest that "Lizzie was maybe a little simple". ::)
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This may indicate poor Lizzie was maybe a little simple as they used to say
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=NZH18900904.2.48&srpos=2&e=-------10--1-byDA---2eliza+fitzpatrick--
"Eliza Fitzpatrick, charged with assaulting Mary Canty, by striking her on the head with a whitewash brush, was fined 10s, and costs £1 -16-6d , or 14 days. Considerable sympathy was felt for the accused, as she was the first struck, and is not altogether of sound mind, and the amount of fine and costs was subscribed."
Cheers Janette
Perhaps this is why she had so many children that all seem to be born illegitimate. I did read in one article that it wouldn't be too hard to prove parentage. Wonder what that means? And I wonder who her family are. Mother and or father. Don't you all wish that there was a time machine to transport us back in time?
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Hi again Paula
re: John George FITZPATRICK - WW1 file
When he attested for war service in July? 1817, this man gave his birthdate as "11/5/97" (11 May 1897).
He does though seem to be the child whose birth was registered 1894 as John Goodwin FITZPATRICK (Mother: Elizabeth -- Father: N/R). When birthdate is deduced from the online NZ BDM listing, it gives a date of ... 16 April 1894. ???
[Note: It's not terribly unusual to find on Army files, soldiers giving incorrect info in respect of birthdates. ]
The attestation form [Image 19 of file] gives his mother's name as "Lizzie FITZPATRICK" born Ireland. Mother: Time in NZ - ?? (very difficult to decipher what this says) ?
~ Lu
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Paula ... this too from >
"Waikato Times" - 27 September 1894 - page 4
Police Court - Ngaruawahia
FITZPATRICK v. GOODWIN
... defendant (GOODWIN) failing to support a child.
[Note: Couldn't see anything further re: this case. The "Waikato Times" was only published thrice-weekly at that time ... and the case was to be heard on following day (28th ?) Doesn't seem to have been followed up in the next edition 29th Sept ??]
~ Lu
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Elimination??
Source NZSG Cemetery Fiche
Surname FITZPATRICK
Given Names Lizzie
Year of Death 1883
Record Number 28
Record Type M/I
Age 37
Location Ngaruawahia Public C02.10
Cheers
KHP
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Paula ... this too from >
"Waikato Times" - 27 September 1894 - page 4
Police Court - Ngaruawahia
FITZPATRICK v. GOODWIN
... defendant (GOODWIN) failing to support a child.
[Note: Couldn't see anything further re: this case. The "Waikato Times" was only published thrice-weekly at that time ... and the case was to be heard on following day (28th ?) Doesn't seem to have been followed up in the next edition 29th Sept ??]
~ Lu
You seem to be onto something here. Would make sense why the child John had Goodwin has his middle name.
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Elimination??
Source NZSG Cemetery Fiche
Surname FITZPATRICK
Given Names Lizzie
Year of Death 1883
Record Number 28
Record Type M/I
Age 37
Location Ngaruawahia Public C02.10
Cheers
KHP
I don't think this is her as she had children born in the 1890's, but perhaps her mother?
I found this on BMD website 1883/4886 Fitzpatrick Lizzie 46Y wonder how old she really was.
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The attestation form [Image 19 of file] gives his mother's name as "Lizzie FITZPATRICK" born Ireland. Mother: Time in NZ - ?? (very difficult to decipher what this says) ?
It looks like it says over 40 years
Cheers Janette
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I don't think this is her as she had children born in the 1890's, but perhaps her mother?
I found this on BMD website 1883/4886 Fitzpatrick Lizzie 46Y wonder how old she really was.
Appears that Lizzie was the wife of this Chappie:
FITZPATRICK On Tuesday 3rd inst. at Ngaruawahia, the beloved wife of T V Fitzpatrick. The funeral
will leave the railway wharf at 1 o’clock this day. [Waikato Times, Thur 5 Jul 1883]. His death notice states he was one of Waikato's settlers and died Nov 1883.
Cheers
KHP
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There is an Eliz,Fitzpatrick arriving in NZ in 14th March 1879
Fitzpatrick Eliz. aged 18 from Fermanagh general servant
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FSY1-WQS
There is also a Cathe. Goodwin aged 18 general servant from Fermanagh on the same page
Cheers Janette
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I don't think this is her as she had children born in the 1890's, but perhaps her mother?
I found this on BMD website 1883/4886 Fitzpatrick Lizzie 46Y wonder how old she really was.
Appears that Lizzie was the wife of this Chappie:
FITZPATRICK On Tuesday 3rd inst. at Ngaruawahia, the beloved wife of T V Fitzpatrick. The funeral
will leave the railway wharf at 1 o’clock this day. [Waikato Times, Thur 5 Jul 1883]. His death notice states he was one of Waikato's settlers and died Nov 1883.
Cheers
KHP
T V Fitzpatrick seems to be in the paper quite a bit. He was a land agent in Ngaruawahia and I think his actual name is Thaddius Vicars. I haven't been able to find out how or if he is related to Elizabeth at all.
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There is an Eliz,Fitzpatrick arriving in NZ in 14th March 1879
Fitzpatrick Eliz. aged 18 from Fermanagh general servant
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FSY1-WQS
There is also a Cathe. Goodwin aged 18 general servant from Fermanagh on the same page
Cheers Janette
Perhaps they were friends. Wonder if Cathe is a female or male. Wish I knew Elizabeth's birth or death date.
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There is also a Jno Goodwin on the same ship
Jno Goodwin aged 23 Farm Labr from Fermanagh
and
Michl Fitzpatrick aged 22 Farm Labr from Fermanagh
Cheers Janette
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Perhaps they were friends. Wonder if Cathe is a female or male. Wish I knew Elizabeth's birth or death date.
Cathe was a female
Cheers Janette
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Adding, I know we don't know if Thaddeus Vicars Fitzpatrick of Ngaruawahia is related but look at the beautiful Irish name Bernhard O'Flaherty Fitzpatrick!
Nzbdms
1870/12737 Fitzpatrick Mabel Ellen Elizabeth Fanny Thaddeus Vickers
1871/13706 Fitzpatrick Vincent Joseph Elizabeth Fanny Thaddeus Vicars
1874/285 Fitzpatrick Alice Mary Elizabeth Thadeus Vickers
1875/7526 Fitzpatrick Bernhard O'Flaherty Elizabeth Fanny Thaddeus Vickers
1878/11595 Fitzpatrick Edwin Vicars Elizabeth Fanny Thaddeus Vicars
1902/15376 Fitzpatrick Grace Blossom Elizabeth Fanny Thaddeus Vicars
These birth records are a bit at odds with Thaddeus or Elizabeth being deceased in 1883
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... And I wonder who her family are. Mother and or father.
;D ... well we need to kept "chipping away" at this.
Hard to determine (right now) just when she might have been born ?
Is she the "Elizabeth FITZPATRICK" with a child "James - born 1881" ... and others born 1890's ?
~ Lu
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I will throw these in, could be and might not be , but I am turning any stone under to look at ;D
Source 1911 Electoral Roll
Electorate Raglan
Record Number 1715
Surname FITZPATRICK
Given Names Elizabeth
Place of Residence Ngaruawahia
Occupation spinster
Data Sourced From NZ Five Significant Rolls v1.0
Source 1911 Electoral Roll
Electorate Raglan
Record Number 1716
Surname FITZPATRICK
Given Names Elizabeth
Place of Residence Taupiri
Occupation spinster
Data Sourced From NZ Five Significant Rolls v1.0
Source 1925 Electoral Roll
Electorate Raglan
Record Number 2146
Surname FITZPATRICK
Given Names Eliza
Place of Residence Ngaruawahia
Occupation spinster
Data Sourced From NZ Five Significant Rolls v1.0
Cheers
KHP
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Earlier e/roll listing ... Elizabeth FITZPATRICK, spinster - 1905-06 at Ngaruawahia.
Also listed at Ngaruawahia are an Edmond (Edmund) occ: storekeeper and Caroline FITZPATRICK.
Have been able to rule these people out as being related to Elizabeth.
~ Lu
Edit: Obit for Edmund FITZPATRICK -- "NZ Herald" - 28 July 1922 = page 8
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... and 1896 Waikato roll >
FITZPATRICK - Elizabeth - domestic duties - Komokorau
[FITZPATRICK - Edmond and Caroline at Ngaruawahia are also on this same roll. ]
~ Lu
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These birth records are a bit at odds with Thaddeus or Elizabeth being deceased in 1883
Not necessarily. They are all pre-1883 births.
The birth registered in 1902 narrows down to 27 August 1879
Regards
Beg
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"New Zealand Herald" - 23 March 1887 - Waikato District News
...Two destitute and neglected boys of a woman named Eliza FITZPATRICK were committed to Kohimarama Training School ...
According to Archway the Kohimarama rolls are listed in...
Nominal Rolls, Industrial Schools 1882-1910 - [CW 14/1-27]
The rolls give a child’s name, age, admission date and arrangements.
Each industrial school has its own record with alphabetical listings of names.
In early years these Rolls include various institutions:
Kohimarama
Howe Street (Auckland)
St Marys (Auckland)
St Stephens (Auckland)
Auckland Girls
[...]
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The 1887 rolls would be...
http://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=12026628 (http://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=12026628)
Might be worth a look-up request. I have a feeling the indexes to CW 14 have been transcribed and are on the Kiwi CD so that would save the looker-upper a little bit of time.
KHP?
Regards
Beg
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DEATHS
Providing Elizabeth FITZPATRICK retained that surname, the only probable death in the region in which she resided, seems to be >
1939 - FITZPATRICK - Eliza - 85 years [ bc 1854 ]
This death was registered 3rd quarter 1939 at Hamilton.
[Records for some cemeteries in this location, are not available for viewing online. ]
~ Lu
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KHP?
Regards
Beg
You called? ;D
I pulled up the Industrial School Nominal Rolls, two are for 22 Oct 1893, the rest are for 19 March 1887. The only names that come up are for an Edward, William and Ellen. Kohimarama and these were Catholic children
Looks like an looker upper might have to sight the Rolls.
Cheers
KHP
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19 March 1887. The only names that come up are for an Edward, William and Ellen.
Service with a smile :-)
The 19 March 1887 entries look like the ones considering the newspaper article was 23 March 1887. No other names or reference numbers?
---
]
1939 - FITZPATRICK - Eliza - 85 years [ bc 1854 ]
This death was registered 3rd quarter 1939 at Hamilton.
[Records for some cemeteries in this location, are not available for viewing online. ]
Eliza FITZPATRICK - 85yrs - Female - 01/09/1939
Born:
Buried: 02/09/1939
Type: Burial
Funeral Director: Scrimshaw, E. G.
Last Address: Unspecified
Location: Hamilton East Cemetery - RC-K-091
Not necessarily related but there is a Mary Ann FITZPATRICK in plot RC-K-097. Died 24 Dec 1936 aged 52 years.
Regards
Beg
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The 19 March 1887 entries look like the ones considering the newspaper article was 23 March 1887. No other names or reference numbers?
Regards
Beg
Reference CW14 .... no other names.
Sad to think that a little lad was 3yrs 6months when he went in.
Cheers
KHP
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19 March 1887. The only names that come up are for an Edward, William and Ellen.
Service with a smile :-)
The 19 March 1887 entries look like the ones considering the newspaper article was 23 March 1887. No other names or reference numbers?
---
]
1939 - FITZPATRICK - Eliza - 85 years [ bc 1854 ]
This death was registered 3rd quarter 1939 at Hamilton.
[Records for some cemeteries in this location, are not available for viewing online. ]
Eliza FITZPATRICK - 85yrs - Female - 01/09/1939
Born:
Buried: 02/09/1939
Type: Burial
Funeral Director: Scrimshaw, E. G.
Last Address: Unspecified
Location: Hamilton East Cemetery - RC-K-091
Not necessarily related but there is a Mary Ann FITZPATRICK in plot RC-K-097. Died 24 Dec 1936 aged 52 years.
Regards
Beg
Elizabeth's son Henry Joseph (Harry) and his wife Meta Merena are also buried in this cemetery. I have sent a request to my husband's cousin in NZ to see if she can find anything in her Mother's home that can help. You just never know what could be hiding in a drawer.
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"New Zealand Herald" - 23 March 1887 - Waikato District News
...Two destitute and neglected boys of a woman named Eliza FITZPATRICK were committed to Kohimarama Training School ...
According to Archway the Kohimarama rolls are listed in...
Nominal Rolls, Industrial Schools 1882-1910 - [CW 14/1-27]
The rolls give a child’s name, age, admission date and arrangements.
Each industrial school has its own record with alphabetical listings of names.
In early years these Rolls include various institutions:
Kohimarama
Howe Street (Auckland)
St Marys (Auckland)
St Stephens (Auckland)
Auckland Girls
[...]
---
The 1887 rolls would be...
http://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=12026628 (http://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=12026628)
Might be worth a look-up request. I have a feeling the indexes to CW 14 have been transcribed and are on the Kiwi CD so that would save the looker-upper a little bit of time.
KHP?
Regards
Beg
One of the newspaper articles stated that Elizabeth had 4 children at St. Mary's Orphanage.
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Both John Goodwin and Henry Joseph gave their occupations as "seamen" on their WW1 attestation papers,they may have got their training at the Industrial School
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=TC18750518.2.16
Cheers Janette
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The school closing
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=THA18921231.2.21
Cheers Janette
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Both John Goodwin and Henry Joseph gave their occupations as "seamen" on their WW1 attestation papers,they may have got their training at the Industrial School
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=TC18750518.2.16
Cheers Janette
Just had a read, interesting....can you imagine calling anyone an embryo larrikin now a days LOL
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A couple of additional things.
The sister Rose may have married someone with the last name Whitley.
The Miss White that was the NOK on Henry's army records apparently took in the 2 if not 3 of the children when they were older. There was some sort of disagreement when Miss or Mrs White died and someone (perhaps a lawyer) ran off with her money.
This is just stories from the family so I'm not sure how much is correct.
Henry did name one of his children Agnes....presumably after Mrs. White.
Rose may have ended up living in Dunedin.
Thanks, Paula
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The sister Rose may have married someone with the last name Whitley.
Rose may have ended up living in Dunedin.
A Rose Hyacinth FITZPATRICK married a Wilson George Benjamin WHITLEY in 1922.
BDM NZ Marriages
1922/5326 - Rose Hyacinth FITZPATRICK to Wilson George Benjamin WHITLEY
---
A Rose H WHITLEY aged 69 years died 28 Oct 1969. Her ashes are scattered at Andersons Bay cemetery, Dunedin.
http://tinyurl.com/pbsolwh (http://tinyurl.com/pbsolwh)
A Wilson George WHITLEY of the same last address as Rose H WHITLEY is also listed on the website
http://tinyurl.com/oovxors (http://tinyurl.com/oovxors)
Regards
Beg
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Hi Paula
I didn't get time to post earlier today but had found the Rose WHITLEY also.
(Miss) Agnes Cecilia WHITE (born in Ireland - probably Co. Wicklow) came to New Zealand as a young child with her parents, Thomas and Sarah Jane WHITE, and three sisters. [Edit: One of her three sisters appears to have been born in NZ c. 1862 ] Agnes remained a spinster and died in Auckland in 1937. [It was via her will that I had found mention of Rose WHITLEY.]
Her will makes interesting reading, the beneficiaries of whom were >
Harry Joseph FITZPATRICK
John George FITZPATRICK
Jack White FITZPATRICK
Rose WHITLEY
Agnes Cecilia FITZPATRICK
Joan Grahame WHITE
Jack White FITZPATRICK
Henrietta PURCHASE
Pansy WRIGHT [ Henrietta Mary PURCHASE & Pansy Hilda WRIGHT appear to have been sisters ]
Robert Thurlow WHITE
Owen Connor WHITE
Mary GRAHAME
[So some of the above names will be familiar to you ? ]
And yes, the Will of Agnes was challenged some years after her death (1941) ... there are newspaper reports of same.
I'll add the link for the Probate file, so you can read the Will. There is one rather touching letter from John George FITZPATRICK. ;)
Had thought initially that there may have been some family connection between the FITZPATRICKs and the WHITEs, but having also viewed the Will of Sarah Jane WHITE, I think that is not the case.
~ Lu
Edit: ^ To add new information since found.
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New Zealand Probate Records - @ familysearch.org
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1865481
> scroll down to "Browse through ... images"
> click on link "Auckland Court"
> select "Probate Records 1937 -- P701/37-P730/37
The file for Agnes Cecilia WHITE is Archives New Zealand Reference number, 712/1937 .
Because I've already viewed this, can tell you the Will commences at Image No. 132.
[Adjust the number in the box at top screen. ]
~ Lu
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New Zealand Probate Records - @ familysearch.org
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1865481
> scroll down to "Browse through ... images"
> click on link "Auckland Court"
> select "Probate Records 1937 -- P701/37-P730/37
The file for Agnes Cecilia WHITE is Archives New Zealand Reference number, 712/1937 .
Because I've already viewed this, can tell you the Will commences at Image No. 132.
[Adjust the number in the box at top screen. ]
~ Lu
Wow.....you ladies here are AMAZING
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Hi Paula
I didn't get time to post earlier today but had found the Rose WHITLEY also.
(Miss) Agnes Cecilia WHITE (born in Ireland - probably Co. Wicklow) came to New Zealand as a young child with her parents, Thomas and Sarah Jane WHITE, and three sisters. Agnes remained a spinster and died in Auckland in 1937. [It was via her will that I had found mention of Rose WHITLEY.]
Her will makes interesting reading, the beneficiaries of whom were >
Harry Joseph FITZPATRICK
John George FITZPATRICK
Jack White FITZPATRICK
Rose WHITLEY
Agnes Cecilia FITZPATRICK
Joan Grahame WHITE
Jack White FITZPATRICK
Henrietta PURCHASE
Pansy WRIGHT [ Henrietta Mary PURCHASE & Pansy Hilda WRIGHT appear to have been sisters ]
Robert Thurlow WHITE
Owen Connor WHITE
Mary GRAHAME
[So some of the above names will be familiar to you ? ]
And yes, the Will of Agnes was challenged some years after her death (1941) ... there are newspaper reports of same.
I'll add the link for the Probate file, so you can read the Will. There is one rather touching letter from John George FITZPATRICK. ;)
Had thought initially that there may have been some family connection between the FITZPATRICKs and the WHITEs, but having also viewed the Will of Sarah Jane WHITE, I think that is not the case.
~ Lu
Yes many of the names are familiar.
Harry seemed to have named quite a few of his children after Agnes and her family. She must have a had a great influence on them.
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In case you're interested in Sarah Jane WHITE (the mother of Agnes), here's the link to her Probate file. Have to say I found her to be a fascinating character ... and there's much to be had in newspapers if you search on "sarah jane white" at our paperspast website. She died in Auckland in 1886.
Sometimes there is a direct link to accessing NZ Probate files at familysearch.org -- but in the case of these WHITE ladies, it's necessary to firstly find the Probate reference numbers on the Archives NZ website, and then spend time browsing through images until you strike the correct one. ;D
So, just use the link and and instructions provided for Agnes's record (above).
Sarah Jane WHITE - Probate record held at Auckland Court - ref. no. 1562 - year 1886
Starts at Image no. 30.
~ Lu
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In case you're interested in Sarah Jane WHITE (the mother of Agnes), here's the link to her Probate file. Have to say I found her to be a fascinating character ... and there's much to be had in newspapers if you search on "sarah jane white" at our paperspast website. She died in Auckland in 1886.
Sometimes there is a direct link to accessing NZ Probate files at familysearch.org -- but in the case of these WHITE ladies, it's necessary to firstly find the Probate reference numbers on the Archives NZ website, and then spend time browsing through images until you strike the correct one. ;D
So, just use the link and and instructions provided for Agnes's record (above).
Sarah Jane WHITE - Probate record held at Auckland Court - ref. no. 1562 - year 1886
Starts at Image no. 30.
~ Lu
Thank you so much, these are so interesting to read. Do you have any information on the contesting of the will of Agnes?
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Mmm ... I got the feeling through researching the WHITE family, that maybe Agnes was "estranged" from her sisters ?? [None of her sister's children, are in included in the Will ? Also a
brother-in-law, nephew Mr Reginald MICHAELS, appears to have been instrumental in challenging Agnes's Will. ]
I have info for the sisters, if you'd like it.
Is does certainly seem though that Agnes was especially fond of the FITZPATRICK children and their offspring ... so perhaps they became "her family" ?
~ Lu
Edit: Correction to above - re: name / relationship.
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Yes, can help you with info re: contesting of will.
Just need to find the reference amongst my scribbled notes. ;D
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Mmm ... I got the feeling through researching the WHITE family, that maybe Agnes was "estranged" from her sisters ?? [None of her sister's children, are in included in the Will ? Also a brother-in-law, Mr MICHAELS, appears to have been instrumental in challenging Agnes's Will. ]
I have info for the sisters, if you'd like it.
Is does certainly seem though that Agnes was especially fond of the FITZPATRICK children and their offspring ... so perhaps they became "her family" ?
~ Lu
Seems that their birth mother Elizabeth wasn't much of a mother to them so perhaps Agnes took them under her wing.
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http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
"New Zealand Herald" (Auckland) - 7 October 1941 - OBJECT OF WILL
[search on "agnes cecilia white". ]
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I have ordered the Death printout for Eliza Fitzpatrick that was buried in Hamilton East Cemetery that died in 1939. Keeping my fingers crossed that that will give me some more details on the lady.
I have obtained some photos of Harry (Henry) and Meta's wedding. Rose is also in the photo.
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I have received Eliza's death cert. It's not much help at all. Parents are listed as just last names.
She died in Waikato Hospital of coronary thrombosis and senility. States she was 85 yrs when she died. Not sure if that would have made her too old to have the children.
Darn was hoping I would find something on here.
Any other ideas ladies?
thanks, Paula
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Any other ideas ladies?
Not all Ladies on here, unless Beg has changed his gender ;D
Cheers
KHP
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I have received Eliza's death cert. It's not much help at all. Parents are listed as just last names.
She died in Waikato Hospital of coronary thrombosis and senility. States she was 85 yrs when she died. Not sure if that would have made her too old to have the children.
Darn was hoping I would find something on here.
Hi Paula
I'm guessing there are no ages given for any children of this woman Eliza ??
* Are her parents listed as surname "FITZPATRICK" ???
* Are "years in New Zealand " noted on the death record ??
~ Lu
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Any other ideas ladies?
Not all Ladies on here, unless Beg has changed his gender ;D
Cheers
KHP
Sorry any other ideas you lovely people.
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I have received Eliza's death cert. It's not much help at all. Parents are listed as just last names.
She died in Waikato Hospital of coronary thrombosis and senility. States she was 85 yrs when she died. Not sure if that would have made her too old to have the children.
Darn was hoping I would find something on here.
Hi Paula
I'm guessing there are no ages given for any children of this woman Eliza ??
* Are her parents listed as surname "FITZPATRICK" ???
* Are "years in New Zealand " noted on the death record ??
~ Lu
Hi Lu,
Just saw this reply mixed up amongst the other things. Yes her parents are listed as FITZPATRICK, it does not show years in NZ on the death record. Both that and the where born section have a line through them.
Any ideas?
THanks, Paula
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I have received Eliza's death cert. It's not much help at all. Parents are listed as just last names.
She died in Waikato Hospital of coronary thrombosis and senility. States she was 85 yrs when she died. Not sure if that would have made her too old to have the children.
Darn was hoping I would find something on here.
Any other ideas ladies?
thanks, Paula
Hi ... you didn't mention whether the death printout listed any "living issue" for this woman ??
~ Lu
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I have received Eliza's death cert. It's not much help at all. Parents are listed as just last names.
She died in Waikato Hospital of coronary thrombosis and senility. States she was 85 yrs when she died. Not sure if that would have made her too old to have the children.
Darn was hoping I would find something on here.
Any other ideas ladies?
thanks, Paula
Hi ... you didn't mention whether the death printout listed any "living issue" for this woman ??
~ Lu
Hi Lu,
It is not showing any living issue. There is a line through the section.
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s
Hi ... you didn't mention whether the death printout listed any "living issue" for this woman ??
~ Lu
[/quote]
Hi Lu,
It is not showing any living issue. There is a line through the section.
[/quote]
I have subsequently ordered Henry Joseph's death certificate. This does not shed any light on the subject.
I have just now ordered John Goodwin FITZPATRICK's birth certificate. Keeping my fingers crossed that this is helpful.
Thanks, Paula
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Hi Paula
I did spend some time after your recent post, going back over "FITZPATRICK" and trying to see if there was more info for Elizabeth / Lizzie. It takes a bit of time ... and sideways thinking - and unfortunately I've not really come up with anything new.
I think you've made a good decision to obtain the birth record for John Goodwin FITZPATRICK (hope you remembered to order the "printout" of this - rather than a certificate - as this generally gives the best available details. ;)
Look forward to learning what the record contains.
~ Lu
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Hi Paula
I did spend some time after your recent post, going back over "FITZPATRICK" and trying to see if there was more info for Elizabeth / Lizzie. It takes a bit of time ... and sideways thinking - and unfortunately I've not really come up with anything new.
I think you've made a good decision to obtain the birth record for John Goodwin FITZPATRICK (hope you remembered to order the "printout" of this - rather than a certificate - as this generally gives the best available details. ;)
Look forward to learning what the record contains.
~ Lu
Hi Lu,
Yes I have ordered the printout for his birth certificate.
I've also been trying to find out if the Michael on the passenger list that we found for Elizabeth (not sure if our Elizabeth but seems likely) is related.
Just seems lots of coincidences with the people on the passenger list all being from the same place in Ireland.
Ship - Hudson arrived Wellington 14 Mar 1879
Single Males
Michael Fitzpatrick - 22
John Goodwin - 23
Cathe Goodwin -18
Eliz Fitzpatrick - 18
All from Fermanagh, Ireland
The age of Eliz is a bit off compared to the death cert that I found. Died 1939 age 85. But perhaps since there isn't any place of residence or even children listed, they didn't really know how old she was.
It sure seems to be a needle in a haystack.
Thanks for all your help.
Paula
Will post when I get John's BC and what it tells us.
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Hi Lu,
Got the printout of John's Birth cert.
He was born on 16 April 1894 in Ngaruawahia
Mother listed as Elizabeth Fitzpatrick age 30 Born in Kildare Ireland.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Paula
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Hi Paula
Cheers for that.
* Is an exact place of birth given ? (Rather than just Ngaruawahia)
* Is the name and address of informant to the birth given ??
~ Lu
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Hi Paula
Cheers for that.
* Is an exact place of birth given ? (Rather than just Ngaruawahia)
* Is the name and address of informant to the birth given ??
~ Lu
Hi Lu,
Place of birth is just listed as Ngaruawahia
The informant is Authorised Agent - T Cahill - Hamilton
Also on there is relationship details ( parents relationship - not in a legal relationship)
Thanks, Paula
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Will come back to this when I'm able ... working on a process of "elimination" at present.
~ Lu
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Searching for information on my husband's grandfather. Henry Joseph Fitzpatrick
I have that he was born about 1891 in Ngaruawahia, NZ and he died 4/11/1953.
I have from his marriage cert that his mother's name was Elizabeth Fitzpatrick but no father's name listed.
* From marriage cert., can you give, the place .... and also names of the marriage witnesses please ?
~ Lu
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I only have the marriage cert for Henry Joseph FITZPATRICK to Meta Mauvina May Elizabeth FERRY.
The place is: 19 Salvation Army Hall, Paeroa (not sure what the 19 is as it's on the line above Salvation Army hall.
The witnesses are: Allan Falls Millar, c/o Mr and Mrs McKenzie, Paeroa, Baker
Edith Elvina Ferry, Thames Road, Paeroa, Domestic Duties
Thank you so much,
Paula
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TV Fitzpatrick was my Great Grandfather. Lizzy died in childbirth. My Grandfather was Edwin Vicars Fitzpatrick who married Mary Clark. Their son Donald Vicars Fitzpatrick was my father. He had a brother Norrie and two sisters Cecil and Molly
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[...]
Ship - Hudson arrived Wellington 14 Mar 1879
Single Males
Michael Fitzpatrick - 22
John Goodwin - 23
Cathe Goodwin -18
Eliz Fitzpatrick - 18
All from Fermanagh, Ireland
Hi,
I'm newly registered and this caught my eye.
John (John James) & Catherine GOODWIN were siblings of my Great grandfather Patrick (c.1852 - c.1930) of Derryvore, Fermanagh (part of Crom landed estate, where Pat was the head boatman).
I believe those FITZPATRICK passengers on the Hudson might be their cousins as Patrick's mother was Margaret Fitzpatrick (1818 - 1901). Unfortunately, I have yet to research the Fitzpatrick branch.
regards
Michael
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I am researching my friends FH for her and family stories say that her Grandmother Elsie May Bradley born 1909 Whangarei was put in an orphanage as her parents George Bradley and Mary died young.
Has anyone any idea where to go to find these records?
Thanks Fiona
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Hi Fiona and Welcome to RootChat,
It would pay to start a new thread with "Elsie May Bradley born 1909 " as the heading.
This is a completed thread and may not get the same attention a new thread would get.
I;m sure we can help you find out more about Elsie May,
Cheers Janette
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Thanks for advising me.