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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: SteveKNS on Monday 22 June 15 08:55 BST (UK)
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My 4g grandfather, William Fowler, was a 1st lieutenant in the Royal Marines, his seniority dating from 1st Nov 1799. I don't have much information on him yet, but he was probably born about 1779 or earlier (he married in March 1800, and was of full age) and probably died about 1861 as he's not in Navy Lists after that year. He does appear in several earlier Navy Lists from 1814 onwards and he seems to have been put on General (or Reserved) Half-Pay from about 1815/16. None of the Navy List entries have any reference to a ship, so I'm not sure what his role would have been.
I also found an entry in the Coast Guard section of the Jan 1849 Navy List where he was said to be an Inspecting Lieutenant at West Cove, Tralee, Ireland, with a date of 28 Oct 1843. The year of service is given as 99 so I'm pretty sure I have the right man (the rank is also correct i.e. FLM=First Lieutenant of Marines).
I'm currently trawling through the Coast Guard records (ADM175) at the National Archives, but I was wondering whether anyone can provide insight into the relationship between the Marines and the Coast Guard, especially for officers in the Marines who were on the Reserved Half-Pay List.
I don't know where William was born (possibly in Ireland, according to family history notes passed down to me) but he lived in Kent for much of his life (he was living at Sandwich at the time of his marriage to Mary Ann Claringbold in 1800). One of his daughters, Eliza, married a French/Belgian innkeeper named Dekooninck at Dunkirk in 1840, so I was wondering whether his professional duties took him to Dunkirk at some point. Could William have been attached to the Kent Coast Guard as well? I believe William was a farmer in the Elham area of Kent, and there may be a connection with Kearsney Abbey, but I don't have any hard evidence for this yet (it's just mentioned in passing in a family letter).
In later life, William was apparently known as "Major Fowler" (I have a family letter that refers to him in this way), but I'm puzzled about this because I thought he would have needed to have had a rank of Captain to be awarded the rank of Major on retirement. Could "Major" be an affectation, or is it possible he was granted that rank when he retired? But that doesn't seem likely as he isn't in the lists of retired officers in the Navy Lists, so it looks as if he died whilst in the service - he would have been at least 82 years old in 1861.
Any insights or suggestions for further research would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Steve
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Excise as in Customs and Excise records might be useful too. They often had to call on the military for armed support against smugglers.
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Thanks for that - will add it to the list.
I'm also working through a list of all the William Fowlers listed at the National Archives to see if I can find anything else - just found one likely entry so far, a court case of 1807, John Claringbold vs William Fowler (William's wife was a Claringbold); will probably see if I can get a printed copy (it's not on-line)
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There was no formal link between the RM/RN and Coastguards, but officers who found themselves on half pay could seek employment with the Coastguard service. You have to understand that it was not until 1856 that the CG came under the control of the Admiralty, prior to this it was Customs.
I hope the following may speed up your research, it's a list of the references for the Coastguard records you need to consult, which starts in 1826 and ends in 1851. There is an earlier entry, but I was unable to read the name of the CG Station. So starting in 1826:
ADM 175/5 pdfs 276 and 272
ADM 175/6 pdf 344
ADM 175/16 pdf 296
ADM 175/18 pdfs 57, 89, 109 and 142
ADM 175/19 pdf 150
Martin
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Hi Steve
I have the 1850 Army List, which then included Royal Marine officers. According to this he was commissioned as the RM version of a Cornet (probably Sub-Lt) on 11 May 1796, was promoted Lt on 1 Nov 1797 (as you have it) and was put on half-pay 1 July 1802.
They do not include details of Coast Guards. It was common for officers on half-pay to take up part-time appointments. You could try the London Gazette archives. They may have some information.
Also, they did surveys of RM officers in 1822 and 1831. Details are in ADM 6 - see details on this link - http://nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/royalmarinesofficers.htm - which suggests they may give some biographical details.
I take it you have not found him in the 1841 or 1851 census, to confirm his age and place of birth?
Ken
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Steve
I have now managed to track him down. He first entered the CG Service in 1821 while living in Canterbury with a posting as a Probationer Chief Officer to Mersey Quarters (ADM 175/1 pdf 171) - the name I was unable to read.
Martin
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I have now managed to track him down.
Thanks, Martin - that's very helpful indeed - and many thanks also for the previous info on the ADM175 records; that saved me a lot of time searching down blind alleys.
It's also interesting what you say about William being in Canterbury in 1821 as I believe he was living with his daughter (Mary Ann) and son-in-law (John Nutt - the Canterbury Town Clerk) at that time.
Since posting my original request, I've discovered that William inherited Kearsney Court from his mother-in-law, Mary Ann Claringbold nee Paine, in 1807 (she died in August 1806). The estate administration states "Kearsney Court" but I think it was probably "Kearsney Court Farm" as the Kearsney estate was owned by the Fector banking family at that time. His father-in-law, Thomas Bryant Claringbold, died in 1801 and owned a farm just outside Sandwich, I believe. I also spotted signs of litigation in the chancery court between 1808 and 1810, so it's possible William had to sell Kearsney Court (Farm) to pay off his mother-in-law's creditors - I've asked for a record copying estimate from National Archives as the details are not on-line. It's pure speculation, but maybe William was forced to enter the CG due to losses in the chancery cases - I'll post a further update if I find out any more on this.
Thanks again,
Steve
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I have the 1850 Army List, which then included Royal Marine officers. According to this he was commissioned as the RM version of a Cornet (probably Sub-Lt) on 11 May 1796, was promoted Lt on 1 Nov 1797 (as you have it) and was put on half-pay 1 July 1802.
Thanks Ken - that's a great find. I had his date of seniority from the Navy Lists as 1st Nov 1799, so could he have been promoted to 2nd Lieutenant on 1st Nov 1797?
I haven't found William, or his wife, in the census returns yet and I have a sneaking suspicion that they may have lived in Dunkirk for a while (their daughter Eliza moved there about 1840 - she married a local innkeeper in October 1840). William's wife, Mary Ann, is thought to have died in Ostend sometime before 1867. I may have found William's death record, but I'm awaiting a copy of the death certificate from the GRO - a William Fowler died in the Jan-Mar quarter of 1861 at Elham, Kent, so that seemed worth a gamble (the family is known to have lived in the area at some time - his eldest daughter, Mary Ann, married John Nutt in 1818 at Elham, for example).
I'll check the London Gazette and ADM6 records, as you suggest and will report back if I find anything.
Thanks again,
Steve
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Remember there was peace between 1802 and 1803. Probably why he was put on half pay. He may well have been active again 1803/04. Army Lists?
Added: Were there 1st and 2nd Lieutenants? I thought the ranks were Lieutenant, Captain, Major etc, seniority being established by date of commission.
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Remember there was peace between 1802 and 1803. Probably why he was put on half pay. He may well have been active again 1803/04. Army Lists?
Added: Were there 1st and 2nd Lieutenants? I thought the ranks were Lieutenant, Captain, Major etc, seniority being established by date of commission.
The information was from 1850. So if he was active after 1802 they would give the last date he went onto half-pay.
The list covers all branches of the army and RMs, so they only the generic heading 'Cornet etc' and Lt. With 2nd Lt, Sub Lt, Cornet and Ensign being equal.
Ken
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The list covers all branches of the army and RMs, so they only the generic heading 'Cornet etc' and Lt. With 2nd Lt, Sub Lt, Cornet and Ensign being equal.
Thanks for the clarification, Ken - I've not delved much into military history until now, so I've learned a lot over the last day. I'm still a bit puzzled about why William Fowler was still in the RM right up until his early 80s, even though he wasn't on active service. From looking at the Navy List, it seems that there were quite a few "old-timers" on half-pay, so maybe that was a more attractive prospect than taking retirement? Or maybe he didn't qualify for a pension as it seems he'd been on half-pay for most of his career (since 1802).
Steve
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Unlike the army, where commissions were purchased, advancement in the Royal Navy was on merit, and a degree of patronage. This means that an army officer’s commission could be sold when he wanted to resign/retire generating quite large sums of money. In the navy an officer could resign his commission, but this meant relying on an alternative means of income, which was not always readily available to all but the wealthiest. As a result naval officers were placed on half-pay, this acted as a retainer, meaning if a post did became vacant they could be brought back onto the active list. So unless a man resigned or was Court Martialled he remained on half pay until his death.
Martin
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I have checked an Army List from the 1820s and the Royal Marines did not use Sub Lt. They had 2nd Lt and then 1st Lt. He is listed on half-pay as a 1st Lt.
As RN/RM commissions were not purchased a retiring officer had to stay on the H-P list.
Ken
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Thanks, Martin/Ken - I'd heard of the meritocracy in the Navy but wasn't sure whether this applied to the Marines. I'd also noticed that some very senior officers had retired on full pay, but that didn't seem to apply to the junior ranks. Much appreciate the clarifications - I understand now why William was in the RM for 60+ years. I guess it also explains why William remained a 1st Lieutenant for the remainder of his career i.e. if he wasn't on active service then he wouldn't have been able to gain enough experience to prove himself worthy of a promotion.
Steve
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Hi I'm a descendant of Thomas Bryant claringbold,willam fowlers father in law
And would like to know more about him as he would be a how ever many great
Uncle of mine.
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Hi Steve can't seem to send you private message will copy the roots chat info for now
I'm on ancestry I think?
all the best
Aaron janes
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Hi Steve
I haven't found William, or his wife, in the census returns yet and I have a sneaking suspicion that they may have lived in Dunkirk for a while (their daughter Eliza moved there about 1840 - she married a local innkeeper in October 1840). William's wife, Mary Ann, is thought to have died in Ostend sometime before 1867.
Do you have the marriage record of the daughter Eliza of Dunkirk and the death record of William's wife Mary Ann of Ostende? The marriage record could contain the place where her parents lived at that time and the occupation of her father.
I have just found the marriage entry at Dunkerque (Online Archives of the Archives
départementales du Nord) Dunkerque mariages 1830-1845, page 507 on the left side
http://www.archivesdepartementales.lenord.fr/?id=etat_civil
William Fowler, officier de la marine anglaise, demeurant à Cork en Irlande
Marie Anne Claringbold, décédée à Ostende
It also says that Eliza already had a child named André Thomas Fowler, born in Ostende, Flandern 17.12.1830.
Birth record of Andreas Thomas Fowler, Oostende 17.12.1830
https://www.oostende.be/file_uploads/17512.pdf
Death record of a person named Fowler 19.02.1830
I only saw it in the index but couldn't find the record.
There is a remark on the index which I can't decipher.
https://www.oostende.be/file_uploads/17711.pdf
I also searched for a death with surname Claringbold and found the following record:
20.03.1834 Marianna Clarington, born in Kent, England, wife of Henricus Fowler,
lieutenant of the "Engelsche See-Macht" what means the English Marine.
https://www.oostende.be/file_uploads/17715.pdf
Regards
Svenja
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Hi Aaron,
You should be ok now you have made a couple of posts ;)
Sarah
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Do you have the marriage record of the daughter Eliza of Dunkirk and the death record of William's wife Mary Ann of Ostende? The marriage record could contain the place where her parents lived at that time and the occupation of her father.
I have just found the marriage entry at Dunkerque (Online Archives of the Archives
départementales du Nord) Dunkerque mariages 1830-1845, page 507 on the left side
Thanks for that, Svenja - very helpful. I did receive some information from one of Eliza's Belgian descendants a year or so ago and his research is confirmed by your findings. But he did find another record that indicated that Andre Thomas Fowler was the son of Eliza's sister Catherine, so it's still a bit of a mystery - he believes that Andre Thomas died just a few months later on 30 April 1831.
He also found what we think is the death record of Eliza's mother (25 March 1834 at Ostend), but her name is shown as Marianna Clarington of Kent (as you found) and her partner was stated as Henricus Fowler of the Marines, so it's not conclusive. However, there was a death notice for Mary Ann in the 8 April 1834 issue of the Kentish Weekly Post - it didn't state the place of death, but the date is close enough to Marianna Clarington's death to make it likely they're the same people (Mary Ann's maiden name was Claringbold, which is close enough to Clarington if we allow for language/handwriting errors). It's harder to explain the Henricus Fowler name, though, as her husband's name was William (when Mary Ann died, he was commander of the coast guard station at Dugurth, County Mayo, Ireland); I'm wondering whether William had a brother named Henry and it was he who was present at the death of Mary Ann. But I've not been able to find out anything about William's parents or siblings.
I've since found that William Fowler died on 24 January 1862 near West Cove, County Kerry, Ireland - he'd been the commander of the local coast guard station at West Cove since 1843. Two of his unmarried daughters, Jane and Charlotte, were living with him and were the only beneficiaries of his will.
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Hi Steve
But he did find another record that indicated that Andre Thomas Fowler was the son of Eliza's sister Catherine, so it's still a bit of a mystery - he believes that Andre Thomas died just a few months later on 30 April 1831.
The birth record I found also says that the mother was a Catherine Fowler. But the son mentionned in Eliza's marriage record at Dunkerque was still living when she married.
Regards
Svenja
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The birth record I found also says that the mother was a Catherine Fowler. But the son mentionned in Eliza's marriage record at Dunkerque was still living when she married.
Thanks Svenja - that is interesting. As far as we know, Catherine never married - she died on 10 January 1866 at Dunkerque. Her sister Eliza died the following year, also at Dunkerque, on 6 June 1867. It seems unlikely that both sisters would have had sons named Andre Thomas, but it's hard to explain otherwise. Maybe the father was the same for both - stranger things have happened... Also, a 3rd sister (Sophia) apparently lived with Eliza and Catherine at Rue du Moulin à Poudre - she died at Dunkerque on 16 June 1867; she had previously married William Coleman but I have no further details for him. When Eliza married Joseph Ignace Dekooninck at Dunkerque on 24 October 1840 his occupation was innkeeper, so maybe he had an inn in the Rue du Moulin à Poudre.
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Hi Steve,
I am researching the connection between my family the Vaughans of Sneem and their connection with the Needhams. I came across a Fanny Needham. She married a Joseph Farnley, coast guard officer in Coad near Sneem. When Fanny died Joseph married Charlotte the daughter of William Fowler, a coast guard officer in Coad. William died in January 1862. Joseph and Charlotte married in April 1862.
Lt. William Fowlers death is reported in the Cork Examiner. He died on the 25th of January 1862 at 84 years of age. He is described as a member of the Royal Marines, late inspecting officer of the coast guard in the West Cove district.
William made his will in 1844 and he left his estate to his two daughters, Jane and Charlotte.
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Thanks John - yes, that partly matches what I've found out about Charlotte; she married Joseph Fearnley on 24th April 1862 at Templenoe, County Kerry. I don't know what happened to her sister Jane, though. William's will was proved on 26th April 1862 and he left effects worth less than £100 to Charlotte and Jane; his other children were not mentioned.
If you have an Ancestry account then you might like to look at the Royal Marines and Coast Guard records that I've used to piece together William's interesting career. Search for William Fowler b. 1778 in the Nutt-Smith Family Tree. He may have been born in Ireland but I haven't found any evidence yet - just a scrawled note that said he may have been Irish (which may have been wrongly assumed as he spent the last 30 years of his life in Ireland).
If you don't have an Ancestry account then you can create a free guest account (with limited functionality) here: https://support.ancestry.co.uk/s/article/Ancestry-Guest-Registration-1460088565395
I have also found what I believe to be the original Coast Guard cottage at West Cove; see Google StreetView: https://goo.gl/maps/jHR7vdWJCaw
Hope that helps,
Steve