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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Glinny on Saturday 27 June 15 22:24 BST (UK)

Title: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: Glinny on Saturday 27 June 15 22:24 BST (UK)
Hi all. New to this site, and very hopeful after reading some posts, that someone will be able to point me in the right direction!

Trying to trace Donegan family from Dublin. Managed to find My grandmother -Mary Ellen Donegan and her parents James and Mary Donegan on the 1911 census in Dublin....buts that's as far as it goes. Can anyone give me some advice on where to be looking next please?
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: ballydw on Saturday 27 June 15 22:34 BST (UK)
Hi & welcome to rootschat.  You could look at www.irishgenealogy.ie which has Baptism/marriage church records for Dublin :)
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 27 June 15 22:54 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat  :)

For reference here's the family in 1911-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Mansion_House/Digges_Street__Upper/100637

James born Co. Wicklow and Mary born Co.Galway and married 2 years so c1909.

If you are trying to trace the family back further you need to do it step-by-step. Mary Ellen's birth certificate will list mother's maiden name and then you can start searching for parents' marriage. Once you've the marriage you should, hopefully, have their fathers names & occupations.
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: Glinny on Saturday 27 June 15 23:41 BST (UK)
Thank you for the swift replies. I tried http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/, but no success there.

I will research how to obtain a birth certificate for Mary Ellen Donegan, and hopefully be able to move forward.

Thanks again for the advice
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: Sinann on Sunday 28 June 15 00:36 BST (UK)
You may not find her as Mary Ellen, it might just be Mary.
If her age of 1 is correct, (she may have been almost 1 or almost 2) than she was born on or before April 1910.
Have a look at these As possibles http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fjy/
Also try this site https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list/?page=1&countryId=1927084

how to order the Birth Cert?
See here
https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Apply-for-Certificates.aspx
Don't worry about parts of the form you can't fill in, just be sure to give the Name, Quarter, District, Vol and Page Number.
Get a Research Cert
And include your Email to receive it that way.
It costs 4.
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: Glinny on Sunday 28 June 15 15:16 BST (UK)
Hello. Thank you so much for the info.

I think you have found Mary Ellen Donegan. Her birth date was 13th April, and 1 of the entries on the page has a Mary Donegan, born 12 April mothers surname Brennan.

Do you think I would be ok to go with that? Or are should I avoid going with birth dates?

I will order the birth certificate anyhow. Thank you once again. Been bashing my head off a brick wall for weeks!!!

Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: Sinann on Sunday 28 June 15 16:02 BST (UK)
I was thinking that one as well, but I can't see a Donegan Brennan marriage which is bugging me, I can't see a James Donegan marriage to a Mary, I wonder if they could have married outside Ireland.
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: Sinann on Sunday 28 June 15 19:51 BST (UK)
Glinny and I exchanged a few PM in relation to this family following up on that there is a Mary and James Donegan at 3 Lower Dominick St. In the electoral rolls 1939-45, don't see him after that, Mary up to 1951.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fkd/

I don't know why they are not listed in sequence or if it means anything.

Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 28 June 15 22:15 BST (UK)
Hi Glinny

Was Dominick Street an address that you were aware of your Grandmother living at ?

Were there any other address' mentioned that might be worth following up on ?

I can't see a good James Donegan marriage in the 32 counties ~ given that James and Mary were from other counties it's possible they were transient at the time and may not have registered it  ???

Tara
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 28 June 15 22:17 BST (UK)
If Dominick Street is being followed up on, then is it with regards to James being from Kiltegan ?

Tara
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 28 June 15 22:24 BST (UK)
This wold be James' birth, presuming the Dominic Street family is the correct one !

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F58J-34M

Tara
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 28 June 15 22:31 BST (UK)
Siblings to James Donegan !

Mary Margaret 1864
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FRQG-VR6

Margaret 1866
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F51V-868

Ellen 1867
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPYK-5JM

John 1869
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5MQ-W2R

Teresa 1871 (a twin of James)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F58G-BLG

Michael 1873 (went to US) ~ he's on 1901 Census in Dublin !
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FRQG-VR6

Francis 1874
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5JT-6LN

There could be earlier children to 1864 but that's when civil registration began.

Again, above is presuming that the Dominic Street connection is correct !

Tara

Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 28 June 15 22:44 BST (UK)
OOOPPS

Sorry !

Scratch Michael Donegan & Mary Healy being James' parents and hence all the siblings.

James' father would have to have been called James !

The James from Dominic Street had a brother called Michael and this is his marriage to Bridget Donnelly !

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/f985780433513

Tara
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 28 June 15 22:48 BST (UK)
Children of Michael Donegan & Bridget Donnelly !

Michael 1886
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/79c7cc0255447

Bridget 1891
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/a466c50260462

Joseph 1889
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/ff72800258528

Mary Anne 1885
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/3811870254381

James 1883
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/2dcb710252365

John 1887
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/54d4980256491

Tara
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 28 June 15 22:51 BST (UK)
This then looks to be the birth of James of Dominic Street then !

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPYC-74C

Sister Margaret

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPB3-CNL

Sister Sarah

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FR9V-24F

Tara
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 28 June 15 22:52 BST (UK)
James' brother Michael in 1901 !

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/feedback/1901/Dublin/New_Kilmainham/St__James__Place/1290291/

James is also listed at this address on 'other' records !

Tara
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 28 June 15 23:01 BST (UK)
A long shot but a possible sister of James getting married !

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/c776920446314

Tara
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 28 June 15 23:01 BST (UK)
James' brother Michael in 1911 !

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/New_Kilmainham/St__James_s_Place/32042/

Tara
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 28 June 15 23:19 BST (UK)
YEAH !

I found the marriage of Mary Brennan and James Donegan ~

James was mistranscribed a JANE  ;D ;D ;D

http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/8ff15d6584161

Tara
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: Sinann on Monday 29 June 15 00:19 BST (UK)
Just in case there are any problems ordering that cert with it having Jane rather that James it could be a good idea to have the Vol and Page numbers
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYDW-SQS
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYD4-9XS

Interesting that FamilySearch has him as Jane J. Could his name be Jane James!

I've read on other posts usually in relation to UK certs that you must order as per any transcription error not as you know how it should read, would the same apply in this case?
Perhaps a note on the order form would be a good idea?
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 29 June 15 00:26 BST (UK)
I would just order it under the Mary Brennan attachment and details ~ I'd imagine that should do the trick  ;D

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYD4-9XS

Tara
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 29 June 15 09:34 BST (UK)
Hi

Sinann referred to the Electoral Roll.

The James Donegan on it must be the son of James Donegan and Mary Brennan.

James Donegan (the one married to Mary Brennan) died in 1937, aged 59, and is buried in Glasnevin Cemetery.

Tara
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 29 June 15 09:39 BST (UK)
Donegan is not the most common surname in Dublin.

Michael, James' brother was in Dublin and was a carpenter from Wicklow.

There is a chap called Patrick Donegan, also a carpenter from Wicklow and living in Dublin in 1901.

Just wondering might he be Michael & James' brother ?

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Mansion_House/Mercer_Street_Upper/1343478/

Tara
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 29 June 15 09:57 BST (UK)
James Donegan and Mary Brennan were arrested in Mullingar in 1914.

Tara
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 29 June 15 10:08 BST (UK)
A child called Bridget Donegan !

http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/f5ca2d0269838

Tara
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 29 June 15 10:09 BST (UK)
A child called James Donegan !

http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/201c140143472

Tara
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: Glinny on Monday 29 June 15 12:14 BST (UK)
Hi Tara, you have done so much work thank you.

Can I ask what they were arrested for? And how did you find/ get that info? I'm just starting out with the research, so learning as I go along!
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 29 June 15 13:59 BST (UK)
Find My Past are doing a months world subscription at the mo for a Euro.

Tomorrow is the last day for the deal.

If you do again be sure to unclick auto renew subscription.

Anyway, the families prison records are on the site.

Tara
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: Glinny on Monday 28 November 16 00:18 GMT (UK)
Hi. Now the Donegan side is having my eyes out!!!!!

I am totally stuck. If anyone would be kind enough to help me, please send me a message and I'll give you more details. Basically need someone to start at the beginning for me, and see if they hit the same brick walls.

Thanks all
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: Sinann on Monday 28 November 16 00:43 GMT (UK)
Did you get the Certs, they are free online now.
1911 http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Mansion_House/Digges_Street__Upper/100637
James and Mary Donegan and child Mary Ellen.
Mary Ellen birth 12 April 1910 mother Brennan.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1910/01572/1633945.pdf
James married Mary July 4 1909
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1909/10027/5647208.pdf
His father is James, hers is Matthew.
So did you get any further than that?
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: Glinny on Monday 28 November 16 08:14 GMT (UK)
Hi Sinann, I'm so glad you replied. Yes, got all that. I've gone further with the Brennan side with no problem. I'm stuck with Donegan. As you might remember, there was a prison record from 1923 for James, but I'm struggling for James birth (knowing which is the correct one) I see 2 James Donegan who could potentially be linked, but can't work out which is correct.
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: Sinann on Monday 28 November 16 10:02 GMT (UK)
Did you find any siblings for James?
What are the two births you can't decide between.

I was having a look at the 1901 Census last night and found this James.
I know his age and surname is out a bit but that wouldn't be unusual.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/South_City/Fownes_Place/1304926/
I had a look for a marriage for this woman,her husband was Daniel and her father James.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1887/10819/5945862.pdf
There is an Elizabeth Roche as a witness on your James marriage.
Could he be one of the births you found?
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: Sinann on Monday 28 November 16 21:13 GMT (UK)
I was trying to find this Mary Anne Ro(a)che in 1911 and found this family living on the same street as James.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Mansion_House/Digges_Street__Upper/100586/
It appeared to fit the 1901 family except for the daughter Alice in 1901 is missing but there is an Elizabeth, so I had a look for her birth.
Elizabeth Alice was born to Daniel Roche and Mary Anne Donegan in 1890
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1890/02410/1898563.pdf

This Elizabeth is very likely the witness on James' marriage.

If only we could find a birth for Mary Anne I think we will find James as well.

Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: Sinann on Monday 28 November 16 21:34 GMT (UK)
Couple of interesting baptisms here where a James Donegan is sponsor.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ixg/


I haven't found them in the census but wonder if Jane Owens/Donegan could be another sister. (The last one)

Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: Glinny on Friday 02 December 16 23:40 GMT (UK)
Sinann, I've pm'd you
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: Sinann on Saturday 03 December 16 15:41 GMT (UK)
Sinann, I've pm'd you

by sending the links to those births by PM you are stopping others helping you, it is much better to keep everything in the one place.
I just post them here if I was you.
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: Glinny on Saturday 03 December 16 19:52 GMT (UK)
This is the birth that I though was good https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03373/2236829.pdf

Then I found another https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1894/02250/1846846.pdf

If the second one is correct, that would make him 15 when he married. I'm constantly finding differences with age, so wouldn't rule anything out.

Can anyone help please?
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: Glinny on Sunday 04 December 16 16:03 GMT (UK)
This is the birth that I though was good https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03373/2236829.pdf

Then I found another https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1894/02250/1846846.pdf

If the second one is correct, that would make him 15 when he married. I'm constantly finding differences with age, so wouldn't rule anything out.

Can anyone help please?
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: Sinann on Sunday 04 December 16 21:17 GMT (UK)
Can't find a birth cert for Mary Anne Donegan, but she married in Rathvilly church so I'm having a look at the Rathvilly church register, images are difficult in places but have found the 1869 James mother Byrne
bottom of left hand page
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634565#page/94/mode/1up
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: Sinann on Sunday 04 December 16 21:50 GMT (UK)
They had a daughter Sarah in 1865
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634565#page/80/mode/1up

Found a Mary A 1863, which is a bit early but other wise good.
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634565#page/73/mode/1up
March 1 right hand page

and a Bridget 1873
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1873/03211/2177451.pdf
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634565#page/105/mode/1up
Left hand page.

Very large gaps between all these children for the time.
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: Sinann on Sunday 04 December 16 23:13 GMT (UK)
The other James Donegan birth mother Nicholson has a sister Winfred
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1896/02150/1815809.pdf
They are both with their parents in 1901 and 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wicklow/Humewood/Kiltegan/1809502/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Rathmichael/Ballyman/93196/
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: Glinny on Sunday 04 December 16 23:22 GMT (UK)
Thanks Sinann.

Brilliant. So that rules the later birth for James Donegan out then?

I think I have found another sister- Margaret born 1867. https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1867/03485/2281462.pdf
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: Sinann on Monday 05 December 16 01:04 GMT (UK)
This family looks good, but how to prove it is the correct one is the problem.
James married in the Church of the Three Patrons.
http://www.rathgarparish.ie/parish-churches/the-church-of-the-three-patrons/
Which is in Rathgar parish.
But their records are not online
https://www.johngrenham.com/records/rc_church.php?churchid=0531&parish=Rathgar
I don't know if the church register would have anymore information than the civil cert but I can't see anywhere else to try at this stage.
That's even if they would be willing to help.
Title: Re: Donegan. Dublin
Post by: Glinny on Tuesday 06 December 16 20:09 GMT (UK)
Sinann, once again I send my thanks to you.

 I too don't know where else to try, but I'm going to go through everything again and hopefully haven't missed anything. Thank you