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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ayrshire => Topic started by: Shug65 on Tuesday 30 June 15 14:25 BST (UK)
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Hi there,
I'm trying to find information on my gran Helen jack nee Henderson, she was born Mary Jeffrey in Irvine, to an unmarried mother, she was adopted, and ended up in Cambuslang. Would love to know if her mum had any more children, if I have another family somewhere.
Don't really know where to start, since she was adopted.
Many thanks
Sandra
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat
When was your gran born and is she still alive?
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She was born 1911 or there abouts. She died in 1954.
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Hi
Thanks for that info. A starting point is your grans birth cert to find her mothers name (unless you already have it) but I cannot see any birth between 1905-1915 for a Mary Jeffries in Ayrshire but there is a match for a Helen Henderson in Ayrshire (not Irvine) in 1911
www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
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Hi Carole,
Thanks for looking.
I have her birth cert, her name was Mary Jeffrey (not Jeffries, sorry, should have looked at the info first) she was born 19th October 1911, died 18 Jan 1957. Her mother was Agnes Jeffrey from 7 Montgomery St Irvine. Her grandfather registered the birth, he was John Jeffrey.
Many thanks
Sandra
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Hi Sandra
Mary was born at 15 Hill Street, Irvine her grandfather's address was Montgomery Street.
Rustypup
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Thanks Rustypup
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Hi All :)
Sandra, you have some hard facts there to start to work with which is great. From what has been discussed, am I right in saying that Agnes, mother of Mary b. 1911, was the daughter of a John Jeffrey. He reported Mary's birth on 19th October 1911 giving his address as 7 Montgomery St Irvine. Mary was born at another address in Irvine.
Have you tried looking for Agnes and father John on the 1911 census? This would have been before Mary was born later that year. You might find Agnes at home to let you confirm her family details etc. We need to find this info on Agnes, including her birth year.
The Valuation Rolls for 1905 and 1915 might also help if Agnes' family were also in Irvine. This is the online search on Scotlands People. If you are more local to Ayrshire, you can do local personal searches to help you narrow down the years.
Would be good for you to be able to confirm who Agnes's family was, including her mother's name etc.
Monica
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As always, with such amazing details, see http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/warmemscot-post-70344.html
The Glasgow Herald, Friday, 12th. October, 1917.
"Deaths on Service.
JEFFREY.- Killed in action, on 20th September, Lance-Corpl. John A. Jeffrey, Sherwood Foresters, aged 24, the dearly beloved nephew of the Misses Jeffrey, 7 Montgomery Street, Irvine."
Have a look at the full entry, which includes further details.
When you read, could the Miss Jane Jeffrey be a sister to you Agnes?
Monica
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Mmmm...not sure if Jeanie was sister to Agnes given these notes here http://hainings.net/2/24197.htm
Monica
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For 1911 at least, I think this is likely Agnes with her family, living at 7 Montgomery Street:
John Jeffrey, 59 Traveller (sewing machines) b. Kilwinning Ayrshire
Euphemia Jeffrey 55 (married 37 years, 11 children, 8 Living) b. Kilwinning Ayrshire
James Jeffrey 23 plumber b America US
Agnes Jeffrey 21 shop assistant (confections) b America US
Bella Jeffrey 17 shop assistant (tobacconists) b. Fergushill Ayrshire
John Jeffrey 8 b. Paisley
John Strathdee, visitor 5 b. Irvine
Can't see the obvious connection to the Miss Jeanie Jeffrey living there in mid/late 1910s from what we have. There may or may not be one, needs to be confirmed.
The most important time for you is the family at the time of the 1911 census, with father John and daughter Agnes. This looks very much like your Mary/Helen's maternal family I think.
Monica
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With the reference to Kilwinning as the birth place for John and wife Euphemia, there is this possible marriage in August 1873 just before they gave birth to daughter Mary in January 1874 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYPD-3B2
Monica
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Struggle after 1911 to find anything on the family :-\ Always a good way to start is to look for married women's deaths as you can search with both maiden and married surnames to narrow down results etc. Not seeing anything on Euphemia at all in Scotland.... Wonder whether they may have left Scotland at some point after 1911?
ADDED: Just found this, www.robertwhitton.eu/person.php?id=4489&pat=McLean&fam=2 Click on Agnes' name and you get http://www.robertwhitton.eu/person.php?id=4487&fam=2&pat=Jeffrey
The marriage to David Whitton does show on SP in Monkton and Prestwick, Ayrshire, Ref 606/00 0001 (I haven't viewed the image, just the index).
Not clear how the website owner is connected to Agnes and at least one daughter mentioned. You can follow up on the site and hopefully get some answers there...
Monica :)
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Hi
1901 census at Bridgend Kilwinning
Mary McLean 76 coal miner's widow
Maggie McLean dau 34 b Kilwinning
James Currie lodger 22
John Jeffrey son in law 49 b Kilwinning Siggers Co Asst Supd (Should this be Singers as in sewing machines?].
Euphemia Jeffrey Granddaughter (surely should be daughter) 45 b Kilwinning
Isabella Jeffrey Granddaughter 7 b Kilwinning
William
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;) Hurray, well done, William! Agree, Singer's makes sense given what we have in 1911.
Now to hunt for James and Agnes....
Just been looking for the shipping manifest details from 1923. Can see David Whitton's arrival in June 1923, from Glasgow on the 'Athenia'. Aged 32, wife Agnes and born in Edinburgh. An Engineer by trade. Had been in Canada before and gave his brother in law's details as contact address.
Added: This manifest is on separate individual sheets. Daughter Euphemia, 3 and a half years old and born in Prestwick shows with the same details of arrival in 1923. Think Agnes sheet is just not imaged or has been misplaced/lost. Certainly the three look to have travelled together.
Monica
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1891
Kilwinning
John Jeffrey 4o coalminer
Euphemia 35
John 14
Mary 12
Catherine 9
Jane 7
James 6
Agnes 2
Only Jane james and Agnes born in USA.
1901
Mary, Catherine, Jane , James and Agnes are recorded with Robert and Jessie Leggatt at 9 Walker Street, Paisley. They have been transcribed as children of this couple. (Think I will try another transcription!).
William
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For father John, can't blame him can we for leaving coal mining :-\....going on to sales (traveller) for Singers by 1911. From what I have seen from the link I posted above, when Agnes married David Whitton, her father John showing as being a Hotel Manager...somewhere ::)
Monica
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I think they all ended up in Canada, Monica. I have found a death for Euphemia Jeffrey in Toronto 15 Jan 1936, age 81. Dob May 2nd 1855. Parents James McLean and Mary McKelvie. The informant was her son, John.
And for John Jeffrey. He died 5 Jan 1924 Born 12 June 1851 - retired traveller, sewing machines. Father named as Joseph Jeffrey. Address 45 Earnscliff Road, Toronto. Informant son James.
There are also marriages for Isabella 19 Oct 1921 in Toronto to James Brown McLaren and Catherine 19 Aug 1922 to William Fletcher Reid.
William
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Great research, William :) Certainly looks like a lot of the family ended up in Canada. Just found a number of busy family trees on a/try/ None of them show John Snr's death, so great you found that. Think brother James may have stayed on in Glasgow perhaps.
Sandra....take time to catch up....and come back with more questions ;)
Monica
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The passenger form for David Whitton from 1923 says he was an engineer b 1889 Edinburgh and that he was returning to Canada after war service, having previously lived in Edmonton. He names his father as James Whitton.
A voters list from 1945 has David Whitton engineer and Mrs David Whitton at 60 Clovelly Avenue York Ontario Canada (York is Toronto area). Might be them.
The passenger lists suggest that many of the Jeffreys emigrated to Canada in 1913, returned to Scotland in 1915 (the incoming passenger lists give an address of a hotel in Irvine) and returned to Canada in 1920. There is a further passenger list for Euphemia in 1925.
William
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John and Euphemia must have returned to Scotland again. An outward passenger list for the Athenia dep Glasgow 29 May 1923 bound for Montreal has
John Jeffrey 71 retired Last address Van Horn Caulaverock Road Prestwick
Euphemia Jeffrey 67
And below on list
David Whitton 32 engineer Last address 23 Promenade Portobello
Agnes Whitton 30 H'wife
Euphemia Whitton 3 (search on SP suggests her birth was registered as Euphemia Whitton in Prestwick).
Re Agnes I think she emigrated to Canada in 1913, returned to Scotland in 1915 but did not return to Canada with her parents in 1920.
The outward passenger list for Euphemia Jeffrey in 1925 shows her last address as 29 Briarhill Road Prestwick. ( I was able to view Canadian records on Acy. last night but not today - they must have had another free access period. I think the record there said she had been visiting an M J Maxwell - daughter Mary?).
William
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The passenger lists suggest that many of the Jeffreys emigrated to Canada in 1913, returned to Scotland in 1915 (the incoming passenger lists give an address of a hotel in Irvine) and returned to Canada in 1920.
In Agnes' marriage details from 1918 that we had earlier, her father John showed as a Hotel Manager, likely the one referenced above, William?
Monica
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Could well be, Monica. I think the hotel may have been the Irvine TradesHotel. (Found a 1921 directory which says it was on Boyle Street). The various passenger lists that I managed to look at last night suggests that they returned in 1915 "to help with the war effort". They seem to have returned in 1915 on separate voyages
John,Euphemia and Jack (ie James) arr Glasgow 2 June on Cassandra
Agnes 25 July Pretoria destination given as Irvine Trades Hotel (none in occ.column for her)
Kate (ie Catherine) and Isobel (ie Isabella) 20 Oct Cameronia destination Trades hotel Irvine ( Kate's occ operator and Isobel clerk.
As an aside it makes one realise that our ancestors were much more travelled than we sometimes give them credit for!
William
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Oh my goodness, you are all wonderful. I cant believe how much you have found out, so quickly. My head is spinning with all the info. Thank you all soooo much.
Sandra xx
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Sandra, so happy we have all been able to help you here a little bit. Mary's father may always remain unknown, but if you, I would certainly be confident that you have found her mother's family.
Not sure if you have access to some of the sites that William and I have been talking about. For family trees, I use a/try. If you do, then you could try to contact the tree owners to see what more you can find on the family, and in particular Agnes. Family photos are always a huge bonus...
There was also the early one I mentioned that you can contact at any time. www.robertwhitton.eu/person.php?id=4487&fam=2&pat=Jeffrey - you can email the webmaster and maybe enquire on current contacts etc.
Hope Mary went on to have a happy life after her adoption :)
Monica
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Totally agree, Monica.
Sandra I used the same site a/cy which Monica referred for a lot of the records. On the Canadian side of things you can see a lot on Familysearch. . In the Canada section of the site you can access passenger lists and in Ontario section you can see the marriages and deaths I referred to. The Toronto Trust cemeteries data set will show you where John Jeffrey is buried.
Assuming that Agnes and David Whitton remained in Toronto it might be worth having a look at Toronto newspaper archives to see if their deaths are reported. This would probably be for a fee. Or it might be an idea to put a post on the Canada board on this site (if you do do provide a link to this thread to avoid any duplication).
William