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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: Laurie1 on Wednesday 01 July 15 14:24 BST (UK)
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I would to exchange ( clarify ) data that I have on my relatives from Newry & Donaghmore.
1) I have a James Johnston who married Maria Annabella
Their son (2 ) ( Rev ) James Johnston who married Sarah Dobbs ( Dodds ). James was the founder of Tremount, a Presbyterian Church
Their sons were James Johnston of Carrickbroad & Joseph Johnston of Knappagh / Knappa.
Their is little information on the net which I have seen, I am after a possible relative whom I can exchange ideas and data.
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DONOUGHMORE, Co. Down.
This congregation was erected off that of Newry in 1705 during the vacancy there caused by the death of Mr. Lang.
The first minister was Mr. James Johnson, who was ordained by the Presbytery of Armagh on the 23rd of June, 1707.
In the following year the Synod annexed Drumbanagher and the Glen to this new erection to enable it to maintain its minister.
Mr. Johnson becoming infirm, Mr. James Richey was ordained here as his assistant on the 27th of June, 1763.
Mr. Johnson died October 20th, 1765, leaving a widow and family.
Glasgow Uni.. M.A. 1734. J JOHNSTON Sc: Hib F: Revdi Viri Jacob: Johnston V D M in Donaghmore in Comit. Dunensi.
1778: JACOBUS JOHNSTON filius natu maximus Josephi de Knappagh comitatu de Armagh.
M.A. 1819 GULIELMUS JOHNSON filius natu sextug Archibald agricolae in Parochia de Cappagh, comitatu de Tyrone in Hibernia. Otherwise William Johnston. .
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Thanks for the reply
I have the top information from Donaghmore Church which was in their records, however a little unclear as they do waffle on, however I am interested in the latin verse in the latter part of your reply. Is this to do with my Johnston's?
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JACOBUS JOHNSTON filius natu maximus Josephi de Knappagh comitatu de Armagh would be, wouldn't he??
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1707, June 23. — James Johnston was ordained by the Presbytery of Armagh as the first minister of the
congregation. This Presbytery reported to Ministers of the General Synod of 1705 that they had Licensed Mr. James Johson ' (Johnston) to preach the Gospel.
James Johnston built Traymont (Tremont) House, and gave the site for the original church edifice. He purchased the townland of Lisserboy, in the parish of Newry, bordering that of Donaghmore, where he (and his son James) gave the site for the present church in 1702, which was erected during his pastorate. The lease, renewable for ever, was made to twelve trustees and reserved the family pew for the Johnstons
and their heirs.
James Johnston was evidently a man of much influence in the community, a devoted Presbyterian, and a faithful minister of the Gospel. The Presbyterians of Donaghmore will do well to revere the memory of the good man who did so much for their church in this place. He appears to have been a constant attendant at the General Synod, until by age and infirmity he was precluded from taking part in the supreme court of his church.
He appeared at Synod for the first time in June 1708, and the last record of his presence was in 1786.
* James Johnson's ' name appears in ' a list of the Presbyterian ministers to whom her Majestie's Royal
Bounty is to be paid for Xmass quarter 1712.* He was fifty-nine years minister of the Donaghmore
congregation. He died October 21, 1765, aged eighty-seven years, and was buried in the parish church-
yard, where his tomb remains ; but the stone is so broken and defaced that it is impossible to decipher
the inscription. We are indebted to Colonel Johnston (of Kilmore, co. Armagh), a descendant, for the
following particulars of the family :
James Johnston, Presbyterian Minister of Donaghmore, of Tremont, co. Down, and Carrickbreda,
CO. Armagh, was son of James Johnston of Knappagh, Carrickbreda and Dress, co. Armagh, by Sarah Dobbs, his wife. He was born about 1678, married (before 1772) Elizabeth, sister of Francis Wilson of Tully, CO. Longford.
He left two children : James, of Tremont, and Joseph, M.D., who was grandfather of Captain Robert Dudgeon Johnston, 66th, 7th, and 68th Regiments, who served in the Peninsular War.
James Johnston of Tremont (son of Rev. James Johnston) married his cousin, Elizabeth, daughter of
Francis Wilson of Tully, co. Longford, and had three children, James (his heir), the Rev. Francis Johnston,
Vicar of Donaghmore, and Eleanor (married, 1768, William Hawkshaw of Divernagh, CO. Armagh, and had a son, Lieut.-Colonel Hawkshaw, 31st Regt., whose son, the Rev. Edward Burdett Hawkshaw, Prebendary of Hereford, married, 1845, Catherine Mary Jane, daughter of Sir Hungerford Hoskyns, 7th Bart., and was father of Major Edward Crichton Hawkshaw, R.A.).
The elder son of James Johnston of Tremont (above mentioned) was James Johnston of Tremont and Carrickbreda, who married Anne Pyne, and had issue, viz. James, Arthur, John, Joseph and two daughters.
.... and they all lived happily ever after!!! :-))
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Johnston. — This tomb is a large sarcophagus with flat stone, partly broken and the letters defaced, but
the following can be made out : '
Maria Anabella Johnston, wife of James Johnston, of Tremont. Died XXII December, mdccxxxii. Aged lxxi years.
Here lieth the Body of Mrs. Elizabeth Johnston, also of James Johnston, of Tremont Esq., who died
December xxii, mdcclxxxii, Aged lxiv years.
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The Rev. Francis Johnston, Vicar of Donaghmore (1775-89), seems to have held the nine townlands, which then constituted the manor, under the Primate; for by 'marriage articles ' (in his will, proved June 25, 1789) he charged several townlands of the manor (and a townland in County Armagh) with £1,600
for his younger children.
The Glebe house (an old-fashioned structure of three stories, the under story a basement with
kitchens and pantries) was built during the last year of Francis Johnston's incumbency. In his will (1789)
he specifies certain monies due him in respect to the erection of the house — namely that he was ' entitled to £250 for so much of the cost of building the Glebe House as his successor was to pay.'
1775. — July 19, Francis Johnston was collated per mortem Thomas Sacheverell. He appears at Visitation,
August 15, 1775. A * Francis Johnston ' was Scholar (T.C.D.), 1735, and B.A., 1736. Francis Johnston
(younger son of James Johnston of Tremont and Carrickbreda, and grandson of the first Presbyterian
minister of Donaghmore) married (Settlements dated December 17, 1780) Anne, daughter of John Martley of Bally fallon, co. Meath, by Clementina his wife, daughter of the Rev. Robert Meares, Rector of Almoritia,
third son of Lewis Meares of Meares Court, co. Westmeath.
Francis Johnston had a son James and daughters Clemena and Eleanora, who married in 1831 Hubert Kelly Waldron, J.P., D.L., of Drumena, CO. Leitrim, and Ashfort, co. Roscommon (High Sheriff, co. Leitrim, 1832), and had a son — Captain Hubert Kelly James John Johnston Waldron, 31st Regiment. Francis Johnston's will, dated April 25, 1789, was proved June 27 of the same year. He died June 13, 1789.
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I trust that clarifies data that you have on your relatives from Newry & Donaghmore!!
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Thanks Hallmark for your replies I have learned one or two things.
If you are bored ;D perhaps you may give me your slant ( in English ) the Genealogy of James of Tremont.
I am wondering if I have either missed a James or added one in this period, as dates on a written family tree ( which I take with a very heavy pound of salt ) do not add up to this written version which I have seen several times.
I know the latter part of the written statement is incorrect as Arthur Johnston married Ann Pyne.
Your help has been appreciated.
Thanks
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I make it.....James Johnston of Tremont (son of Rev. James Johnston) married his cousin, Elizabeth Wilson, daughter of Francis Wilson of Tully, Co. Longford, and had three children, James (his heir) who married Anne Pyne, and had issue, viz. James, Arthur, John, Joseph and two daughters.
Yet, you know the latter part of the written statement is incorrect as Arthur Johnston married Ann Pyne....
How do you know?? You don't say!
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There are 3 James in the above....
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I have birth Certs and married certs for my family to this point.
I was reading one way that James married Elizabeth Wilson daughter of...
I was then reading that James married Elizabeth Wilson his cousin...
Were there two Elizabeth Wilson's separate periods?
One reason why I'm attempting to contact other families who have these people in their trees.
Again thank you.
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...was reading one way that James married Elizabeth Wilson daughter of...
I was then reading that James married Elizabeth Wilson his cousin...
Were there two Elizabeth Wilson's separate periods?
No, Elizabeth Wilson was his cousin, the daughter of Francis Wilson of Tully, Co. Longford
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REMEMBER
...Colonel Johnston (of Kilmore, co. Armagh), a descendant, for the following particulars of the family...
MAY have got mixed up with the numbers of James?? (Generations)
"The elder son of James Johnston of Tremont (above mentioned) was James Johnston of Tremont and Carrickbreda, who married Anne Pyne, and had issue, viz. James, Arthur, John, Joseph and two daughters..."
It is POSSIBLE that
"The elder son of James Johnston of Tremont (above mentioned) was James Johnston of Tremont and Carrickbreda, who married ????, and had issue, viz. James, Arthur, John, Joseph and two daughters..."
and Arthur, son of that James, married Anne Pyne.
????
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Now you see where I was coming from lol.
The Johnston name in Northern Ireland is a popular one. Records kept about this time were poor or have been lost, it was only such that these people were prominent figures that details were recorded of these people.
I'm trying to estimate ages etc of the Johnston' mentioned above and search other genealogy search engines, however feel that by advertising here I may catch someone's eye who has that information already.
Thanks again for your help.
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I know... but these were narrated by a relative who may have got them mixed up...
IF.. you take my suggestion as being correct then how do the years fall in to time line?
"The elder son of James Johnston of Tremont (above mentioned) was James Johnston of Tremont and Carrickbreda, who married ????, and had issue, viz. James, Arthur, John, Joseph and two daughters..." and that this Arthur married Anne Pyne.
You have marriage Cert and year!
Colonel Johnston (of Kilmore, co. Armagh), a descendant could have been in error!!
From the First James, born in late 1600's to Arthur marrying Anne, gets you how many generations??
You KNOW it was Arthur... Certainly possible that he was the son of the last James and not "as remembered" by Colonel Johnston!! If he got it wrong, so long ago, who would know now??
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I have two written / drawn family trees that go back to 1500's.
The problem is that that they are from two sides of the Johnston's. Where there is continuity I like you believe they are correct, I'm after some dates as the two trees differ.
It may well be that I will never know these only the order that they were alleged to have been born.
Thanks for your help.
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Well I'd then look for gravestones... not always correct either but may straighten some of the lines.
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Presume you have these..
http://sources.nli.ie/Record/MS_UR_091185
http://sources.nli.ie/Record/MS_UR_084993
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http://sources.nli.ie/Search/Results?lookfor=%22%20Johnston%2C%20family%20of%22&type=Subject
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A P1D WILSON Francis of Tully, LOG Esq A
B P2D JOHNSTON James of Knappagh, ARM senr; Gent
C P3D JOHNSTON James of Lisardboy, DOW jnr; Gent
D mentioned JOHNSTON Elizabeth of Lisardboy, DOW Mrs
E mentioned JOHNSTON Joseph of
F mentioned JOHNSTON James of
G WD HUTCHESON John of Ballyrea, ARM Gent
H WD JOHNSTON Joseph of
I WD WM JOHNSTON Collin of Cornwall, MOG Gent
Abstract Comment for person [A] :lands of Dromnaross, Barony of Granard, LOG
Person [D] :wife of C
Person [E] :son of C & D
Person [F] :son of C & D
Person [G] :
Person [H] :2nd son of B
Person :
MS Date registered 10 Feb 1727 Marriage Agreement!!!!
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Hmmm... wonder who I WD WM JOHNSTON Collin of Cornwall, MOG Gent was!!
Cornwall MOG is Cornawall Monaghan (Killeevan Parish!)
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I see Collin here too...
1 WD BRADY Hugh of Follorow, CAV Gent
2 WD COWEN James of Larga, Kill, CAV Smith
3 P1L FORTH John of Esq
4 P1L FORTH Margaret of Dublin City Dame
5 P1L FORTH Mary of Mrs
6 P1L FORTH Robert of Dublin City Sir; Knt
7 Beneficiary JOHNSTON Anne of
8 Beneficiary JOHNSTON Catherine of
9 Testator JOHNSTON Collen of
10 P1D JOHNSTON Elizabeth of Killynaslaugh, MOG Spinster
11 Beneficiary JOHNSTON Hugh of
12 P2L JOHNSTON Hugh of Corneval, MOG Gent
13 Beneficiary JOHNSTON Jean of
14 P2D JOHNSTON Richard of Killynaslaugh, MOG Farmer A
15 WD WM YOUNG Henry of Cootehill, CAV Innkeeper
Abstract Comment for person [1] :
Person [3] :son & heir apparent of said Sir Robert Forth
Person [4] :wife of said Sir Robert Forth
Person [5] :wife of said John Forth Esq
Person [6] :99 year lease on said lands of Killynaslaugh, MOG, etc
Person [7] :one of the said daughters of said Collen Johnston; she later died without issue & left her saher to her sister, said Elizabeth Johnston
Person [8] :one of the said daughters of said Collen Johnston
Person [9] :son of said Hugh Johnston; he left lease to his son Hugh, with remainder to his 3 daughters
Person [10] :one of the daughters of said Collen Johnston & heiress to her sister, said Anne Johnston
Person [11] :son of said Collen Johnston;he later died without issue
Person [12] :later signed over said land to his son, said Collen Johnston
Person [13] :one of the said daughters of said Collen Johnston
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Cornawall lot certainly connect
No Role(s) in earlier deed(s) Role in current deed(s) Family name Forename Place Occ or title A
A P1 JOHNSTON Robert (jr) of Corogary, County Monaghan Gent
B P1 JOHNSTON Richard of Cornewall, County Monaghan Gent
C P1 JOHNSTON John of Cornewall, County Monaghan Gent
D P1 JOHNSTON Hugh of City of Dublin Esq A
E P3 BARCLAY Collin of Deryluck, County Monaghan Gent
F P3 WILSON John of Coothill, County Cavan Gent
G P2 JOHNSTON Mary of Spinster, Daughter of H
H JOHNSTON Robert of Deceased
I JOHNSTON Joseph of Deceased, Nephew of H
J JOHNSTON Robert of Deceased, Nephew of H
K WM COLLGAN Joseph of
L WM BUCKLEY Henry of Public Notary
Abstract L+R dated 5 and 6 May 1721 wherein P1 and P2 leased to P3 a tate of land in Corogary and a half-tate of land in Tonylample. G is the heir of H after the deaths of his nephews, I and J, who died leaving no male heirs.
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1728
No Role(s) in earlier deed(s) Role in current deed(s) Family name Forename Place Occ or title A
A P1 JONES William Morris of Moneyglass, ANT Esq
B P2 JOHNSTON James of Newry, DOW Revd
C O prev BOWEN William of
D Life JOHNSTON James of
E Life JOHNSTON Joseph of
F Life WILSON Joseph of
G mentioned WILSON Francis of Tully, LOG Esq
H WD HAMILTON John of Montjoy, TYR Esq
I WD MORRIS Phillip of Montjoy, TYR Gent
J WD WM MCCORMICK George of Broskill, DOW Farmer
K WM HUTCHESON Alexander of Dublin City Gent
Abstract Comment for person [A] :lands of Drumnallagh, parish of Agaderigg, Barony of Upper Iveagh, DOW
Person [C] :
Person [D] :eldest son of B
Person [E] :youngest son of B
Person [F] :eldest son of G
Person [G] :
Person [H] :
Person :
Person [J] :Broskill in Parish of Donaghmore, DOW
Person [K] :
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No Role(s) in earlier deed(s) Role in current deed(s) Family name Forename Place Occ or title A
A P1 P1 COCHRAN Hugh of Leek. MON Gent
B P2 P2 JOHNSTON Joseph of Knaphagh? ARM Gent A
C COCHRAN JOHNSTON of Captain. Father of A
D WD JOHNSTON William of Glaslough. MON Gent
E WD+WM PETTIGREW Robert of Glaslough. MON Apothecary A
F WM WITHNELL William of Glaslough. MON Barber A
G MAXWELL Robert of Glaslough. MON J.P.
H JOHNSTON Ba….? of Glaslough. MON J.P.
Abstract A assigned to B (JOHNSTON Joseph of Knaphagh? ) lands in Monaghan, which were his by title from C
MS Date registered 3rd Feb 1740/1
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Deed of Mortgage
No Role(s) in earlier deed(s) Role in current deed(s) Family name Forename Place Occ or title A
A P2 P1 OLIVER Arthur of Ballynahonebegg ANT Linen Draper A
B P1 OLIVER Joseph of Ballynahonebegg ANT
C P2 JOHNSTON James of Kappagh, ARM Esq.
D O NELSON Robert of
E O VERNER Thomas of
F P1 SEAVER Sarah of
7 WD WM BURGESS John of Armagh, ARM
8 WD WM COLLINS Patrick of clerk to John Burgess, of Armagh, ARM
Abstract Comment for person [A] :Pt of Ballynahonebegg [46a] then in poss of A together with pt of lands lately possessed by D&E with Bleech House Green Mills etc in ARM part of which sd lands being by deed of Partition 15Nov1783 made over to A by F, by A&B unto C (JOHNSTON James of Kappagh, ARM Esq. ) to hold for ever subject to redemption.
Person [7] :
Person [8] :
MS Date registered 1788-10-30
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James Johnston of Tremont (son of Rev. James Johnston) married his cousin, Elizabeth, daughter of
Francis Wilson of Tully, co. Longford,.............. The Marriage agreement mentions JOHNSTON Collin of Cornwall, MOG Gent so most likely related??
A P1D WILSON Francis of Tully, LOG Esq A
B P2D JOHNSTON James of Knappagh, ARM senr; Gent
C P3D JOHNSTON James of Lisardboy, DOW jnr; Gent
D mentioned JOHNSTON Elizabeth of Lisardboy, DOW Mrs
E mentioned JOHNSTON Joseph of
F mentioned JOHNSTON James of
G WD HUTCHESON John of Ballyrea, ARM Gent
H WD JOHNSTON Joseph of
I WD WM JOHNSTON Collin of Cornwall, MOG Gent
then you have
P1 P1 COCHRAN Hugh of Leek. MON Gent
B P2 P2 JOHNSTON Joseph of Knaphagh? ARM Gent A
C COCHRAN JOHNSTON of Captain. Father of A
D WD JOHNSTON William of Glaslough. MON Gent
E WD+WM PETTIGREW Robert of Glaslough. MON Apothecary A
F WM WITHNELL William of Glaslough. MON Barber A
G MAXWELL Robert of Glaslough. MON J.P.
H JOHNSTON Ba….? of Glaslough. MON J.P.
Abstract A assigned to B (JOHNSTON Joseph of Knaphagh? ) lands in Monaghan, which were his by title from C
MS Date registered 3rd Feb 1740/1
So who is Captain JOHNSTON COCHRAN Father of A ? Are they related?? and related to William JOHNSTON of Glaslough. MON Gent ???
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Thank you for the previous replies and your hard work, it is appreciated.
I had read The National Archive summary but have always had problems in getting a copy / breakdown of these entries. I have e-mailed them today, perhaps they may say this time??
As for the very latter entries other than the last se I have never seen those areas linked with the family or those names. The Johnstons at this time were a very wealthy family, purchasing a lot of Northern Ireland as it is known today. There were various family members that after the James I rebellion fled to Ireland. I am of course trying to work my way back but I agree with your comments earlier in your help.
Laurie
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Yes I'm thnking the answers to what you need will be in Dublin at the Registry of Wills nad Deeds, Blackhall Place, opposite Broadstone Bus Depot!!
That is where the last few bits I posted came from and there's probably a whole lot more, you really would need 2 days there, one day just going through the Indices and noting Year/Volume No./Entry number for each before going to get each ledger, they go back to 1708 BUT that is when people first reistered their holdings and you MIGHT for example, get a Probate of a Will from 1709 that would get you details from late 1600's!!
Someone who died 1709, age whatever, of wherever, plus the inheritors registering their inheritances..... and where I feel you should find answers!!
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at the Registry of Wills nad Deeds, = at the Registry of Wills and Deeds!!
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is when people first reistered their holdings = is when people first registered their holdings !!
I have NO MODIFY BUTTON so can't correct typos!!
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Hi my dad is a descendant from the johnsons and he has 2 of the family bibles from around rev James 1740: my dad has done a lot of research but I am interested in James son James I know that carrick Breda house was lost to him by debt have you any information
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Hi Lorraine, is your Dad Tom ? If so
I met him on Monday
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Lorraine
drop me a line * so that we can communicate.
Laurie
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If anyone had any pictures they’d be willing to share of the original Tremont house I would love to see them as I currently live on the property atm :)