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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Stirlingshire => Topic started by: MaryThorn on Friday 03 July 15 18:49 BST (UK)
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I'm trying to trace my great grandmothers family in Scotland and I'm at a total loss.
My great grandmother Janet Cunningham, born 1875 is listed as being born at 'woods of Dunmore' in the 1911 census.
She married my great grandfather Watson Oliver Thornton, born 1874 in 1899 in Morpeth, Northumberland. I can't find them on the 1901 census to see where her birthplace is listed on there.
I know from her marriage certificate that her father was called William Cunningham and that he was a Blacksmith but that's all I know.
Can anyone suggest where I should be looking to find this Cunningham family?
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Here is the 1901 reference but her birthplace is just shown as Scotland
RG13 Piece 4839 Folio 51 Page 46
Somebody called RainbowRichard has added her maiden name to the 1901 entry so appears to have an interest in the family. If you have an Ancestry subscription you could contact him
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Have you checked the Scottish 1881 census for her
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Janet is interchangeable with Jean/Jane etc in Scotland so I wonder if this is a possibility in 1881 but location is Ceres in Fife - everybody born there
William Cunningham 40 Blacksmith Emp, 2 Men
Jane 40
William 17
Eliza 13
Alexander 11
Maggie 8
Jane 6
Euphemia 4
Mary 9 Months
David Nicol 20 blacksmith
Ceres ED 4 Page 6 Line 14
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Thanks for the pointers Carole.
I've only done a general Scottish search on the 1881 census because I didn't really know where in Scotland to look. I can't find where the Woods of Dunmore would be located, I know there is a song about the Woods of Dunmore and also a place name in Ireland but I can't find anything on trusty google as to where it is in Scotland.
It's interesting to hear that Janet is interchangeable with Jane and Jean. I've found a birth on family search for a Jean Cunningham, father William in Ceres in 1875.
I thought the marriage certificate would give me a bit more information but the names of the witnesses don't give me any new leads. They are Mary Philis Thornton and Thomas Johnson so doesn't point to any Cunningham family. This doesn't surprise me as they were married 4 months after their first child was born so they may have been trying to avoid anymore shame.
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This Fife walking group programme makes specific reference to Dunmore and Dunmore Wood??
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01flg/
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Mary, from all that has been suggested, map here for Dunmore Wood http://canmore.org.uk/site/162461/dunmore-wood-ice-house ...will help likely with general mapping.
My 3xgrandmother was born according to the 1901 census in a sheep fold in Gorsten Fern, Argyll (father Angus was a shepherd). Daft, but with a name of Margaret MacDonald from the Highlands in Glasgow, was the begining of me trying to find her and family :D
Monica
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From Family Search...mother may be Jane/Jean Nairn.
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3Acunningham~%20%2Bbirth_place%3Afife~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1860-1885~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3Awilliam~%20%2Bmother_givenname%3Ajane~%20%2Bmother_surname%3Anairn~
Monica
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Thanks for all the pointers on this last year, sadly since then I haven't managed to get any further than this until this week when I think I had a Eureka moment.
Wondering why my Great grandmother may have headed from Scotland to Northumberland in the first place, I wondered if she had come with her family, so I set about looking for Cunninghams in the 1891 and 1901 cenus in the area she ended up living with my great grandfather.
This is where I think I might have struck lucky and wondered what others thought.
As well as my Great Grandmother, Janet Thornton living with her husband Watson Oliver Thornton and her family in Radcliffe, Northumberland in 1911, I also found a William Cunningham living with his wife Jane and family in the same village.
Looking at statistics for Radclifffe, this wasn't a big place, a total population of about 700, in 1911 there are only 5 Cunninghams (all Williams family) and only 11 Thorntons (all Janet's family)
According to the cenus, Willam as born in 1862 so too young to be Janet's father but could be considered to be her brother, also interestingly so William was born in Selkirk and his wife in Falkirk, so much closer to the Woods of Dunmore connection for Janet. Looking at a map of Radlciffe at the time, the streets that William and Janet were living in were perpendicular to each other.
I wonder if I'm just clutching at straws here or if there's a way of proving that Janet and William are related, can anyone give me any pointers on where to go now?
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The 1871 Ceres entry for the family I found in 1881 is as follows - all b Ceres:
William Cunningham 30 blacksmith
Jane 30
William 7
John 5
Eliza 3
Alexander 1
Divina Nairn 17 sister in law
Ceres ED 4 Page 7 Line 24
From Family Search
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTRL-ZQZ
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1861 for Davina & Jane Nairn - Ceres. All born there
John Nairn 52
Elisabeth 40
Jane 20
Euphemia 17
Margaret 10
Davina 8
John 5
Robert 3
Jane Williams 57 sister in law
Ceres ED 3 Page 10 Line 13
From FS - baptism of Robert
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYB6-K57
Marriage of John & Elisabeth
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTPS-BJB
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I am always very wary of equating Jean/Jane with Janet. I know the LDS think they are interchangeable, but I have only ever seen a couple of examples. I have many, many more examples of families who had a daughter Jean/Jane and a daughter Janet, so clearly thought of Jean/Jane as a separate name from Janet. So I am not convinced that it happens often enough to be useful without additional evidence. Of course Jane/Jean and Janet both morph into Jeannie or Jenny, which may be the source of confusion.
On the other hand, Janet is interchangable with Jessie. There is a birth of a Jessie Cunningham in Alloa on 11 July 1873, father William Cunningham, mother Margaret Reid. This couple also had two sons named William, one born 1866 and the other in 1870.
Also surprised that no-one has suggested Dunmore in the parish of Falkirk in Stirlingshire
http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NS8989
where there is a Dunmore Wood as well as the better known Pineapple
http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NS8888
I see that the 1911 census gives Janet's age as 36 and the 1901 says 26. This means that she is three times more likely to have been born in 1874 than in 1875.
It should be simple enough to find out the parentage of the William Cunningham in the 1901 snd 1911 censuses. He had a 22-year-old son John, born in Bathgate, and he and his wife had been married for 27 years. There can't be that many John Cunninghams born in Bathgate in 1888/9, and John's birth certificate will tell you Jane's maiden name and the exact date and place of William and Jane's marriage in 1883/4. The marriage certificate will tell you the names of William's parents.
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Willam as born in 1862 so too young to be Janet's father but could be considered to be her brother, also interestingly so William was born in Selkirk and his wife in Falkirk,
The 1871 for William Cunningham b Selkirk 1862 shows father as Thomas occ woollen weaver - not William occ blacksmith. In 1881 they did not have a daughter Janet/Jane/Jessie
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From FS
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQ5N-T4P
or
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQNZ-761
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Thanks for the further pointers. The Jane/Jean/Jessie suggestion is an interesting one.
Janet and Watson appear to gave had a daughter in 1900/1901 called Jeannie Easton C Thornton, she died in 1902.
Janet and Watson go on to have another daughter called Jeanie E C Thornton in 1913. The surnames used as names is common on the Thornton side, Watson's name is the surname of his grandmother and his middle name Oliver is the surname of his grandfather. My grandfather also had Hall as a middle name, named after Watsons Grandmother on the paternal side. This makes me wonder if Easton is a surname in Janet's family, either that or I really am clutching at straws now.
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Update - Brickwall knocked down
Just came across this old post of mine and thought I'd post an update. It took another 2 1/2 years but I finally got to the bottom of the mystery and proved my suspicions to be correct.
I decided to look back at the other Cunningham family living in the same small village as my great grandparents. The family that had a William Cunningham who was a blacksmith but was too young to be my great grandmother's father. On looking at them again I realised that they had a 'son ' listed as living with them called Robert Watson Cunningham. This seemed like another remarkable coincidence as my great grandfather was named Watson Oliver Thornton, the Watson and Oliver coming from great grandparents surnames.
Based on a hunch that all these coincidences must amount to something I checked the GRO records and only a Robert Cunningham matched, no mother's name given meaning he was illegitimate, strange for a couple who by this stage had been married for years. I then hunted out a baptism record for Robert Watson Cunningham and there clear as day was a father listed as Watson Oliver Thornton!
The rest fell into place, realising that Robert Watson was actually the Cunninghams grandson it became clear that my great grandmother referred to her stepfather as her father on her marriage details. I then checked the GRO records for the other Cunningham children and the mothers maiden name was listed as Jones. This led me to a Scottish birth registered for my great grandmother as Janet Jones, illegitmate. Baptismal records and date of birth matched to the 1939 census. Tracing back her mother's line led me to the family names of Easton and Campbell. Now DNA has finally proved my brick wall has crumbled.
Sorry for the long winded post just was excited to be able to update.
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Don't apologise :)
I'm sure we are all delighted to hear of the demise of brick walls.