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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Westmeath => Topic started by: Glinny on Tuesday 07 July 15 17:40 BST (UK)
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I have been looking for info about Catherine Jessop born 1870 Mullingar.
The problem I have is that I found a few bits ie. On a census with her two boys James o'neill & John O'neill ( my grandfather ) on another census with a George Jessop ( brother ), but I didn't record all my sources and I'm getting the info I have mixed up.
I also can't find a husband (father for the two boys) or wedding certificate.
Can anyone help? Either by confirming what I have or finding out more?
I have now learnt to make notes of absolutely everything.
Thanks in advance. :)
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Have you made notes of the Census link??
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http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003553622/
Hope this works
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OK, they were R.C. and RC records are coming on line tomorrow, free.....
Hubby and 1 Child missing on Census.
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Here's the 1911 link-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Westmeath/Clonfad/Tyrrellspass/887640
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http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Westmeath/Newtown/Killavally_No__1/1785151/
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Aghadowey, thanks for the link.
Hallmark, thanks. I hadn't noticed the 3 children bit. Learning more and more from the experts on here. TY
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http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Westmeath/Jamestown/Killare_Church/1780853/ is the nearest I can find 1901 for a Catherine ONeill, born W/meath etc
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Killavally http://www.logainm.ie/en/51938
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Hi Glinny
What was Catherine's husband's Christian name ?
Tara
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fmk/ gets you all W/meath born, RC, O'Neills age 0 to 10 in Ireland on 1911 Census... no sign of missing child!
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Taramcdsmall- no idea what his name was. Sorry
Hallmark- I had previously looked at that census entry for 1901, and presumed that was her. The only thing is her husband is missing.
The 1911 census states she had been married for 20 years, and I can't find anything with him
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Hi Glinny
Have you not gotten your Grandad's marriage cert to get his father's name and occupation off it ?
Have you not gotten your Grandad's birth cert to get his father's name and occupation off it ?
http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/1727e71221015
http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/4f3e9c1408436
How do you know that you are working with the right family without these important documents ?
Tara
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That 1911 census doesn't add up either.
20 years married yet with only a 10 year old and an 8 year old ???
Tara
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That 1911 census doesn't add up either.
20 years married yet with only a 10 year old and an 8 year old ???
Tara
Hubby was missing?? :-))
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How do you know that you are working with the right family without these important documents ?
Tara
Tara,
I agree for sure ;D
No-one can help with no info. to relate to as we would all be guessing too, so you would be no further forward ???
Annie
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Personally I'd wait until tomorrow when RC records come on line, free.... then continue with this thread based upon finds!
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HA You're Hilarious Hallmark ;D
10 Years of marriage and no kiddies ~ for that time it's rare :o
Military, Traveling Salesman, Prison, Hospital ~ I'm sure there's more reasons for not showing on one of the census but BOTH ~ HUM ~ AND no marriage ???
Listen to me, I'm off on a conspiracy theory again ;D ::) ;D
Tara
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fmm/ gets you all Male, ONeills, 20 years married on 1911 Census
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HA You're Hilarious Hallmark ;D
10 Years of marriage and no kiddies ~ for that time it's rare :o
Military, Traveling Salesman, Prison, Hospital ~ I'm sure there's more reasons for not showing on one of the census but BOTH ~ HUM ~ AND no marriage ???
Listen to me, I'm off on a conspiracy theory again ;D ::) ;D
Tara
Oh maybe the poor man was shy!
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A SHY IRISHMAN
I've heard it all :o ::) ;D
Tara
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Maybe she was shy??
OOPS NO.. a SHY IRISHWOMAN
I've heard it all :o ::) ;D
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There are a few Catherine Jessops getting married in England in ROUGHLY the right time ~
2 in 1898 / 2 in 1893
Long shot but he MIGHT have been English and they were there on the 1901 Census ~ he might have been back in England at the 1911 Census (missing child in tow).
A long shot I know !
Tara
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OH he could have been RIC
A lot of the time they don't show on census !
Tara
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Give that Catherine's parent's were James Jessop and Maria Noonan from Killavally ~ and that their son was called George ~ I am making the presumption that James' father was also called George.
This then would be him on GV !
http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/westmeath/newtown.htm
Tara
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Tara, sorry to be a complete muppet, but how did you get Catherine's parents?
And what is RIC?
Going to delete this question very quickly if the answer is blatantly obvious!!
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This is Catherine's birth !
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPYK-NQV
Tara
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RIC is the old name for the Irish Police Force
YES I'm mortified for you ;D
Tara
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In 1891 there was a Catherine Jessop in hospital in England, born Ireland.
HA my mad theory might pan out after all !
Tara
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Scratch that # Wrong Age :-[
Tara
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Glinny
You still need to answer how you know that you are working with the correct family.
Please answer, as it is the only way that I can help and not send you on wild goose chases !
Thanks
Tara
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Possibly in America ?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KFDH-WQC
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVRS-YWLG
Tara
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Anything is possible... http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fmo/ gets one all ONeill males, 1911, can't spot anything although hubby could be any age, not looked at them all!
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Indeed, You still need to answer how you know that you are working with the correct family.
Please answer, as it is the only way that anyone can help and not send you on wild goose chases !
What exactly have you got? What are the FULL details on whatever you have ???
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A sister Mary
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGHB-438
A sister Maria (first one must have passed away)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG2Z-499
A sister Sarah
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FP76-9YW
Brother George
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FR9G-3HC
Tara
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Possibly Frances in England in 1901 !
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9ZG-RKX
Tara
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Hiya Hallmark
Sure the hubby could have even been dead by 1901 and she filled in married in error !
You're great to be trying but I worry with all the variations in the surname ie Neill / O'Niell and spelling errors you could be there all night !
Who Knows !
Tara
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I remember my father saying his grandmother was called Catherine. He also had a sister called Catherine.
I searched the census for Catherine Oneill, and found an entry for tyrrellspass ( I remember my grandmother living in tyrellspass and we visited until around 1993 when she died)
My grandfathers name was John Joseph Oneill, and that entry with Catherine also has a John. Do you think I should be wary of following this family??
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I shall be harsh on you Glinny, but in a protective way.
Doing a family tree with no paperwork is NOT doing a family tree.
It's silly and dangerous.
I know none of us have money to throw away but a few €4 certs are crucial.
You need to start with your Grandad's marriage cert.
If you tell us who he married, when and where we can give you the details that you will need to order this cert.
After then we can take baby steps to see if we can prove / disprove the Jessop connection.
Sorry, but a surname like that would have been one of the first things mentioned in a family I'd have thought ~ and I presumed that this nugget had led you to the 1911 Census NOT just a Christian name and a place name visited 80 years later.
Please know that I'm not giving out (I promise) ~ I just want to make sure that you do this right.
Tara
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I remember my father saying his grandmother was called Catherine. He also had a sister called Catherine.
I searched the census for Catherine Oneill, and found an entry for tyrrellspass ( I remember my grandmother living in tyrellspass and we visited until around 1993 when she died)
My grandfathers name was John Joseph Oneill, and that entry with Catherine also has a John. Do you think I should be wary of following this family??
Yes you should be wary UNLESS you have at least one FACT!!
You visited until around 1993 when she died.... so have you any idea of where she is buried??
A date for 1993? Then look up an obituary in newspaper or something!
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1993 was for Glinny's grandmother ie John O'Neill's wife, not Great Grandmother who we are working on.
Might be worth looking at graveyards in the area anyway though ~ see what O'Neills there are !
Tara
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Just thought it might name next of kin etc....
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Would be super if it did :)
Tara
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That is what I was thinking...
St Stephen's Church seems to be name of Church....
The death has occurred of Elizabeth O'NEILL
Tore, Tyrrellspass, Westmeath
Reposing at her son Liam's residence (Tore) this Monday evening from 5pm to 9pm. Removal tomorrow, Tuesday morning, to St. Stephen's Church, arriving for 12 noon Mass. Burial afterwards in the adjoining cemetery.
Date Published: Monday 20th May 2013
Date of Death: Sunday 19th May 2013
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Would be super if it did :)
Tara
Something similar to this in her obit.....
The death has occurred of Thomas O'NEILL
Tore, Tyrrellspass, Westmeath
Thomas, Deeply regretted by his loving mother Winnie, sisters Sharon and Valerie. Brother Liam. Aunts, Uncles, Nieces, Nephews, Relatives and Friends. May he rest in peace. Reposing at his residence on Saturday from 11am until removal at 4pm To arrive at ST. Stephens church Tyrrellspass at 4.30. Funeral mass on Sunday at 10am. Burial afterwards in the local cemetary.
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I know Hallmark.
You hit paydirt when you get funeral notices like that.
Isn't it a shame that we don't have obits like the Americans, now you could nearly do a whole family tree with the obits if your family were Yanks ;D
Tara
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Well the first thing I'd do is check for her obituary.
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Ok, ok. All points very seriously noted. You do make me laugh Tara,thanks for the advice.
Start from the beginning, and I'll follow any instructions/advice to the tee.
My father James Finnian Oneill. Born 1938. Brother John ( eldest child) brother joe ( youngest child) sisters Catherine and Anne. There was another child, female, who I believe died when my father was aged between 8-12
My grandfather John Oneill married Josephine Deane. Roman Catholics
My grandfathers birthday was 2nd January ( same date as my brother) although I do not have a definite year.
My grandfather died and was buried in Tyrellspass. My grandmother died in London, but I believe was buried at Tyrellspass.
My fathers home was Tyrellspass, Co Westmeath.
That's all I have. TY
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Step 1
John O'Neill & Josephine Dean married 1933 in Mullingar District.
These are the details you need to order the cert.
First name(s) Josephine
Last name Dean
Registration year 1933
Registered Quarter/Year Oct - Dec 1933
Registration district Mullingar
Volume 3
Page 141
BTW Do you know how to get certs ?
Tara
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National Library website is currently down.... so not long to wait until RC register are live!!!
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TBH another member posted explaining how to get a cert, but I can't find the thread now
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Your Aunt Annie
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F1HJ-C4P
Your Uncle Joseph
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F1CR-G6J
Your Uncle John
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F17J-ZPL
Your Aunt Mary
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F1W8-WQK
Your Aunt Catherine
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F1Z1-M36
Your Dad
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F149-H87
Tara
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Shane Wilson describes best how to order certs.
NB Just order the research copies as they are only €4 each.
http://www.swilson.info/irishcerts.php
Tara
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Was Josephine from the same area ?
Did they marry in HER church or was this the same as John's church do you think ?
Tara
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Not sure Tara. I was led to believe they were both from same area.
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Isn't it a shame that we don't have obits like the Americans, now you could nearly do a whole family tree with the obits if your family were Yanks ;D
Tara
Tara,
You are not kidding ;D
Here's what I have for the wife of my father's 1st cousin (Toronto, Canada):
1. Her full name with middle name & maiden name
2. Husband’s full name including middle name
3. 8 Children
4. 5 married daughters (with married surnames)
5. 2 of the 5 married, husband’s forenames (other 3 were divorced/separated)
6. 3 married sons with their wives forenames
7. 22 grandchildren named
8. 5 grandchildren’s spouse’s forenames
9. 7 g grandchildren named
10. Parents full names with her mother’s middle name & maiden name
And a whole lot about her life.............it's like a biography ;D
Annie
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Hopefully they were !
So,my thoughts are that some clerks are great in churches and add extra info.
When you get the cert it will have the churches name that they got married in on it.
If it was the same church that you think John MAY have gotten baptised in then you can contact them, not sure if you are local or abroad.
Anyway, some clerks in the churches connected marriage notes to baptism notes so for example, when John was getting married (again presuming it was in the same church) then they would put a note in against his BAPTISM to say when he got married.
Fingers crossed the clerk was a goodo and did this.
Tara
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Hi Annie,
Way back members of my hubbies family went to the US and oh they obits are just fab.
Names, dates, places, where they worked, churches they belonged to, organisations they belonged to, even pictures.
SIGH ~ I think we should start a petition to make it a law that the same should be done in Ireland.
I'm only half joking too ;D
Tara
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Hi Annie,
Way back members of my hubbies family went to the US and oh they obits are just fab.
Names, dates, places, where they worked, churches they belonged to, organisations they belonged to, even pictures.
Tara
That one I have is the same and I got it on the Funeral Director's website which is free too.......separate from Ancestry etc. :P
No photo though, sadly :(
Annie
ADDED........10 yrs ago this Oct
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Thanks again Tara.
Unfortunately, I'm not local so I'll get the wedding cert ordered and take it from there.
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I'll get the wedding cert ordered and take it from there.
Glinny,
Welcome to the "geneaholics" club ;D
Once you get the 1st cert........ you will be racing for the next & hooked in no time ::)
Annie
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As soon as you get it let us know, I'm dying to know.
Some churches are great, if you pop them a polite email there is usually a secretary who will do something for you.
Best Of Luck
Tara
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Somebody said . . .
" A family tree without paperwork is mythology . . . "
Tara
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Annie
Any of the American obits that I got were just through pure fluke, googling a few keywords can have fab results !
Tara
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Thanks all. I've just read the guide to ordering certs, pretty straight forward.
I'll let you know when I get it. TY
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I'll get the wedding cert ordered and take it from there.
Glinny,
Welcome to the "geneaholics" club ;D
Once you get the 1st cert........ you will be racing for the next & hooked in no time ::)
Annie
Think I'm hooked already. I'm amazed at how quickly people respond with info! Im even learning from posts that have nothing to do with me!
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Why order Certs when registers are almost on line, free... ??? One and a half hours from now!
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Glinny is going to order a cert from 1938 Hallmark.
Those are NOT going to be on tomorrows release !
Tara
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From John Grenham
The National Library of Ireland (NLI) has today unveiled details of its most ambitious digitisation project to date. The project will see the Library’s entire collection of Catholic parish register microfilms made available online – for free – by summer 2015.
The records are considered the single most important source of information on Irish family history prior to the 1901 Census. Dating from the 1740s to the 1880s, they cover 1091 parishes throughout Ireland, and consist primarily of baptismal and marriage records.
Sorry Hallmark !
The records they are releasing are PRE 1880 records !
Did you think differently ?
Tara
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OH I never think... too dangerous! I just do what my wife tells me :-))
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Well isn't she the lucky lady :P
Tara
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Hi there, I just found this via a quick google search ;D
Helping my mother's best friend with her family tree, she is a direct descendant of Catherine Jessop O'Neill, I have information if you would like, I haven't even read through this entire thread, I signed up quickly so I could post reply, not sure of proper way to get that information to you.
My email is (*)
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Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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You have to post 3 times before you can send messages privately.. or post information here if you are looking for people!
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Hi Nicebeanst and Welcome !
Well Glinny is going to be over the moon.
Great News !
Tara
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Hi there, I am at work now, so can't talk much!
I am in NJ, USA I have done a lot of work on both parents side. I never even heard of this board, I use primarily ancestry.com and a little bit of familysearch.org
My mother's best friend of 40 years is P. O'Neill, she lives here in NJ. Her father was James O'Neill 1901-1949. He had 2 siblings John and Annie. Annie was born here in US, she thinks maybe California. They (James O'Neill and CAtherine Jessop) stayed in US for 7 years, went back to Ireland, where they had John and James Jr.
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The reason why James O'Neill Sr is not on 1911 census is bc he left the family to go BACK to the US
Catherine Jessop did not want to go back to US, she stayed home with the children and lived with her siblings in Tyrrellspass
James Sr. was rumored to have died in a train crash here in US.
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No exaggeration, I just started P's family tree on Sunday, and I will be speaking with her this evening. She lives here in NJ, but goes to Ireland annually for several months. She has a sister O, in Dublin area, who is quite excited about it all. OK must run, this afternoon/evening I can post links etc from ancestry.com (if that is allowed here) IDK.
Thanks all, I will be sure to help as much as I can if anyone needs US digging to be done.
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Ancestry links aren't any use unless a person has a subscription.
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Ah, ok. That's too bad. I think I can work around that with giving guest viewing privileges.
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Well
I for one am all sorts of excited and you guys aren't even my family ;D
Hopefully Glinny logs in SOON
Tara
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Oh my word. What an amazing last few posts.
Tara, I'm with you at being excited. I spent ages trying to find the missing husband!! Now I think nicebeanst has solved the mystery!!
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Aw Glinny I"m delighted for you.
If you or your newly found family need any help then let us know.
Tara
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Thank you Tara. You're a star.
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Update: my friend P and Glinny are kin :)
We are on the mutual quest of finding out what happened to the mysterious grandfather James O'Neill. I have year of birth as 1870 in Westmeath. When he was 18 he married Catherine Jessop in Ireland, I assume in Westmeath, that is where she was from as well.
At unknown point, they moved to US, had Annie. Length of stay was 7 years. returned by 1901, when James Jr was born.
James Sr had left by 1911, as noted by absence in census.
To think a google search brought his all together. I have read through a few pages here on this board and there is so much help available, a great source of information. Very happy to have stumbled in!
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... When he was 18 he married Catherine Jessop in Ireland, I assume in Westmeath, that is where she was from as well.
Possibly not, another thread on the go here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=729375.msg5740807#msg5740807
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Hi Tara. I wrote some information yesterday re the family. Not sure if Glinny saw it. My grandfather James Deane was a brother of Glinnys grandmother Josie.
Regards Dorothy Hughes
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Hello Dorothy,
I am sorry that Glinny has not yet replied to your first post, I can see that she was logged in last in May. Hopefully they may reply soon.
Regards
Sarah