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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Roscommon => Topic started by: aghadowey on Friday 10 July 15 23:41 BST (UK)
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Very little to go on so I haven't had much luck in the past (30 years) tracing this family and don't have a location to start searching for parish records.
George CLIFFORD (born in Ireland, died before 1880) married (bef.1856 Ireland) Catherine Horkin (born Jan./June 1830/1831, died 12 June 1900 Greenwich, Fairfield, Conn.). According to some records she came to America 1880 and the 1900 U.S. Census says she had 6 children (5 living)- I only know of 4 of the children. The family were supposed to have gone from Ireland to England, George died in England and then Catherine & some of the children went to America but that might not be correct.
1. William Clifford "stayed in England but supposed to have joined the Navy and jumped ship in Australia"
2. Michael Clifford (15 Oct.1856 Ireland-1916 Iowa) married & had family (have their details)
3. George Clifford (18 Mar.1864? or Jan./June 1857? Ireland-1930 Connecticut) married & had family (have their details)
4. Mary Clifford "went to England as a child but moved back to Ireland" however she might be Mary (Clifford) Acker (c1865 Ireland-1930 Greenwich, Conn.). note: unlikely in view of 1850 baptism now found
There are several online family trees that I've come across that are incomplete and full of errors so no clues there. There's a story handed down through young George's family that the Clifford children, and parents, were born in Cork but this might be confused with George's wife whose parents came from Co Cork.
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fng/ ?
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Could this Daniel be the 5th child or is he too old ?
Just that his Mum was Catherine and they are in Conn. in 1880
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MFZM-ZX6
Tara
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For parents George Clifford and Catherine Horkin, Mary Clifford was baptised in 1850, Michael Clifford in 1856, George Clifford in 1859 and Thomas Clifford in 1862, all in Ballinlough RC parish, County Roscommon.
Griffiths Valuation has a possible fit - George Clifford and a couple of Widow Cliffords in the townland of Grange, CP of Kiltullagh, local print date 1857.
A George Clifford crops up as complainant / witness / defendant in several familysearch records under "Petty Sessions Court Registers", Ballinlough Court, from 1852 - 1877, eg:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK33-G16Q
Still Cliffords around in 1901, might be a co-incidence, might not:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Roscommon/Ballinlough/Grange/1663813/
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might be Martin and siblings to do a traceback
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fni/
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If census is correct they were RC... is this correct?
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For parents George Clifford and Catherine Horkin, Mary Clifford was baptised in 1850, Michael Clifford in 1856, George Clifford in 1859 and Thomas Clifford in 1862, all in Ballinlough RC parish, County Roscommon.
Just found a William Clifford baptism, 1853, father George, Ballinlough RC parish. Can also confirm that the family lived in Grange (townland) around this time.
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Well done Gaffy !
Aghadowey will be chuffed ;D
Tara
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Well done Gaffy !
Aghadowey will be chuffed ;D
Tara
Well, the parents / childrens names seem to "fit" fairly well into the timeframe, so fingers crossed. :)
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I very much doubt there's another Clifford / Horkin couple out there.
It's another perfect example of not trusting trees that you see online ~ Aghadowey mentioned that all the other trees said that they were from Cork ~ Couldn't have been more wrong !
Tara
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I very much doubt there's another Clifford / Horkin couple out there.
I imagine not but I've been caught out by such remote possibilities before! :)
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UGH
I know, me too.
HA You think you've hit the jackpot and then you start finding the problems.
Oh Well, I'm sure Aghadowey will be able to put it all into place in to time at all.
It would be nice to think that 30 years research is resolved so quickly here.
Just shows that even us 'experts' need help ;D ;D ;D
Tara
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Just came back home from a funeral and found all these posts which was a lovely surprise to say the least :)
Answering in order of replies-
1) the only Clifford, Roscommomn Will that comes up is Ellen, wife of Michael Clifford (1917)
2) Daniel's in the 'wrong area of Connecticut and his mother's a bit too old but will keep a note of the record just in case
3) The Roscommon records look to be spot on with names, dates, etc. and it's the first time I've found what County there were from
4) "might be Martin and siblings to do a traceback http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fni/"
Can't see what connection Martin would be- his father Michael isn't 'my' Michael who went to America.
5) yes, the Cliffords were R.C.
6) With the addition of William there are now 5 children found (along with baptism years) and even more importantly a townland!
&) the 'Cork' reference was passed down through young George's family (although very little else was) but I think it was only George's wife who had Cork ancestry. Most of the online trees are from Michael's American descendants.
Had a quick look and found that the RC records for Kiltulla are online and quite extensive so will start going through them for more information. Will ask that this be moved to Roscommon board and thank you to everyone for your help ;D ;D ;D
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You know enough by now that the 'Cork' reference was passed down through young George's family (although very little else was) but I think it was only George's wife who had Cork ancestry.....
that it is POSSIBLE that Cork is mentioned simply because they might have left from Cork.
Is there any proof of a Cork relationship? How much credence do you put on Cork??
The only Clifford, Roscommon Will that comes up is Ellen, wife of Michael Clifford but there is one more as a Beneficiary of an Edward Corr, a Newton Ravenhill Clifford. So, no Horkin has them as a Beneficiary!
Trouble is with all these Wills they are down by County of Death, if one of them died in Dublin it comes up as Dublin.
http://search.freefind.com/find.html?si=13812782&pid=r&n=0&_charset_=UTF-8&bcd=%C3%B7&query=Clifford&s=roscommonstones has 4 Cliffords, not yours, but might be worth noting??
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Logainm have it as Kiltullagh http://www.logainm.ie/en/2090 if you zoom in you will see a church to SW at Garranlahan with Cemetery attached as a possible Church attended.
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fnk/ findmypast
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Newtown Ravenhill Clifford can be ruled out- he was a Church of Ireland bank manager from Co. Meath but lived in Co.Tipperary-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Tipperary_Town/Main_Street/1720133
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No problem... was just reversing things to look for Clfford as beneficiary.