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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Mayo => Topic started by: Cowboy Dan on Monday 13 July 15 20:32 BST (UK)
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I don't want to hijack your thread. If this should be in a new post, please accept my apologies and move it. I'm one of the clumsy Americans behind whose backs I'm sure you laugh. I mean no offense and hope none is taken.
New post created from this topic on the Frain Family
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=474524.0
I was told most of my life that my grandfather, Thomas Joseph Frain, was born in Connecticut in 1877. I have learned (or so I'm led to believe) that he was actually born in Mayo, baptized in Tobercurrie, Sligo, and emigrated to the U.S. in 1896. If what I've heard is correct, his parents were Dominick and Mary Roper Frain. I'm only saying what I was told. I'm not sure of any of it.
He moved to Minnesota and raised his family there. The anti-Irish sentiments of the day may have led him to say he was born in the U.S. In 1937, times were hard in Minnesota and they moved to Corpus Christi, TX, where he lived out the rest of his days, and where I was born & raised.
I can see the need to tell such a tale if people won't hire Irish fresh off the boat.
We were in Ireland about a year ago, and I learned how very little I knew of my family's history. I met a very kind man at a family history center and was asked questions to which I didn't know any answers.
A lady at the tourist office in Cong was also helpful, such as she could be. Frain is not a common name in south Mayo, more in the east part of the country and in Roscommon. I needed a map to learn that it really wasn't far away.
If anyone can fill in any of the large blank spots, I'll be very grateful. If you're a kindly amateur, I'll have my son look you up and buy you a pint when he's in Ireland next month.
Well, I'll ask him to do. He's his own man, young and hardheaded, much like his father, and his. I can't promise that he'll get to Mayo; he'll be two nights in Dublin, two in NI, and a few more on the road. Thankfully, the fires should be out by the time he gets to NI.
I'm thinking I'd like to revisit Ireland, probably next April. Yes, I know the significance. One of my uncles was named Robert Emmet Frain.
I'll definitely visit Mayo. I want to top Croagh Patrick. I tried and failed last time. I'd like to visit the chapel and go to Mass. If you'd like to walk with me, please keep in touch.
Thanks for letting me ramble. Have a great day today and a better day tomorrow.
God bless.
Dan
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If you aren't sure of his parents' names then how can you be sure you've found his baptism in Ireland?
What about the Thomas J. Frayne age 7 in 1880 Census (Middletown, Middlesex, Connecticut)? Parents David & Nora born in Ireland but children born in Conn., also a niece Katie Frayne age 17 born South Carolina.
Death certificate does give his parents as Dominick Frain & Mary Roper (Harold Frain informant)
If he was born in Ireland in 1870s there should be a birth registration. There is this extracted birth for a son Martin in Co. Sligo-
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGP7-NQF
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Have found a family tree which shows the Thomas J. Frain in 1880 Conn. census as the son of a David Frain (born 1829 Co. Cork) & Honoria Roper (born Ireland). Thomas looks to be the same as the one you are looking for so perhaps the death certificate is incorrect- Dominick instead of David & Mary instead of Honoria/Nora.
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Hello,
There is a marriage where Dominick Frain and Mary Roper are on the same page in the civil indexes.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FY73-3YW
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FY74-N6R
As Aghadowey has found that information, how sure are you of the Tubbercurry connection?
heywood
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Hi Dan and Welcome to this site !
Can I just stop and say what a lovely introduction to your family story ?
Beautifully Told ;D
Tara
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Just adding the link to the death :
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KS1B-426
It's an unusual combination of names, so I'd be working on the presumption that it's one and the same couple.
Now, Dominick & Mary are still in Ireland in 1879 based on the baptism for son Martin (already posted)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGP7-NQX
So, in my opinion, EITHER the immigrant story is the correct one OR the date given as Thomas' birth is incorrect.
Do we know did Dominick & Mary go to the US ?
Could they have emmigrated AFTER 1879, and say Thomas was actually born in the US in 1880 / 1881 or even a few years on from that ?
Ages are notoriously incorrect on Census and death certs !
Tara
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I take it that this is the emmigration record that someone has worked on !
First name(s) THOS
Last name FRAYNE
Gender Male
Age 19
Birth year 1877
Marital status S
Occupation LABR
Departure year 1896
Departure day 20
Departure month 6
Departure port SOUTHAMPTON
Destination port NEW YORK
Tara
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Assuming for a moment that Thomas Frain was born in Ireland in 1877- recorded as 14 Nov.1877 in some U.S. records so either reg. Oct./Dec.1877 or Jan./Mar.1878.
Checking the Irish civil registration index shows two 1877 births-
Thomas Frain, Castlereagh district https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FB39-76F
probably died in infancy- https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FR14-L57
Thomas Frain Swineford district https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FB39-76X
Now, the part I'm struggling with is if Thomas was born in Ireland 1877 and came to U.S. in 1890s why does he consistantly give his birthplace as Connecticut (rather than say New York or some other state).
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"Now, the part I'm struggling with is if Thomas was born in Ireland 1877 and came to U.S. in 1890s why does he consistantly give his birthplace as Connecticut (rather than say New York or some other state)"
It's argued that there were or were not "No Irish Need Apply" back in those days. Irishmen had a hard time finding work, regardless. My thought is that saying he was an American rather than a recent immigrant made job searches easier. Connecticut, to a less educated person, might not seem as close to the docks as NYC would have.
He probably kept it up because it's hard to untell a lie like it's hard to unring a bell. It's just a guess; I can't ask him. He died when I was six.
Later this month, or next, I'm going to go to Minnesota to look for birth records for my father and his brothers, his parents' marriage certificate and my grandfather's military & naturalization records.
The immigration document you found is the one I've been looking for for YEARS. Thank you.
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NLI has the original RC baptism entry for Thomas Frain scanned and available to see online, just search for "Kilmactigue" at the link below, then choose Microfilm 04226/09 (Baptisms 01 July 1864 to 24 July 1880), then look under date of baptism 9 December 1877:
http://registers.nli.ie/
(It's on page 204, the year is in the top left hand corner of each digitised page image)
Edited to add: The baptism for Martin (previously posted) is also recorded in this register, page 232, 9 November 1879.
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It's argued that there were or were not "No Irish Need Apply" back in those days. Irishmen had a hard time finding work, regardless. My thought is that saying he was an American rather than a recent immigrant made job searches easier. Connecticut, to a less educated person, might not seem as close to the docks as NYC would have.
He probably kept it up because it's hard to untell a lie like it's hard to unring a bell. It's just a guess; I can't ask him. He died when I was six.
Making up your birthplace as 'Connecticut' and then sticking to it does appear strange, especially as his accent would have been a dead give-away- unless he had been in Connecticut or had some connection to it. I'm wondering, if he isn't the Thomas in 1880 census, if he is connected to the Middletown family.
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I thought for years that the Middletown, CT TJF was my grandfather, but the David and Honora from Cork didn't line up with the County Mayo I'd always heard.
His death certificate shows Dominick and Mary, so being as I've found records from the Mayo/Sligo area, I'm going to go with that until I learn differently.