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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Clackmannanshire => Topic started by: RoserAncestors on Wednesday 15 July 15 02:03 BST (UK)
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I have a marriage between James Bain and Margaret Luke on 20 Oct 1805 in Clackmannan, Clackmannanshire. The OPR says they were "clandestinely married" with no other details. Does anyone know what this means and why it might have been so?
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Im pretty sure that looks like what is known as an Irregular Marriage, which was a Declaration by the couple in front of 2 witnesses! Then reported to the parish, and after Civil Registration, to the registrar. Perfectly legal in Scotland until 1940, as were any children born within the marriage, although of course, not condoned by the Established Church! Which would also account for the comment "clandestinely married"!
http://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/socialpolitical/research/economicsocialhistory/historymedicine/scottishwayofbirthanddeath/marriage/
My maternal great grandfather's 2nd marriage in 1914 was an Irregular Marriage, and being before 1940, was registered as such! Record with the full detail is on Scotland's People.
I don't imagine that my great grandfather's family would have been impressed though, he was from a very strict Baptist family!
Hope this is helpful for you!
Jeanne
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Thank you very much Jeanne, that is very helpful.
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Happy to oblige! I was pretty stumped too when I first found the record on Scotland's People!
I still have living members from my family in Scotland who are Baptists, and they were shocked at my revelation about the marriage of their "Uncle"! "No no no" they said, "Niverrr a Watson wid dae that!! ;D
Jeanne
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Hahaha :)
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In law, although the term Clandestine Marriage referred to a specific criminal offence, some clergymen / church officials used it to describe all forms of irregular marriages, possibly just to show their disapproval of what was a perfectly valid form of marriage. To many church folk any marriage conducted outside the full glare of the Church (of Scotland) was clandestine.
However you may need to take into account the religion of your couple - prior to 1834 ALL marriages performed outwith the Church of Scotland were considered irregular or Clandestine (and illegal) if performed by a Minister/Priest who was not of the Church of Scotland. Your couple may have thought of themselves as married in their own religion but in the eyes of the Kirk officials they would not accept it and could hold them to account regardless of their personal beliefs.
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Thank you, that is very interesting.
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I find this thread interesting because very recently I found information on one of my relatives, which I find amusing.
His first child was born 3 months before his marriage. The marriage was "By Declaration"
He was reported to his "superior" and was relieved on his work duties based on this information:
He then wrote a letter, asking to be reinstated into his previous post.
He apologised but insisted that it was never his intention to deceive.
He said that he and his wife actually had an irregular marriage more than a year before his child's birth and there were no witnesses and had no paperwork as proof.
Realising that there was no paper trail, the couple chose to be "remarried" by declaration for registration purposes only and a marriage cert.
He was reinstated into his post.
I'm not sure that I believe him.
What job was he relieved of and ultimitely reinstated into?
He was a Church Of Scotland Minister!
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That's excellent!
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What job was he relieved of and ultimitely reinstated into?
He was a Church Of Scotland Minister!
Extremely unusual - I'm not sure I believe him either ;) (but perhaps we should give him the benefit of the doubt)
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Found this very amusing Church of Scotland Ministers are no saints - I worked with many of them years ago at New College, Faculty of Divinity, Edinburgh. It was a well known fact that in May when the church held its General Assembly a "House of Ill Repute" in Danube Street was extremely busy and I don't think the ministers were trying to show the "ladies" the error of their ways/ save their souls/ taking a "prayer meeting".
Well, we are all human ;D
Dorrie
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Rabble Burns didn't think much of Holy Willie and his ilk, skulking around to catch people under the green thorn trees at night, and other places where they might be able to find the "fornicators" up to
houghmagandy(sp.) (but at the same time allegedly keeping an eye out for a lassie for themselves!) Anyone caught would be hauled up before the Kirk session & charged.
They'd also watch the newly weds, and if a baby appeared before 9 months, the couple would be charged with ante nuptial fornication, and up on the cutty stool in church for 3 Sunday's!
I have three of them in my family! And in Ayrshire!
Jeanne