RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dunbartonshire => Topic started by: Freya Ellingsen on Saturday 18 July 15 11:19 BST (UK)
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Looking for any information on the Clarke's of Duntoucher Dunbartonshire.
What we know is that Thomas b.abt 1912 he was said to have Irish ancestry, but it was never allowed to talked about in his family. Thomas m Helen McKenzie b. abt 1915, in Glasgow her parents were known as Mary Dickson/Dixon her father was known as John.
Helen and Thomas had a child who died abt 1937 at the aged of 4months family stories tell of this child named Eugene to be buried in Lambhill Cemetery.
Helen and Thomas migrate in the 50's to Australia....
Thankyou
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Hi Nugent,
Thomas Clarke & Helen McKenzie married Glasgow City 1935
Eugene Clarke b & d 1936 Glasgow City
You will be able to download both on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk which is reasonably priced.
Marriage cert. will give where married, ages, addresses, occupations, mother & father of both too ;)
Annie
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Thanks Annie,
The marriages only go to 1934 online just miss out. Unless I'm doing the search wrong?
In this case are there any other ways of getting marriage cert?
Thanks,
Fran
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Hi Fran,
Yes you can order by post on their site & cheaper than English/Irish/Welsh certs.
There is a button next to where it says "no image" which says "order image" just click on it but you will need enough credits to cover it or you can do it by phone & debit card.
Annie
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Fran,
From SP Record Availability
Type of Record Year Range Indexed? Images?
Statutory Register Deaths 1855-1964 Yes Yes (Eugene died 1936)
Statutory Register Marriages 1855-1939 Yes Yes (they married 1936)
Annie
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Thanks for that but where is it? I can see abstract but how do I now download image or is it sent to ??? me?
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Fran,
Did the marriage have under Image (view) or did it say no image ???
When you press view it will cost 5 credits which is less than £1.50 BP
Annie
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Well its just cost me a arm and a leg they are being mailed!
12 pounds each!
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Were you not able to download there & then..................according to the dates I posted you should have been able to ???
Annie
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No! I may have to set up my computer with some of their software because I could not see a image, in any case now they are in the mail as snail mail to Australia..
I still have lots of credits does one loose them if u do not use for a period of time?
I found this site very cumbersome and clunky, also was having trouble with pass word it seems to be eating my credit card hope the result is worth it....
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I would say SP is hard to begin with if not accustomed to areas, name variants etc. but their instructions on the site are pretty good.
You will not have their software on your comp but there is a blue box top right side which says "My details".
You can go in there & set your image for direct download or direct view then press on the update details.
You only need the password to get into the site just as you would any other ???
Annie
ADDED..........Top of page you will see this:
Last visited 17/07/2015 Credits:8 active 348 days which is how long you get to use them but I've always used mine in plenty of time & not lost any £
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You can do searches for free to narrow dates & places down before purchasing.
I don't know how experienced you are with genealogy ???
Annie
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Hi, looked at some things but came away with more questions than answers.
Birth:
Thomas Clarke
born:27 March 1912
place:Drummond's Lane,Hardgate,Duntocher
father:James Clarke occ:wood turner-journeyman
mother:Mary Moore
informant:James Clarke-father present
marriage of parents: 11 March 1878 Clydebank
Now I checked marriages in Scotland between 1870-1890 in both the Statutory & Catholic records and could not find their marriage. I also checked between 1868-1898 n Ireland with no luck either.
I then looked at the 1901 census and found 3 possibles;(listing most defining bits)
1901 census; 15 Newton St,Paisley,Renfrew
James Clarke age 55, born 1846 Ireland,head of house,occ:wood turner
Mary Clarke age 55,born 1846 Glasgow, wife
Thomas Clarke age 32, born 1869 Glasgow,son
Frederick Clarke age 28, born 1873 Neilston,Renfrew,son
John Clarke age 24, born 1872,Neilston,Renfrew, son
Willie Clarke age 20, born 1881 Neilston,Renfrew, son
Catherine Clarke age 18, born 1883 Neilston Renfrew, daughter
Bella Clarke age 16, boorn 1885 Paisley,Renfrew,daughter
609 Dalmarnock Rd,Bridgeton,Glasgow
James Clark age 31, born 1870 Mauchline,Ayr, occ:woodkeeper
Mary Clark age 27, born 1874 Glasgow, wife
Mary Jane Clark age 7, born 1894 Glasgow,daughter
Lucy Louisa Clark age 3, born 1898 Glasgow, daughter
Elizabeth Clark age 1, born 1900 Glasgow, daughter
42 Miller's Lane,Old Kilpatrick,Clydebank,Dumbarton
James Clarke age 36,born 1865 Ireland, occ:hammerman
Mary Clarke age 36, born 1865 Ireland, wife
James Clarke age 9, born 1892 Ireland,son
Michael Clarke age 2,born 1899 Ireland, son
* for this James & Mary I checked Irish birth records for both James & Michael with James & Mary as parents and could find no record of either.
These were the 3 best matches in the census for James & Mary going by James' occupation or the date of marriage & Dunbarton where you say they were. You would have to go through the 1911 census on Scotlandspeople to see if could find a better family match-mind you I did an earlier search and for James Clarke with second person name of Mary in Dunbarton there are 17 matches so its quite a few to go through. Kim
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Thankyou very much there does seem to be a lot of James and Mary Clarkes ;D
I will go the the State Library here in Victoria and see if they have the 1911 census, firstly.
Thanks once more.
Cheers,
Fran :)
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There is a marriage on Scotlandspeople in 1898 in Old Kilpatrick ( which would cover Clydebank) between a James Clarke and Mary Moore. A Mary Moore or Clarke died in Dumbartonshire ( Kirkintilloch) in 1964 with date of birth 1876.
Isobel
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Isobel,
That sound as if u have cracked the marriage!
Thanks for all this info as we have none at all...
Except the place Thomas came from and his wife's name Mary Mckenzie.
cheers,
Fran ;D ;D ;D
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Since your assistance Isobel, with info on the Clarke's of Duntocher, I have interviewed a older person from the same village who knew some of the other Clarke siblings but memories are not all to clear.
There may of been a daughter named Mary who had a child out of wed lock, and the memory is that her parents brought the child up as their own.
One brother Bertie (Albert) Clarke was a prisoner of war in a camp ran by the Japanese and badly damaged but lived.
A third brother may of been a Manager of Singer Machines his name was George.
She believes his Clarke family was large ???
All this is a bit hazy but if anyone can tell us more it would be great ;D.
Cheers
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Hi, to elaborate on Isobel's find...
Marriage:
11 March 1898
St James Parish church,Clydebank
James Clarke
age 20 occ:wood turner-journeyman
address:Riddell's Rd,Kilbowie
father:Robert Clarke occ:saw miller
mother:Cathrine Headfellow
Mary Moore
age 21 occ:cook in restaurant
address:Kilbowie cottages,Kilbowie
father:Andrew Moore-blacksmith (dec.)
mother:Rebecca Haggarty (dec.)
1891 Scotland census:
Catherine Clark head of house married age 44 born Ireland
George Clark son age 20 born Ireland
Robert Clark son age 17 born Ireland
James Clark son age 16 born Ireland
Isabella Clark daughter age 14 born New Kilpatrick,Dunbarton
Catherine Clark daughter age 10 born new Kilpatrick,Dunbarton
1881 Scotland census: Temple Saw Mills,New Kilpatrick,Dunbarton
Robert Clark head of house age 34 born 1847 Ireland occ:sawmill labourer
Catherine Clark wife age 35 born 1846 Ireland
Maria Clark daughter age 15 born 1866 Ireland
George Clark son age 12 born 1869 Ireland
Robert J Clark son age 10 born 1871 Ireland
James Clark son age 8 born 1873 Ireland
Isabella Clark daughter age 6 born 1875 New Kilpatrick,Dunbarton
Catherine Clark daughter age 7 months born 1880 New Kilpatrick,Dunbarton
James Clark boarder age 20 born 1861 Ireland (probably a cousin)
Births for a couple of the children:
James Clark b 26 April 1873 Newtownhamilton,Armagh
Robert John Clark b 20 July 1870 Newtownhamilton,Armagh
--------Clark b 2 February 1866 Crossmaglen,Armagh
Isabella Clark b 9 November 1875 New Kilpatrick,Dunbarton
Catherine Clark b 1880 New Kilpatrick,Dunbarton
*note: I looked at births on the Scotlands People website & between 1874-1885 there are 21 Clarkes born in New Kilpatrick,Dunbarton.It may be worth looking at to see if there are other siblings born in Scotland.
Marriage:
5 January 1865
Newtownhamilton Church of Ireland,Armagh
Robert Clarke
address:Tullyvallen
age 22 occ:labourer
father:John Clarke occ:labourer
Catherine Goodfellow
address:Altnamackan
age:22
father:George Goodfellow occ:labourer
witnesses:Adam Lattimer & Hugh Milligan
married in the parish church by W. Robinson-Rector of Kilcluney
Griffiths Valuation 1848-1864:
George Goodfellow
townland:Altnamackan
parish:Newtownhamilton
county:Armagh
*there is a Robert Goodfelllow in the townland of Tullyvallen same parish & county
John Clarke
townland:Tullyvallen
parish:Newtownhamilton
county:Armagh
*also in parish of Newtownhamilton are these other Clarkes; Thomas, James, Anne, Samuel, William, Adam, Andrew & David
** maybe this is how Robert & Catherine met-her uncle & Robert's father lived in same townland.
Tithe Applotment books 1814-1838:
George & Samuel Goodfellow in 1827 are both in townlands of Crossmaglen & Rathkeelan which are in parish of Creggan,co Armagh
The Clarkes(of which there are many) were in the parishes of Creggan & Shrule during this time period.
Robert Clarke died 1913 in Kirkintilloch,Dunbarton
Catherine Clarke died 1904 in Kirkintilloch,Dunbarton
Hope this helps,Kim
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Thank u so much, I am doing this project for a friend who had no idea where her Grandparents came from. They were not allowed to ask any questions regarding the fathers side for unknown reason.
When I let her know she will be so excited that more info has been sent to sift through ;D
She is making the trip next year to a wedding in Ireland and will be visiting Scotland as well, so I will have to search those census before that.
She remembers a murmur that there is Irish on her Dads side..
Cheers,
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Fran
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Bit of a long shot but this is a possible 1901 census entry for James and Mary which would appear to indicate that both of Thomas' parents were Irish - there are some discrepancies on how the information has been transcribed on Ancestry and Findmypast so I have checked both against the Scotlandspeople index and think this is the correct information.
2 Rutherford Lane, Glasgow
James Clarke age 23 married born Ireland occ Shirt Machinist (Ancestry says age 25)
Mary Clarke age 24 married born Ireland
Jeannie Clarke daughter age 4 born Ayrshire (ancestry says James, FindMyPast says Jennie)
Catherine Clarke age 2 daughter born Clydebank
Robert Clarke age 2m born Clydebank
I have found a possible matching birth for Catherine on Scotlandspeople-
Catherine Goodfellow Clarke
Born 8th October 1898 at Riddells Row, Kilbirnie
Father James Clarke occ. Wood Turner
Mother Mary Clarke nee Moore
Parents married Old Kilpatrick 11th March 1898
Kim has given you some good leads regarding the parents etc of James. Struggling to find anything on Mary Moore as there is no obvious Moore/ Haggerty marriage in the Irish records and I can't find any births for Moore children where the mother's maiden name is remotely like Haggerty ( using the indices on NI Direct website - www.nidirect.gov.uk )
Regards,
Isobel
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Thanks Isobel, there is quiet a lot of info on them now to digest.
I see that the Uncle Bertie my friend was talking about would be Robert he could of been the prisoner of war? Not sure about the George my friend referred to as Manager of Singer Machines, again maybe her GUncle?
;D ;D ;D
Thanks from us all
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Wondering if a grave location for the baby Eugene Clarke 1936 buried at LambHill is available online or would he of been buried in a common grave?
Thanks
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Hello Nugent
We have the same family connection :)
I am the GG Granddaughter of James Clarke and Mary Moore, they are Thomas Clarkes Parents and YES they were Irish. James was born Co Armagh and Mary( I know she's Irish from census records but not sure where, however there is a possibility it was Donegal)
Thomas Clarke was born 27/3/1912 Drummonds Road, Hardgate, Dunbartonshire to James Clarke a wood turner and Mary Moore.
Thomas Clarke married Helen McKenzie at Partick/Anderston Church of Scotland on 30/3/1935
Thomas was 23 years an iron turner and living at 46 Lancefield St Glasgow.( parents same as above)
Helen was 21 years a domestic servant living at 33 Lancefield Street Glasgow..Her parents , John McKenzie and Mary Dickon.
Thomas and Helen Had a son...
Eugene Louis Clarke born 2/2/1936 at 111 Finnieston Street, Anderston, Glasgow.
He died at the sick children's hospital ( Yorkhill Hospital) on 13/5/1936 of gastro enteritis and marasmus.
My Grandfather George Clarke and Thomas Clarke would have been brothers.
I've been trying to find Thomas death certificate for years. It didn't occur to me that they would have went to Australia.
I also didn't know that that they weren't allowed to discuss their parents Irish descent . I would be interested to hear more about this.
All my information is from Scotland's people and some from Irish records. I use the genealogy centre in Glasgow often and have been searching for my Clarke Ancestry for years.
Please contact me if you need more information.
I hope this is helpful to you.
Rosie Clarke... :)
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Rosie,
Thankyou very much my friend Aileen will be in raptures to know that there is someone else out there who is researching her fathers side of things, I will ring her in a few minutes to let her know. From help on Rootschat we can go back to a:
John Clarke
Townland: Tullyvallen
Parish: Newtownhamilton
County: Armagh
*also in parish of Newtownhamilton are these other Clarkes; Thomas, James, Anne, Samuel, William, Adam, Andrew & David
** maybe this is how Robert & Catherine met-her uncle & Robert's father lived in same townland.
Are u able to tell us more?
Alieen may be going to Ireland next year to a wedding of a friend, so hence me trying to help her find out where her ancestors came from.
Many Thanks,
Fran
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Hello Fran
I have a whole lot of BDM and census information I can pass on to Aileen, but not a lot of family folk lore.( however I will try to put snippets here and there)
The John Clarke from Tullyvallen is right however the other family I don't think at this point( I may be wrong) is of the same branch.
I do have another Clarke family that I strongly believe is our ancestry too, however I want to leave that until I finish our branch and then I can give you the information on them and you will see the connection more clearly. I feel with so many Clarkes it can become confusing and we can get side tracked easily.
Can I email you privately with the information. I would really like to pass this on.
Kind regards Rosie
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Hello Fran
I noticed in my first post that I have made a mistake. ::)
I'm the great granddaughter of James Clarke and Mary Moore.. :)
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Thanks for that I have sent u a PM
Cheers