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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: tempogold on Wednesday 22 July 15 08:44 BST (UK)
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James Hurst was born in Co Fermanagh Ireland in 1852. He went to America and married Alice. He is shown on the 1892 and 1896 California Voters Registers and on the 1900 Census for San Francisco .From that I know he was married in 1889--likely California as she is from there but I do not know her maiden name. Census also says he Immigrated about 1877--but I don't have a record. They have 4 living children Maybelle, James ,George and Willie ( William). So far straight forward but it is after James death in 1903 that things get complicated. There is picture of what is I think his Memorial at Cypress Lawn Cemetery but the name beneath his is Mary Ellen Hurst.Is this Alice or a second wife--or the wrong Hurst Family.
To confuse matters more the Cemetery lists only one Alice Hurst and she dies in 1935.
The 1910 Census lists Alice as Widowed with the 4 children but on the record on line is also written beneath her name that of Mary Ellen. I can not find any Alice Hurst with/without any of the children after that 1910 census .
But I can trace census records for a Mary Ellen Hurst nee Kern up to her death in 1948.Maybelle was still with her in 1940. I don't know what happens to her --a popular name. There are quite a few records for the 3 boys on line .
James marries M Frank and dies 9 Jan 1969, and had 2 sons James Aitken and Thomas Aitken Hurst. Aiken would have been their Irish Grandmothers maiden name ( assuming I have the correct family) George died 28 July 1955 ---again records at Cypress Cemetery . He married Leona Giraud-unclear if he is widowed or Divorced on the 1940 census. Don't find a record for her .
On latter records he appears to be George Thomas Hurst. The youngest Child is William (Joe) Hurst and he died 23 June 1917 of Meningitis having only joined the Navy in May 1917. These middle names never showed up on the census returns but appear on other records,But I have crossed checked addresses so I know the children are related to each other but who are the parents . Am I mixing up two families'.?? Would greatly appreciate help in solving this mystery.
Many Thanks .
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I'm not finding that 1910 census entry - can you post a link please?
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The 1900 census show the name Alice Hurst with a name of Ellen Hurst below (in brackets) with no indication why. This is not a transcription amendment because the original is clearly ALICE. It also looks like Alice/Mary E is the mother of the children and not a stepmother because the 1910 census shows that she has had 5 children of whom one has died.
Have looked for both an Alice and a Mary E Kern born California on the 1870 & 1880 census but found none with parents born Pennsylvania.
On Georges 1917/1918 Draft card he shows that he was living with his mother at 2429 Franklin St., where Mary E was living on the 1920 census.
On Georges 1942 Draft card it shows his brother James as a person who will always know his address.
Georges marriage shows his mother has Mary E Kern, as does his death record and James death record.
Also James & his wife Mildreds grave is engraved on the same monument has his father & mother.
It really does look like this is the correct Hurst family but why the name Alice on 1900 census?
Ray
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Thank You Ray. Like you I think its the same family but it is confusing .
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Hi,
According to Mary Ellen's obit in 1948, Maybelle's married name was Small.
http://www.sfgenealogy.com/php/sfmrsearch/sfmrviewer.php?a=+52217+&b=+-1+&c=+1+&button=next+image
http://www.sfgenealogy.com/php/sfmrsearch/sfmrviewer.php?a=+52218+&b=+1+&c=+1+&button=previous+image
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Maybelle married Earl V Small and she died in 1967
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VP4B-LTW
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Her obit mentions a couple of her brothers, but not her parents.
http://www.sfgenealogy.com/php/sfmrsearch/sfmrviewer.php?a=+98131+&b=+1+&c=+1+&button=previous+image
http://www.sfgenealogy.com/php/sfmrsearch/sfmrviewer.php?a=+98130+&b=+-1+&c=+1+&button=next+image
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What great finds RJ137, and welcome to rootschat. I think this is now pretty conclusive that this is one family regardless of the "Alice".
The other version of Kern (Kearn) is worth following.
Ray
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James's DC in 1969 pretty much confirms what has been found about his parents.
http://www.sfgenealogy.com/php/sfmrsearch/sfmrviewer.php?a=+117690+&b=+1+&c=+2+&button=next+image
Obits for James.
http://www.sfgenealogy.com/php/sfmrsearch/sfmrviewer.php?a=+117687+&b=+1+&c=+1+&button=show+big+image
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Obits for George
http://www.sfgenealogy.com/php/sfmrsearch/sfmrviewer.php?a=+77302+&b=+-1+&c=+1+&button=show+big+image
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RJ137 - this is a great resource, never seen it before, thanks for sharing.
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Many thanks for the info. Much ties in but that about George is strange. The mother of Virginia was I thought Leona Giraud. But on the 1940 Census it does suggest he was divorced --so was there Evelyn J Hurst -- second wife. Both his sister and daughter seem to have moved a long way to Mass. Yet Sister dies in San fan .
Still confused about Alice .
Thank You
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Sorry Shaun missed your post and not sure how to do that .
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Also, index of death https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VPQY-JQZ shows her mother's maiden name as Fitzpatrick. While the family might not have known full and accurate details if they weren't in touch with her family, the death certificate might have her parents' names on it to the best of the informant's knowledge.
Here's where things might get complicated:
http://www.jwfgenresearch.com/SFCall/6900-80.htm
James Hurst m. 1889 to "Allie Dalton".
Very little information in the newspaper:
http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=DAC18891114.2.85.3#
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Interesting and confusing.
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I suppose it could be another James Hurst, but I can't find another in SF and the timing is highly suspicious. Or perhaps she was married briefly beforehand, or used a stepfather's name?
I think you really do need the death certificate of "Mary Ellen Hurst" if you don't have it already.
A Mrs M.E. Hurst was the "complaining witness" in a case in 1907:
http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=SFC19070125.2.106&srpos=49&e=-------en--20--41-byDA-txt-txIN-%22Mrs+Hurst%22------#
http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=SFC19070611.2.50&srpos=51&e=-------en--20--41-byDA-txt-txIN-%22Mrs+Hurst%22------#
http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=SFC19070419.2.130&srpos=1&e=-------en--20--1-byDA-txt-txIN-%22Mary+E.+Hurst%22------#
Mention of a niece, Mary Jane Cooke, but I think she may be this one on the Hurst side:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VGTJ-ZXF
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Just found this record on FamilySearch.org -
"California, San Francisco Area Funeral Home Records, 1835-1979," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JNRL-BJS : accessed 1 August 2015), James Hurst, 18 Aug 1903; citing funeral home Halsted & Co., San Francisco, San Francisco, California, record book Vol. 2,, 1898-1913, San Francisco Public Library, San Francisco History and Archive Center.
There is more information on the image (3 pages which overlap) James Hurst; Cause of Death - "Rhutism Acute" perhaps acute rheumatism ? This fits in with what I was told "James HURST went to San Francisco, died suddenly, he had rheumatic fever back home in Ireland - he married in America. In New South Wales Maud Hurst's brother John went to him for a job in his horse bazaar." (Mabel Thompson/Mabel Thompson). John Richard Hurst went to San Francisco about 1899 -he married "Mary E" so a bit confusing.
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Still confused Beth. Is the suggestion that the large Marble monument in Cypress Lawn Memorial ( on Line)Park was erected by latter family Hurst members and names just allocated in a random way. I mention this because on one side it clearly shows James Hurst 1850-1903 and underneath Mary E Hurst 1861-1948--those are the only 2 names on that side.
Would John Richard Hurst and a Mary E named all 4 children the same ??? as James who died in 1903.
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I can try calling the cemetery office for you (on Tuesday or Thursday), to see if they might have more information about James and Mary. Sometimes, they ask for the caller's relationship to the deceased (some offices do not give out information to random people) ;) and some won't give out information over the phone. May I ask your connection to James, please (answering either by pm or here) so that I can tell them that I am calling for you?
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I don't think this has been mentioned previously; apologies if someone already posted it. :-\
Passing of James Hurst, August 18, 1903. Mentions wife Allie, children Mabel, James Jr., Georgie and Willie. James was a native of County Fermanagh, Ireland, age 53 years and 1 month. (James') Address: 1332 Fulton Street. Interment: Cypress Lawn Cemetery.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ftu/
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Hello Lisa
Very interested in your reply. Had not seen the death notice --thank you . I assume Mabel could be Maybelle ?
This is the first time Alice ( although not written that way is mentioned). My relationship is quite distant and is 1st Cousin 3x removed. Would be really interested to see if her name is on the memorial?. I found only one Alice Hurst buried at the cemetery and that is 1935 but could not see any grave marker on line.
Any more information would be very much appreciated.
Still confused .
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I will try to call the office on Tuesday.
I don't believe this has been mentioned?
Mary A Kearns (mother) is listed on George Thomas' Social Security (App & Claims) Index
Is there a possibility that Mary Ellen could have had the nickname of Alice/Allie? Her name is Allie in 1889, Alice in 1900 and Allie in 1903 and after the passing of her husband, she is shown as Mary E. After her husband passed away, perhaps she used her birth name (Mary)? Perhaps Dalton was her first husband's name? ???
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Hello again. Yes that is my thinking-but cant prove it -my thinking is she goes back to using her formal legal name perhaps to rent property etc.and then continues to use it.
The inclusion of the name Aitkin as middle names in her grandchildren make me think its the same family.The maiden name of James ( d1903)mother was Aitken. So many coincidences.
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While the year of birth is a little off, the death index for California has
Mary Ellen Hurst, 1 November 1861 - 12 April 1948
1900 San Francisco Census
Alice Hurst, Nov 1864
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1887 San Francisco Directory
Mrs. M. E. Dalton, widow, r 130 Ivy Avenue
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Thank you . V Interesting .
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1887 San Francisco Directory
Mrs. M. E. Dalton, widow, r 130 Ivy Avenue
Also 1887 Directory
John Dalton, plumber, J. D. Welch, r. 130 Ivy Avenue
John may be John H., born June 1862, California.
Will research more later (unless someone else has a look around before I do).
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I called the cemetery office; the staff was patient and very nice. I explained "our" connection to James Hurst. It appears that Alice Hurst may not be related. I am not quoting what was said, but basically:
Individuals are buried in the plot owned? by the James Hurst Estate (I believe he originally purchased the plot). There were 8 individuals interred in plot, which is ES-I, Lot-Section-Panel 163: George Thomas, James, James (died 1969), Mary Ellen, Mildred, Thomas Aiken, William (all had the surname of Hurst), and Maybelle? Small (died 1967).
Not connected to the above plot: Alice G Hurst was buried in 1935 and the plot was purchased(?) by her sister-in-law. Since I did not have the s-i-l's name, understandably, the staff member could not tell me the name. Alice was age 59 at the time of her passing.
I hope this helps. Lisa
PS You can view the names and dates of the Hurst individuals by viewing
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gsr&GSiman=1&GScid=7927&GSfn=&GSln=hurst
http://www.webcemeteries.com/cypresslawn/search.asp
Type Hurst, and search (ctrl & f) for ES-I
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1887 San Francisco Directory
Mrs. M. E. Dalton, widow, r 130 Ivy Avenue
Mrs. M. E. Dalton is most likely not "your" Mary Ellen.
California voter reg, 1888
John Henry Dalton, age 25, born California, Plumber, 130 Ivy Avenue
1882 SF Directory
John H Dalton, plumber, r 19 1/2 Rausch
1880 SF Census
Mary E Dalton, age 40, Keeping House, born New York - parents born Ireland
John H, age 17, Apprentice to Plumber
Mary E, age 22, at home
Ellen, age 15, attending school
Margaret, age 12, attending school
All children born California; their father was born in Ireland
Same family as in 1880?
1870 SF Census
John Dalton, age 41?, Longshoreman, born Ireland
Mary, age 33, Keeping House, born Ireland
Mary, 15
Kate, 13
Rosa, 12
Abba, 10
John, 8
Nellie, 5
Marg't, 3
All children born California
1860 Benicia, Solano Co., California, 27 July 1860
John Dalton, age 31, Butcher, Ireland
Mary, age 23, Ireland
Mary E., age 5
Kate, age 2
Abby ?, age 5/12
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Hello Lisa
Thank you so much for taking so much time and trouble over this. The fact that the Alice Hurst Buried there is most likely not connected helps.
The other interesting thing with the names you supplied is that Thomas Aitkin Hurst is one of the Grandchildren mentioned above . We are clear this is the plot for James who died 1903 ---and the fact that a further 7 members were buried there really does suggest they are all the same family .
Very Many Thanks.
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You are quite welcome. Please let us know if you would like us to try to find Alice/Mary Ellen prior to her marriage to James. :) I've not been able to find her yet, but perhaps with further researching...
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Sorry have not been about for a few days. That would be very kind but it seems a huge task. Have no other information that would help narrower it down.
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I will take another look for Alice/Mary on Monday night or Tuesday. I don't like to give up without exhausting all avenues. ;)
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There most likely isn't any connection, but mentioning it anyway...
Living with the Hursts in 1910 was a boarder, Sterling Bunnell. He was age 28, born in California, father born in Connecticut, mother born in Massachusetts. Mr. Bunnell was a doctor.
Looking at his funeral home record in 1957, it is stated that his mother was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Knowing that Mary Ellen states her parents were born in Pennsylvania (one census states they were born in Ohio and Pennsylvania), I wonder if Mary Ellen's family could have known Dr. Bunnell's family; or, perhaps she just had a boarder to help supplement her income? :-\
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Now your asking. But very common I would have thought for people to take in boarders --although may be a friend of the family .