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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: dowdstree on Monday 27 July 15 16:16 BST (UK)

Title: Do you think I have the correct link?
Post by: dowdstree on Monday 27 July 15 16:16 BST (UK)
Hi all,

I only began researching in January 2014 and still consider myself a "beginner."

Perhaps I am a bit cheeky - please let me know if you think so - and I apologise in advance.

I have a link which I was wondering if one of you experts could look at and give me your opinion on before I research any further.

So here goes  -  Mary Cochrane born 23/3/1861 - Clackmannanshire Scotland - she is illegitimate
                        on her birth registration but on her marriage certificate and death certificate her
                        father is listed as Duncan Ferguson, farmer. (its the same for her siblings). They all
                        seem to use the Ferguson surname.

The only match I can find for a possible father is a Duncan Ferguson born about 1827 in Monvievard  Perthshire he was a farmer all his life and his death certificate lists him as single.

Could this be her father do you think?

Thank you all,

Dorrie
Title: Re: Do you think I have the correct link?
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 27 July 15 16:46 BST (UK)
Hi There Dorrie

Firstly who did Mary marry and when ?

Do you have this marriage cert ?

What was HER actual name given on the marriage cert ?

Was it Mary Ferguson ~ daughter of Duncan Ferguson ?

Do you have her on census after her marriage with her birthplace given as Clackmaninshire ?

Next question then would be, how do you know that you have the correct birth cert ?

Tara
Title: Re: Do you think I have the correct link?
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 27 July 15 16:47 BST (UK)
Could this be her ?

Age just slightly out !

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYRV-TJ8

Tara
Title: Re: Do you think I have the correct link?
Post by: dowdstree on Monday 27 July 15 17:25 BST (UK)
Hi Tara,

Firstly thanks for getting back to me.
No the birth link you gave me is not the correct one.
I didn't want to put too much info in my post because its so confusing.
The lady in question was my late husband's grandmother.

Here goes - Her birth certificate - 23/8/1861 in Sauchie, Clackmannanshire lists her as illegitimate and her mother as Mary Cochrane.

Her Marriage certificate - 1/2/1884 in Alva to James Learmonth gives her father as Duncan Ferguson, Farmer (he is not recorded as deceased) and her mother as Mary Cochrane now Wright (I have got details of this)
Her Death certificate - 13/11/1930 in Edinburgh - lists her parents as above but now deceased - obviously.
I have her in all the census records including 1911. Prior to her marriage she is listed as Ferguson.
On her son James's death certificate - 4/7/1955 - his mother's surname is given as Ferguson.

My query is who the hell is this guy Duncan Feruson :'( Farmer, Perthshire.

Thanks,

Dorrie
Title: Re: Do you think I have the correct link?
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 27 July 15 17:34 BST (UK)
Mary Cochrane born 23/3/1861 - Clackmannanshire Scotland - she is illegitimate
on her birth registration but
on her marriage certificate and death certificate her father is listed as Duncan Ferguson, farmer. (its the same for her siblings).

Hi Dorrie,

A lot of questions.............

Do you have all siblings birth certs.  ???
How many siblings & what were yrs of birth  ???
Were they all born same area  ???

Have you found Duncan Ferguson in the household on any census  ???
Have you found him around that area on census, if not in the household  ???

Annie

Title: Re: Do you think I have the correct link?
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 27 July 15 17:49 BST (UK)
Mary Cochrane born 23/3/1861 - Clackmannanshire Scotland

Then you have.........
Her birth certificate - 23/8/1861 in Sauchie, Clackmannanshire

Just wondering which is correct as the 1st date was before 1861 census & 2nd date after census  ???

Annie
Title: Re: Do you think I have the correct link?
Post by: dowdstree on Monday 27 July 15 19:05 BST (UK)
Hi Annie,

Thanks for your interest in helping me.
Yes I have all their birth records and only the mother Mary Cochrane is listed.

Siblings were  -  Janet born 4/12/1859 - Clackmannan
                        Mary born  23/8/1861 -  Sauchie
                        Isabella born 23/8/1861 - Sauchie - twin of Mary - she does not appear to have
                                                                                                  lived long.
                        Duncan born  20/8/1865 - Clackmannan - Birth record has him as
                                                                                      Duncan Ferguson Cochrane
                        Margaret born 30/10/1871 - Alva

In all the relevant census records it shows head as Mary Cochrane and the children as Ferguson.
No, Duncan Ferguson never appears in any of the census records with Mary Cochrane or the children.
Yes, I have found 1 Duncan Ferguson who would fit the bill - Duncan Ferguson born Comrie about 1827 and listed in census records for 1841, 1851, 1861, 1871, 1881 and 1891 as a farmer in the district of Monzievaird and Strowan. His mother was named Janet (as 1st daughter) was. His death certificate shows him as single ;D I can't seem to find any other Duncan Ferguson who fits the bill.
I live in Edinburgh so know that these distances are ok - maybe he caught up with Mary when he brought the "coos" to market ;)

My gut tells me that this is the correct gentleman ??? Maybe I just need reassurance.

Thanks,

Dorrie





Title: Re: Do you think I have the correct link?
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 27 July 15 19:16 BST (UK)
I wondered about the siblings births because I have 4 kids born illegitimately to same father (well.............as sure as I can be)

Only 1 of the 4 is registered in the mother's maiden name only, simply because the father was not with her at the registration.

In Scotland illegitimate kids are indexed under both surnames if the father was present even though the parent's weren't married.

Have you considered that she may have needed to apply for "Poor Relief" as details of the father would have been asked & it gives a list of different things  ???

Will look for my own post & post the link to give you an idea  ;)

Annie
Title: Re: Do you think I have the correct link?
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 27 July 15 19:27 BST (UK)
Hi Dorrie,

Here's the link but as you can see, I got help on that so maybe you could start a thread to find out about "Poor Relief" in the Clackmannan area  ???

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=724457.msg5687511#msg5687511

Annie

ADDED.......with dates ranging from 1st birth to after last birth   :-\
Title: Re: Do you think I have the correct link?
Post by: dowdstree on Monday 27 July 15 19:57 BST (UK)
Hi Annie,

Thanks for that advice about the "poor relief" I will certainly look into it when I come back from holiday - going away on Friday.

Mary Cochrane was employed as a shawl plaiter in the census records as were her girls as soon as they were old enough - about 10 years old :(

I can't help wondering if Duncan Ferguson the father gave her some sort of financial support - if I have the correct one he could probably have afforded it.

History may have repeated itself 2 generations on where the mother and father never married but the father paid money for his boy. The father died "single" as did the Duncan Ferguson I am looking at.

Thanks for your help.

Dorrie
Title: Re: Do you think I have the correct link?
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 27 July 15 20:06 BST (UK)
Well Dorrie,

I had my suspicions about the distance from Clackmannan to Perthshire (rural)  ::)

I have found a Duncan Ferguson b c 1829 Clackmannan living with his wife Janet in Clackmannan in 1881 with kids
Thomas c 1856
Duncan c 1861
James c 1863
Margaret c 1865

He's a Brickworks Labourer but if this was "extra marital" maybe the "Farmer" was a cover-up ???

Away to see if he's on the other census in Clackmannan  ;D

Annie
Title: Re: Do you think I have the correct link?
Post by: dowdstree on Monday 27 July 15 20:28 BST (UK)
Hi Annie,

Thanks for that I had looked at that Duncan Ferguson before but discounted him as I was obviously looking for a farmer.
The distance from his farm to Clackmannan is approx. 30/40 miles I believe.

You could be correct and it was a cover for his infidelities.
Maybe I am just trying to make the farmer one fit :-\ but don't like putting info in without proof.
Oh well maybe another one of those brick walls that I will never be able to knock down.

Thanks,

Dorrie
Title: Re: Do you think I have the correct link?
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 27 July 15 20:45 BST (UK)
Dorrie,

Can't find this man on other census born in Clackmannan  :-\

Maybe the Farmer is correct but seems a bit of a distance......................how/when/where did they meet up  ???  ::)

Annie
Title: Re: Do you think I have the correct link?
Post by: patvp1 on Tuesday 28 July 15 00:45 BST (UK)
Hi Dorrie - Like looking for a needle in a haystack.  Checked my Duncan Fergusons, nope...no farmers amongst them  ;) Shoemakers, Slaters, etc etc.
Must have been a long term relationship from 1861 to 1871 going on the births of the children?? apart from Janet ?? can't see Duncan trotting backwards and forwards from "wherever" .
Will have a look around and see if I can come up with anything, you never know  ;D

Know Alva pretty well, spent a lot of time there on holidays when I was a kid (long time ago).

Regards Patvp
Title: Re: Do you think I have the correct link?
Post by: dowdstree on Tuesday 28 July 15 10:07 BST (UK)
Good Morning from Scotland Patvp,

Thanks for looking at your Duncan Ferguson line for me.
I am beginning to wonder what kind of woman Mary Cochrane was ;D and did they all actually have the same father? even if they used the name Ferguson? Maybe that was the name of the first child's father and she continued to use the "mythical" name for the others - maybe it looked more respectable. I believe here in Scotland you could call yourself anything you liked as long as no fraud was intended.
Oh well, just have to accept that its not going to be possible to "prove" anything. :'(
Thank you all for your help.

Dorrie
Title: Re: Do you think I have the correct link?
Post by: jennywren001 on Tuesday 28 July 15 16:44 BST (UK)
Hi Dorrie,
Mary's sister Margaret as I'm sure you know also had a child about 1860 called James McEwen. By 1871 Margaret is still single and has had another child but this second one is called Cochrane.

One other thing which may be of no relevance whatsoever but there are at least three other boys called Duncan Ferguson born in Alloa in the 1860s all seem to be fathered by men called Alexander Ferguson - somehow that strikes me as a bit unusual.
Jen
Title: Re: Do you think I have the correct link?
Post by: dowdstree on Tuesday 28 July 15 17:58 BST (UK)
Hello Jen,
Thanks for your info. No I had not looked at Mary's sister Margaret yet - will do so now.

Will also check on the other Duncan Fergusons born in Alloa in 1860's to see if I can get any other clues.

Also check out Alexander Ferguson to see if he possibly had a brother Duncan.

These Ferguson lads seem to have been very busy boys ::)

Finding the correct "Duncan Ferguson" supposed farmer may never be possible :'(

Thanks again,

Dorrie
Title: Re: Do you think I have the correct link?
Post by: dowdstree on Wednesday 29 July 15 14:13 BST (UK)
Thanks to you all for your help with my mysterious "Duncan Ferguson" farmer.

I have now got his death certificate & will from SP. His death was registered by his brother George and in his will he left everything to his unmarried sister Janet and a nephew - John. No mention of any children legitimate or otherwise.

Looks certain now that this is not my link. Oh well you can't win them all - but never say "give up".

I will certainly look into Mary Cochrane getting parish relief at some point.

Again, thanks to you all.

Dorrie
Title: Re: Do you think I have the correct link?
Post by: jennywren001 on Friday 31 July 15 14:34 BST (UK)
Hi Dorrie,
Have you thought maybe Duncan was a ploughman - that could explain him being away from the family home at census time. On the 1861 census there are a couple of ploughmen by the name of Duncan Ferguson working under ten miles from Sauchie. I've got folks in my family who listed their father as a farmer when in actuality he was an agricultural labourer.
Jen


Title: Re: Do you think I have the correct link?
Post by: dowdstree on Friday 31 July 15 16:55 BST (UK)
Hello Jen,

Thanks for the info about "ploughmen" named Duncan Ferguson. I will have a look to see if they could be possibilities.

I have had a quick look at Mary Cochrane's sister Margaret and her two children as you suggested - Margaret herself does not seem to be in any census after 1871 Nor does her daughter Mayanne but her son - James McEwan is in the 1881 census as a lodger and working as a general labourer. That's as far as it goes at the moment - but will check death records when I get back from holiday - going away tomorrow.

One other thing, I see you are researching the name JOLLY what part of Scotland are they from?
By any chance are they from Dundee?

Thank again for taking the time to help,

Dorrie
Title: Re: Do you think I have the correct link?
Post by: jennywren001 on Friday 31 July 15 17:11 BST (UK)
Hi Dorrie,
My Jollys originate from Montrose and the Mearns at least back to the the beginning of the 19th century - that's when my brick wall kicks in. Enjoy your holiday.
Jen
Title: Re: Do you think I have the correct link?
Post by: dowdstree on Friday 31 July 15 17:16 BST (UK)
Hello Jen,

Oh well it may have been the same Jolly family - it was worth mentioning to you. Sorry about your brick wall but we always keep trying ???

Dorrie
Title: Re: Do you think I have the correct link?
Post by: dowdstree on Sunday 16 August 15 16:25 BST (UK)
I would just like to say a big thanks to all who gave their time and tried to help me with the "mysterious" Duncan Ferguson.

Checked out others by that name as suggested but without "proof" I would only be guessing or trying to make it fit and I will not do that.

Am going to leave him - for now - but who knows maybe someday I will solve the mystery.

Thanks again,

Dorrie
Title: Re: Do you think I have the correct link?
Post by: Audrey63 on Thursday 21 January 21 19:19 GMT (UK)
Hi Dorrie,
I hope you are still checking this site as it was a long time ago that you posted about Duncan Ferguson.  I have interest in him too as he appears on a census as having a daughter (Jean or Jane) but there never appears to have been a wife.  Do you still have the death certificate and will documents?  If so could I take a look at them.  I can give you the information I have on Duncan with regards to his siblings/parents if of any help.
Thanks in advance,
Audrey