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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Famtreebuilder on Wednesday 29 July 15 03:46 BST (UK)
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I have a brick wall with a George Gourley/Gourlie born c1838 at sea between India and Glasgow. From his marriage and death certificates I know his parents were William Gourley and Ann Johnston. George got married on 31 Dec 1859 in Holytown, Lanarshire to Mary McMurdo and I have found him and their children on the 1861 (in Dalziel), 1871 (in Hamilton) and 1881 (in Shotts) census returns. He died in 1884. His age is consistent on those and his marriage and death. His parents names are also consistent on both documents. His father William is listed as a soldier on the marriage and an army pensioner on the death.
That's everything I know - I've tried to find him on the 1851 and 1861 census returns but turned up nothing. I'm trying to find out about his parents and if he had siblings so I thought I'd ask on here and see if anyone can spot something I've missed. Thank you!
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If Gourley senior was an army pensioner, there is a good chance that his service papers still survive. Worth checking for as they might give lots of useful detail.
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Could he be in India at the time of the 1841/1851 census?
Were his parents still alive at the time of his marriage?
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Any clues in the names of the marriage witnesses?
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Hi GR2 - Yes I thought of that and have been searching for something on William the soldier - he must have an Army pension record. There's a pension record for a William Gourley I'd like to look at but I don't have a subscription to the correct website. There are also a couple of service records but the dates seem too late for him (1871 and 1879). You never know though. There's also a listing for a William Gourley on the Indian Mutiny medal rolls (1857-1859) and the 1861 Worldwide Army Index.
Thanks!
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Could he be in India at the time of the 1841/1851 census?
Were his parents still alive at the time of his marriage?
Hi Sancti and Shaun - I've thought that he could be India in 1841 and 1851 and the family returned during the 1850s perhaps when William retired as a soldier but I just don't know.
His parents are not listed as deceased on his marriage certificate and William not yet listed as an army pensioner. The witnesses haven't really given me any clues but they were Andrew Walker, George Walker and James McMurdo (James was likely Mary's father as her brother James was only 6 when she married). I've not been able to pinpoint the Walkers. George worked as a miner and his address is just listed as Carfin while Mary lived at Newarthill which isn't far away.
The marriage certificate isn't the easiest to read but looking at it closely it may even say his name was James George Gourley. There is a scribble of a word before George that I thought was part of the first column but on closer inspection isn't and to me looks like it could be James. If his original first name was James then he certainly went by George. I've checked for a James too without success.
I've also thought that if the family lived in India for any time before returning to Scotland maybe there were other children born out there so I've checked for any Gourleys born in India around the right time on the census but turned up nothing there either.
I've also looked for William and Ann thinking he must have returned and lived here with his army pension but nothing so far. They are both listed as deceased by the time of George's death in 1884.
Thanks for any help.
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William could have been a soldier/pensioner of the Honourable East India Company ((HEIC) in which case there would be nothing for him in the British Army pensioner records.
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Thanks Shaun - if there are no Army records then that could definitely explain it. I've never done any research on anyone in India or the HEIC before so I'll need to look into it.
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Try the FIBIS site. Families in British India Society. www.fibis.org
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Possible marriage in Paisley? William Gourley and Mary Ann Johnson, 23 September 1827, Middle Church.
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There's a public tree on Ancestry which has a William Gourley born 1801 in Ireland, wife Ann Johnston died 1841 in Paisley, children:
Catherine Gourley 1830
John Gourley 1831
Margaret Gourley 1833
Sarah Gourley 1835
William Gourley 1837
Thomas Gourley 1839
Marcy Ann Gourley 1841
All born in Paisley. Very few sources listed. It might be worth contacting the tree owner to see where the spouse information came from. There can't have been many William Gourley/Ann Johnston marriages.
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Thanks Shaun but I've looked into that one before - it's not the right family. William Gourley born in Ireland in 1801 is on the 1841, 1851, 1861 and 1871 census in Paisley and listed variously as either a Labourer or Brickmaker. All his children were born in Paisley and there's no George. It is interesting that the wife's name was Mary Ann Johnston though. George's mum Ann was not listed as deceased when he married in 1858 so she was likely still alive then (unless that was an omission which it could be).
Thanks J11; I'll have a look at FIBIS. I knew about it but have I've never had anyone in India to look at before.
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The India Office records, including the records of the HEIC, are in the British Library in London.
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Thanks Forfarian - yes I've found that they're in there. I've managed to look at the William Gourley British Army records online and not been able to pick anything out (that's not to say some couldn't be him but since I know so little without a mention of his wife or son's name on a record I can't really rule it in or out). I do think it very possible he was working for the HEIC though so will need to try that next.