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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wexford => Topic started by: atmartinas on Thursday 30 July 15 23:21 BST (UK)
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I was wondering why I couldn't find people I expected to find in NLI registers for 'The Ballagh' (Ferns) baptisms 1837-1853. So I decided to start on the first page and go slowly through and then I spotted on the top of the page it says 'Ballindaggin'
I have sent an email to NLI. I have been delighted with the site so far I am interested to see how promptly they reply and more importantly sort the problem.
M
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Hi,
I just had a look at your message so I went to the site to see what it was you were on about.
Yes this is correct as you said.
But if you look at Ballindaggin, you will see the Birth and Marriage books are not as the other books are. These only start in 1871.
These are pre-printed in Latin and so this was when the Parish Priests kept these books up to date and were viewed at by the Bishops to see how the Parish was thriving. The only early book I have seen like this was in Terryglass in Tipperary in 1829. Before then Parish books were only a record for the Priest and this is why they went missing when they moved Parish and Diocese.
I have corrected quite a few photo's of churches in family trees on different sites, also the spellings. Some have the new church with the old church date, so when I mention to the keeper of the tree they have both photo's then.
It was only after the 1830's that Catholic Churches were allowed to be built again. So it may be that the Church wasn't built when your people were born and the PP had to go from The Ballagh to Ballindaggin or the other way round and listed the names under their Parish, or as what will/would be the Parish.
I did ring the phone number for the Church, no answer, to find out when the church was built.
If you google it you can ring yourself. The Church is St Colman.
As far as you waiting for a reply from the NLI they are very efficient and will reply as soon as they have viewed the books and found the info.
I go to the Library in Kildare Street 2-3 times a year and having these records on line now saves a lot of time. Have you used the library to search?
You must go and see what it's like and let us all know what you think.
I am sure we will all be waiting to see your update on this.
If I am incorrect then I'm incorrect and I will learn from what you learn.
Keep up the good work
Maggsie
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I was wondering why I couldn't find people I expected to find in NLI registers for 'The Ballagh' (Ferns) baptisms 1837-1853. So I decided to start on the first page and go slowly through and then I spotted on the top of the page it says 'Ballindaggin'
I have sent an email to NLI. I have been delighted with the site so far I am interested to see how promptly they reply and more importantly sort the problem.
M
Actually, it is the correct register for Oulart, but you are also correct that it is for Ballindaggin! If you look through the register, you will see that in both the baptisms and marriages sections it clearly states that the register transitions in October 1839 from being a record for the parish of Ballindaggin (first few years/pages), to being a register for Oulart (AKA "the Ballagh"), in the later pages/years. As stated by "Maggsie", the explanation is that a priest took the register with him on being transferred from Ballindaggin to Oulart. The priest in question was Fr. Thomas Connick, who was transferred from Ballindaggin to Oulart in October 1839, corresponding precisely with the date of the location change in the register. The register also ends in 1853, which was when Fr. Connick was again transferred, this time to the parish of Monageer.
An additional important comment is that as Fr. Connick was only the curate, I strongly suspect that the register he kept is only for the marriages and baptisms he personally performed, rather than a complete record for the entire parish.
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Thanks Maggsie and Wexflyer, that really explains things.
Wexflyer I can confirm that you are spot on too in your suspicion that there is another register for the Parish which I have seen on microfilm in Wexford library.
I did find some of the records I wanted in the library but not all. It takes me an hour to get there and I am not able to spend longer than 2 hours looking at them, I get a bit lightheaded trying to find the year I need and indeed the parish I need as there are 3 or 4 parishes on the one reel. I find the new site great, possibly they haven't got the other register at NLI I will wait to hear back.
As Fr. Connick has written Ballaghkeen in Oct 1839 should I assume that he was curate in the Ballagh, where did you find that information please.
Thanks again.
M
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As Fr. Connick has written Ballaghkeen in Oct 1839 should I assume that he was curate in the Ballagh, where did you find that information please.
Thanks again.
M
Details on Fr. Connick are contained in the book "The Secular Priests of the Diocese of Ferns", which presents short biographical notes on all known secular priests of the diocese. Fr. Connick is described on page 234 (Monageer) and listed on page 274 (Oulart). It states that he was appointed to the Ballagh in October 1839.
You are correct that there is another (later) Oulart register recorded by the NLI - it is available at the Wexford library, but also online, at
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634001#page/1/mode/1up
However, you should know that there are also earlier records which were NOT recorded by the NLI - I believe they should still be in the possession of the present PP. I discovered this from the then PP when researching some of my own lines (Crean and Smyth) in Oulart. A final comment is that the NLI missed multiple registers when they microfilmed them in the 1970s.
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Thanks again Wexflyer. I am actually from Oulart but I have not lived there since 1983. Before I left I did mention to the then Parish Priest that I was interested in tracing my ancestors- he offered to help me go through the registers how I wish I had made time to go down to him to do that he was very interested. I didn't get back to family history till a couple of years ago, I think its time I acquainted myself with the current Priest.
M
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Thanks again Wexflyer. I am actually from Oulart but I have not lived there since 1983. Before I left I did mention to the then Parish Priest that I was interested in tracing my ancestors- he offered to help me go through the registers how I wish I had made time to go down to him to do that he was very interested. I didn't get back to family history till a couple of years ago, I think its time I acquainted myself with the current Priest.
M
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... Before I left I did mention to the then Parish Priest that I was interested in tracing my ancestors- he offered to help me go through the registers how I wish I had made time to go down to him to do that he was very interested.
M
That was Fr. de Val - wonderful fellow, very, very helpful.
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I came across this thread while browsing and note that there are a couple of knowledgeable people who have contributed. May I please ask a question regarding the NLI Wexford Catholic Registers?
I have searched unsuccessfully in the registers for a baptism of an ancestor in about 1863, said to have been born in New Ross. The odd thing is that I can not even find one other baptism with the same surname (and it is generally common to see surname patterns when you look through old registers). I have the same issue with a baptism in about 1864 in Wexford.
(I did search for several years after these dates)
Does anyone know if there are missing entries for this time period in New Ross, and Wexford? The dates appear to have been digitised, but I am wondering why neither of my ancestors appear in either New Ross or Wexford where they say they were born. Can anyone offer any explanations or assistance please? :-\
I apologise for hijacking your thread M.
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I came across this thread while browsing and note that there are a couple of knowledgeable people who have contributed. May I please ask a question regarding the NLI Wexford Catholic Registers?
I have searched unsuccessfully in the registers for a baptism of an ancestor in about 1863, said to have been born in New Ross. The odd thing is that I can not even find one other baptism with the same surname (and it is generally common to see surname patterns when you look through old registers). I have the same issue with a baptism in about 1864 in Wexford.
(I did search for several years after these dates)
Does anyone know if there are missing entries for this time period in New Ross, and Wexford? The dates appear to have been digitised, but I am wondering why neither of my ancestors appear in either New Ross or Wexford where they say they were born. Can anyone offer any explanations or assistance please? :-\
I apologise for hijacking your thread M.
Well, I can offer a specific suggestion, and some general comments.
The specific suggestion is that that part of New Ross lying across the river Barrow, on the Kilkenny side, is actually part of the Parish of Rossbercon (or Tullagher as the NLI seem to name it for some strange reason). So, you should probably check there too.
The general comments are:
1) Simply a case of omission or error. The omission rate, even in well kept registers, was frighteningly high. I have two great-uncles/aunts whose baptisms in the 1880s are simply not there, anywhere. In earlier generations I have many, many more "missing", who "should be" there, including in 1860's Wexford.
2) Ages on later records are commonly 10-15 years off, usually on the low side. So, you really have to check up to 10-15 years BEFORE dates of birth estimated from census or death records (even 20 years in extreme cases), not so much after.
3) It sometimes happened that a child might be born in one location, and baptized in another (rare ?).
4) That your relatives were mistaken or mis-recorded where they were born. I have seen multiple instances over the years where a stated place of birth is not in fact where I know they were actually born. e.g. not unusual for child to be born at maternal grandparents house, etc.
5) Exotic possibilities exist. I spent 20 years searching for the birth of a supposed relative, Sarah Roche, born ca 1878. Searched the whole country several times over, and all of England as well. Simply could not find her. Discovered a year ago from a will that she was actually adopted! (So never will discover her birth identity).
So, I am afraid that everything is possible, and in my personal experience, all the above happened! That said, options 1) and 2) above are by far the most likely.
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Wexflyer, many thanks for your very helpful reply and constructive comments.
Some of them I had considered, but not others. So thank you.
I thought it unusual that I could find no other events (or perhaps only one or two out of the hundreds I looked through) for both of my my surnames in both areas. I noticed the same surnames reappearing throughout the registers, as those surnames obviously were common in those areas.
I will definitely check the other side of the river, though my ancestor said he was born in New Ross Wexford, as you say he may not have known. :)
Thank you again. I have not progressed at all with my Irish research and I was hopeful when the NLI released these Catholic registers that I might have some success, so it is a bit frustrating to not find any mention of my family. I will keep looking. :)
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I will definitely check the other side of the river, though my ancestor said he was born in New Ross Wexford, as you say he may not have known. :)
Just to clarify - the part of the town of New Ross on the Kilkenny side of the river IS part of Wexford (since sometime in the 1800s), but is (was?) in the parish of Rossbercon. My father was born in that anomaly!
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Thanks for clarifying that Wexflyer. :)