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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: YO8 on Sunday 02 August 15 14:32 BST (UK)
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Seeking information on Thomas Clark born abt 1882 in Dumfrieshire, I think his father was named George and may have been a miner. Thomas was in Yorkshire about 1912 where he married and had a family. His early life is a mystery and any help would be on it would be appreciated
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I think his father was named George
Thomas was in Yorkshire about 1912 where he married
With a surname like Clark you need to confirm his fathers name via his marriage cert. Who did he marry in 1912?
The Scottish 1891 has no entry with a father George but there is a Thomas Clark aged 8 b Langholm Dumfriesshire living with Clark grandparents
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Having checked his history Thomas married Harriet Elizabeth Ruckledge in Nov 1913. As far as I can see he named his father as George on the marriage cert although I have been unable to confirm this on any of the searches that I have done. Looking for a needle in a haystack seems to cover this search. Thanks for the information Carole
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Hi
As far as I can see he named his father as George on the marriage cert although I have been unable to confirm this on any of the searches that I have done.
If you haven't had sight of the marriage cert, I can't see any way you can assume his father was George - unless you have other info not posted here.
You really need to invest in a copy of the 1913 cert
How do you know he was born in Dumfries?
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Sorry for being so vague, his father is named George on his marriage cert unfortunately no mother is stated, I don't think it was a requirement in England. He told his children that he came from Dumfries so that is all we have to go on
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Still searching for information. According to the 1939 register his date of birth was 20 November 1880 and his employment was general labourer
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These are the only ones in Dumfries from 1879-1883
1881 CLARK THOMAS M GRAITNEY OR GRETNA /DUMFRIES 827/00 0040
1882 CLARK THOMAS M LANGHOLM OR STAPLEGORTON /DUMFRIES 839/00 0077
1883 CLARK THOMAS M DRYFESDALE /DUMFRIES 820/00 0015
At this point you will have to spend some coin with Scotland's People to find if yours is here. SP birth's will show both parents, occupations as well as place of birth.
Did you search the 1891 England Census for a George (miner) with a son Thomas?
Don
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Thanks Don, I have checked the 3 records and none of the fathers were called George, it could well be he was born elsewhere and moved to the Dumfrieshire or he simply did not want to be found? I will check the England 1891 census as you suggested, the search goes on
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Quite often illegitimate children are brought up by their grandparents & sometimes named on marriages.
Is grandfather on the 1891 named George?
There maybe some clue in the names on the certs. you have if George was his grandfather rather than father.
Annie
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hi YO8
As Carole has already mentioned, you cannot really move on with the search without that 1913 marriage cert. Although, being English cert., it will only include father's name, it is 50% of the way there (assuming he gave the right name for his father).
You have a potential birth date now with the 1939 identity registration. Hopefully, this will help further now.
Monica :)
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Just been looking at www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl for the children of Thomas and wife Harriet Elizabeth. Nine (?), mostly born in Goole and Selby it seems.
Have you looked at the 1911 census for possible entries for Thomas. I can see one in Selby for example that could fit, but not with the birth place in Scotland you have been discussing.
Can't add more here as due to copyright from pay to view sites, except SP for Scotland, we cannot discuss possible 1911 census entries for England or Wales here on RC...
But, the 1913 marriage is the best place to start really now.
Monica
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....I found a Thomas Clark from Lasswade in the 1911 census lodging a few miles away from my grandmother's home and thought it too much of a coincidence, it wasn't until weeks later when I received the marriage cert. that I found out my G.grandfather was called George. There is a Thomas Clark born illegitimately about the right time in the Dumfries area but I've no way of telling if this is the right one either.
;) So you have that 1911 entry then...! And, more importantly, you do have the marriage cert already. What was George's occupation on this, mining related?
Monica
PS: Guess the illegitimate birth you mentioned from 2013 didn't follow through... :-\
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Hi Monica,
As a recap I have a copy of the wedding certain which states his fathers name as George and occupation as miner. It was not until I obtained a copy of the 1939 register that I got a birth date as all I could do was estimate his birth from his gravestone. The illegitimate birth did not follow through which now makes me think that he may have been born elsewhere and moved to Dumfrieshire with his family or it could be a red herring. Also I have not been able to find him on the 1911 census.
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Reading again through the other post, just wanted to add again here:
Could the records have been destroyed in a fire?
I have been informed by a cousin that in 1944 Thomas needed his birth certificate to complete a grant application for my aunt to attend grammar school. They travelled to Scotland (Dumfries?) to the records office and were informed that some records from that time, including his, had been badly damaged/destroyed in a fire. (He was issued with some documentation for the grant to be processed).
Have seen this kind of family lore come up before on a number of searches. All the statutory BMD records for the GROS are maintained in Edinburgh from the start of official registration in 1855. Copies of registers were inspected/copied/sent to Ediburgh by all registrars. Any possible fire would have been at a local level, but records are also in Edinburgh. Given that you have been using SP, the online window to the GROS now, and cannot find anything so far connecting Thomas to a father George would make me think that the family stories are not what they seem....but you likely know that already for sure :-\
Have you considered following through on the possible school records you refer to? Many schools have kept great historical records of pupils.
Monica
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Hi Monica, thanks once again for your assistance I do seem to be going round in circles but there must be information somewhere. I will keep searching you never know one day I might get lucky