RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: ladynicotine on Thursday 06 August 15 16:07 BST (UK)
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Hello
I'm trying initially to trace a birth record for one Ann Jones, father George, a hawker. Once she married I can trace her in the census & she gives her birth place consistently as Bexley, Kent, which was where she married John Eastwood in 1867. The catch is that she could have been born any time between 1837 & 1841 depending on which record you believe!
Having done a bit of rummaging around it would seem that Jones was a gypsy surname in that part of the world, as was Eastwood, but I'm having no luck finding the family in the 1841 or 1851 census. Does anyone have any more information about the family?
Many thanks
Lady Nicotine
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Hi
I have recently put a post on this site regarding Cooper, in searching this site I found a reference part of the cooper family referring to themselves as Jones in the 1871 census - dont know if this is of any help
good luck hunting
Wardming
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Hello Wardming
Thanks for this - it gives me another line of attack at least.
Lady Nicotine
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Hello,
I have some connections to a Jones travelling family in gravesend/Northfleet/Dartford are in Kent.
My great grandmother was Ada Jones who married into the Beeney family. Unfortunately I dont have much information on the Jones name, However I know that in the travelling communities alot of people were referred to by different names that didn't help. for example we have a lot of Johns in our family that were only ever referred to as Jack. These 'nicknames' very occassionally make it onto records.
So just going by this which I discovered with my family. There were members in the travelling communities called Ann, but their official name was Mary Ann. Its a long shot, but if she was born as Mary Ann, then you could try searching for that name to find her birth records.
everything is worth a try eh?
Shaun
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Hi Shaun
Thanks for this - I've spotted a couple of Mary Ann's, as well as Ann's, born in the right time-frame - might be worth doing some more digging along this line.
Lady Nicotine
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Hello
I realise this is an old post but I only came across it recently whilst looking for information about my own travelling ancestors from Sussex and Kent. I believe I may have found the birth registration of your ancestor Ann Jones, though she is listed under a different surname.
On the 1881 census, Ann is married to John Eastwood are they are living in Dartford, Kent with three children. I searched for the birth records of these three children and found:
- Harriet born 1862, Dartford, Kent - mother REYNOLDS
- John born 1864, Dartford, Kent - mother REYNOLDS
- Caroline born 1866, West Ham, Essex - mother REYNOLDS (listed incorrectly on census)
Interestingly, though she gave her surname as Jones when she married, she gave her surname as Reynolds when registering her children.
Armed with this, I looked for your ancestor’s birth record using the name Ann Reynolds and found:
Ann Reynolds born 1839, Dartford, Kent - mother JONES
I have seen this with my own travelling ancestors where they seem to use both their mother’s or their father’s surname interchangeably so I felt I was on the right track.
I decided to see if there were any other Reynolds children with mother Jones born around the same time and place. I found three:
- John Reynolds born 1840 Malling, Kent
- Phoebe Reynolds born 1841 Sevenoaks, Kent
- Sarah Reynolds born 1850 Sevenoaks, Kent
Of significant interest, I also found a baptismal record for Phoebe:
Phoebe Reynolds
Baptised 3 Jan 1841
St Martin’s Church, Brasted, Kent
Parents: George Reynolds (Tramp?) & Charlotte
The father’s name George and the occupation listed as (query) tramp lead me to believe that is the correct family.
So, to sum up - I believe your ancestor Ann Jones was born:
Ann Reynolds in 1839 in Dartford, Kent the daughter of George Reynolds and Charlotte Jones and that she had at least three siblings.
Sorry if I have just given you a load of information that you no longer need but I have been stuck indoors with covid and found this a relaxing way to pass the time 😂
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Hi Franco
I'm so sorry not to have replied to this before - I've not been on here for a while and for some reason I didn't get a notification. Anyway, this is amazing! I'd given up hope of finding anything more about Ann, as I'd not thought to check if there was any different information available on baptism records. It's opened up a whole new avenue for me to explore so thank you, I really appreciate it.
And I hope the dose of COVID didn't leave you with any long lasting symptoms.
Lady Nicotine
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Gosh they are hard to track down 1841/1851.
Phoebe;
1881 Census
Edward Laurel 40 Head Mar Ag Lab born Dartford
Phoebe Laurel 38 Wife born Dartford*******
Phoebe Laurel 16 Daughter
John Laurel 8 Son
Edward Laurel 5 Son
Phillip Laurel 2 Son
1871 Census
Edward S Turrell 29 Head Tanner
Mabe Turrell 29 Wife Licensed Hawker born Brasted********
Mary Turrell 8 Daughter
Phoebe Turrell 5 Daughter
Emily Turrell 1/12 Daughter
LAWLER, EDWARD GEORGE mmn REYNOLDS***
GRO Reference: 1876 M Quarter in DARTFORD Volume 02A Page 436
1911 Phoebe Lawler is born c 1844 Brasted, Kent
Interestingly there is a Marriage Reg 1858 Dartford with Phoebe REYNOLDS/William MILES on same page.
1861 Census a Phoebe Miles is a prisoner in the Gaol and House of Correction Lewes, Sussex
With her John 1860 Rye, Sussex.
Phoebe born 1842 Bexley, Kent.
Cant see a birth/death reg for him though.
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Not sure about this but posting just in case it is them.
1871 Census
Bromley, Kent
George Reynolds 64 Head Mar Hawker born Frinsbury
Charlotte Reynolds 55 Wife born Frinsbury
Elvina Reynolds 22 Daughter
Sarah Reynolds 20 Daughter***
George Reynolds 17 Son
Mercy Reynolds 15 Daughter
Thomas Reynolds 10 Son
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Bapt 13 Nov 1836 St Botolph, Northfleet
PHILLIS Daug of George/Charlotte REYNOLDS
Father a Licensed Hawker
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Hi Trish
Thanks for all of these - much appreciated. Gives me lots more avenues to explore. I've found the ones I already knew about difficult to track down in various censuses. I'm guessing it because they were moving around, and it may have given them a greater opportunity to avoid being recorded.
Lady N
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Your welcome Lady N :)