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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Rosinish on Friday 14 August 15 21:16 BST (UK)
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Hi Folks,
A bit of a long shot as I don't have much to go on ::)
I'm trying to locate William Steel(e) b 1843 South Uist, Inverness, Scotland
Son of Archibald Steele & Margaret MacRae
William had 6 siblings...
Isabella, Alexander, John (may have died young or emigrated), Marion, Farquhar, Una (dii)
All remained on South Uist but I have added them here in the hope of anyone recognising those family names as the Scots tended to stick with the same names down the line.
Last seen on 1861 South Uist census (age 17) no occupation listed
I have no other info. apart from, that he emigrated to Australia (no area mentioned)
It would be good to find out whether he married, had a family etc.
Any help would be appreciated.
Annie
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One possibility ...
From NSW BDM http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/family-history.aspx
Death 1922
William STEELE, father Archibald, no mother given, at Bathurst, reg 5054/1922
Account of funeral and some family http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article158701308
regards
Ros
adding : his daughter's name was May (married in 1917 on NSW BDM)
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Thanks Ros,
Sounds like it could be him with father Archibald ;)
Trying to find him on NSW BDM ::)
Was surprised when I saw Church of England "portion"........is that just a term for immigrants or was it because he was protestant.............if the latter he must have changed his religion as they were all Catholic in Scotland but he's not the 1st I've come across who converted.
Annie
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Ros,
Sadly, I don't think it's my William but a strange coincidence born same yr although father's name is Thomas on here so maybe Archibald was a typo ???
A quick search reveals this.........
http://www.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=illawarrian&view=0&pid=593&ver=494
William Steele b 1843 d Apr 1922 buried C. of E. Section General Cemetery Orange Road Bathurst.
married Annie C Crowley
daughter May Steele married Robert G Roy (the Mr & Mrs Roy in the obit)
Such a pity ::)
Annie
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That's a shame Annie ... :(
I'll keep looking ...
cheers,
Ros
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There are a few trees on ancestry with a William Stuart (or Stewart) STEELE born 2 dec 1843 in Scotland with parents Archibald STEELE and Margaret MacRAE who have him dying in Western Australia in 1939. (and that he married Ada GALLAGHER in Kempsey, NSW in 1885)
From W.A. BDM http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx
1939 STEELE William S , no parents given , Perth, reg 1563
I can't find anything to confirm he is the right man.
Here is death notice http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article46415304 and http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article46415304
regards,
Ros
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There are a few trees on ancestry with a William Stuart (or Stewart) STEELE born 2 dec 1843 in Scotland with parents Archibald STEELE and Margaret MacRAE who have him dying in Western Australia in 1939. (and that he married Ada GALLAGHER in Kempsey, NSW in 1885)
From W.A. BDM http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx
1939 STEELE William S , no parents given , Perth, reg 1563
I can't find anything to confirm he is the right man.
Here is death notice http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article46415304 and http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article46415304
regards,
Ros
Thanks Ros,
I can't access Anc trees for some reason................my "prescription" ;D ran out at the end of last month but I thought the trees were free access & don't know how to access them as my comp has my password on & can't access anything when I go on the site, not even free bmd's for england & wales.
The William Stewart has same date of birth but I have seen previously names from my tree all the way down to my own father but my 2 x g g/father has acquired on different trees a middle name & an extra 8 kids ;D
Will check it out if I can work out how to defunct my password. Will put a query on technical help site.
Don't be going mad as I know it's a long shot.
Hopefully the anc link will turn out to be correct though once I've confirmed all details :P
Annie
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here is his burial http://www2.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/details.php?id=KB00062222
Presbyterian ...?
regards
Ros
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Ros,
I'm not sure this is my man either ???
I got my anc password deleted so was able to look at the list with that name although no further info. but I'm pretty certain 2 of the sites are 2 of the ones that had the details wrong for my gg g/father.
Presbyterian, again, not impossible but......... ???
Would love to be able to send a message to find out how they know who his parents were ::)
Annie
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Hi Annie. This is a long shot and from what I can see quite a few years since your question? I believe I am related to William Steele. My grandfather was Alistair McRae Steele and I think the dates fit. I will have to check details with my dad and get back to you.
Warm Regards, Fiona Harrowing (nee Steele).
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Hi Fiona,
Nice to hear from you as I'm no further forward from 5 yrs ago i.e. any possible connection is well worth my interest.
I've seen trees with some info. e.g. wife named Ada Clara Gallagher having married 28 Jul 1885 MacLean, NSW & William as dying 1939 Perth, WA.
I do not have proof of either i.e. I can't verify it.
Annie
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I'm back on this trail...
Can anyone tell me how I could obtain the MC for William Steel & Ada Gallagher 1885?
I had hoped to be able to get a pdf. but it's not available...
https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search/result?4
I would love to confirm or discount this chap somehow.
Annie
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This might be his grave marker.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/213642651/william-stuart-steele
Re the NSW marriage certificate - my understanding is that “not availble” just means nobody has ordered it yet, but you can order it.
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Hi Annie :)
You can also get a transcription from a transcription agent which is cheaper and they e-mail it to you.
Here are details of the 3 official transcription agents. https://www.nsw.gov.au/topics/family-history-search/ancestry-research#Ancestry-research-help scroll down the page.
It's worth checking them all as sometimes they have happy hour specials or 2 for the price of 1 specials etc.
Ros :)
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I'm back on this trail...
Can anyone tell me how I could obtain the MC for William Steel & Ada Gallagher 1885?
I had hoped to be able to get a pdf. but it's not available...
https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search/result?4
I would love to confirm or discount this chap somehow.
Annie
Hi Annie,
This couple had the following children. I thought their names might help, if they are family names occurring in your family.
William born 1886 registered in Maclean
Amy K. 1887 Grafton
Annie B. 1890 Grafton
Archibald 1892 Grafton
Allester McR 1895 Maclean
Grafton and Maclean are neighbouring towns. Also, the fact that there are no more children fits with the family leaving the area.
Regards
Jennaya
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Some deaths of the children in W.A.
From W.A. BDM
1957 Colin Hector STEELE, father William S, mother Ada C
From W.A. MCB https://www2.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/results.php - possible children
1972 Alistair McRae STEELE, age 76, dod 5/2/1972, Mt Pleasant
1974 Kathleen Amy HAMILTON, age 87, dod 4/12/1974, East Fremantle
Not much help there ... other than the McRae as Alistair's middle name as already mentioned by Fiona.
Ros
adding : from W.A. MCB
1974 Annie Beryl BEATTIE, age 84, East Fremantle
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Thanks folks...
I have collected a mountain of info. on the family including married names of children in the obits Ros posted early on in my quest but my problem is whether or not William is my relative as nothing so far points to his parentage or origins hence I'd like the marriage details.
I'm also glad of the extra info. I don't have as I'm 90% sure this is the correct family.
Ros...
Thanks for the link for a transcription, I'll give it a try!
It does seem a coincidence with a son being named Alistair MacRae Steele as he had a brother Alexander...Alistair is Gaelic for Alexander & he would be a Gaelic speaker.
However, the addition of the middle name Stewart/Stuart is odd :-\
I can't find any info. on when William arrived in USA or Aus but I spoke with an ancestry member a while ago (2019) who says...
"Our William Stewart Steele went to sea at young age and fought in the American Civil War for the Confederacy having run guns with his brother Alistair"
I don't know where she found info. on 'having run guns with his brother' but it would be interesting to know?
The American Civil War was 12 Apr 1861 – 9 Apr 1865 which fits with my William not being on a census in the UK after 1861.
I'm going to add the info. to my tree as a 'possible' to see what shows up in links etc. as I've contacted the woman again but my message hasn't been read :(
Annie
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This might be his grave marker.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/213642651/william-stuart-steele
Re the NSW marriage certificate - my understanding is that “not availble” just means nobody has ordered it yet, but you can order it.
Hi Neale,
I went through all the Karrakatta Cemetery and Crematorium Memorials & there's probably others related to the family too.
Thanks for the info. re 'not available' but there was no indication of how to order it hence my post to enquire but I'll go with Ros' suggestion on a transcription (less expensive) & someone sent me a PM with a recommendation for one of those on the list Ros provided the link to which is great.
Annie
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Hi Annie,
This couple had the following children. I thought their names might help, if they are family names occurring in your family.
William born 1886 registered in Maclean
Amy K. 1887 Grafton
Annie B. 1890 Grafton
Archibald 1892 Grafton
Allester McR 1895 Maclean
Grafton and Maclean are neighbouring towns. Also, the fact that there are no more children fits with the family leaving the area.
Regards
Jennaya
Thanks Jennaya,
I did find the list of births on... https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search/result?3
Then info. on FindMyPast & findagrave.com
I've had great help here considering I started out with little info. so parents names on the marriage transcription will hopefully seal it.
I hadn't realised it was 5 yrs since I posted but I've been back looking at some loose ends & have tied up quite a few over the last month or so.
Annie
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Update!
I have just received a copy of the MC of...
William Steel (Widower)! Quarryman, Yamba &
Ada Gallagher (Spinster), Domestic Servant, Grafton,
28 Jul 1885 at the Manse, Rocky Mouth, NSW.
There are no parents names recorded/updated...
Witnesses are Thomas Lynch & Jane McNabb.
If anyone can find any info. on a possible previous marriage or anything else I'd be very grateful.
Annie
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Grafton and Yamba in northern NSW, so I had a look in Queensland.
There are a few possibles there.
https://www.familyhistory.bdm.qld.gov.au/
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Thanks Neale, I'll have a look but I'd also found a possible enlistment to the US Navy which I'll post later as I'd forgot about it.
Edit - This looks possible...
William Stuart Steele
Spouse Ann Agnes Donald
Date15/01/1879
Registration details:1879/C/1028
Queensland
https://www.familyhistory.bdm.qld.gov.au/details/4081b78e316520e1039d0e34d9c92c4b89d71d04ff524afca2a61d1c301165c5
I'll need to look for a death for Ann Agnes later too.
Annie
Add...I've been able to discount the above marriage as that William was born in Melrose, Roxburgh & died 27 Aug 1893 in Georgetown, Queensland, Australia
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Update!
I have just received a copy of the MC of...
William Steel (Widower)! Quarryman, Yamba &
Ada Gallagher (Spinster), Domestic Servant, Grafton,
28 Jul 1885 at the Manse, Rocky Mouth, NSW.
There are no parents names recorded/updated...
Witnesses are Thomas Lynch & Jane McNabb.
If anyone can find any info. on a possible previous marriage or anything else I'd be very grateful.
Annie
Hi Annie,
Rural NSW marriages in that era often still have NOT been reconciled by NSW BDM with the actual church record. There was a very lengthy dispute between ... decades long dispute, not resolved until mid 1890s. So the NSW civil Registrar General for BDMs was receiving ONLY SUMMARY info from the clergy. I did up a thread on how to overcome those blanks on m.c. in that era. It is now a very long thread, and it is on the NSW Resources board.
Can you type up the clergy and denomination please. I gather as the ceremony was at 'The Manse' that it is NOT a Roman Catholic marriage.
Once i know the clergy's name and the denomination I will try to help further, and of course there's likely to be the actual original parish register held at either the denomination's local archives, or at their state head quarters, or even at family history group's offices, or at independent state based Archives.
Here's the link to that now long thread.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=546609.0
I know you know that sometimes there's social announcements in the local newspapers. Many local newspapers are digitised and freely available at trove : https://trove.nla.gov.au/search/advanced/category/newspapers
So the elusive blanks on the m.c. include details about the origins of both the bride and the groom and their parentages.... in other words, the very vital info that the family history buffs need was the same vital info that the clergy declined to provide to the civil registration process for the era 1856-1895 in NSW.
In 1912 NSW BDM commenced a reconciliation process to obtain that info. They concentrated on the metropolitan Sydney records (close at hand to Reg Gen's office, and far more events in the metro area than in rural NSW). Then WWI came along, and many in the clerical staff were medically unfit to serve in the AIF front lines in Europe, but their skills were needed locally for the War Effort. So they became clerical bods in the AIF's Base Records in Sydney. After the Armistice, those same bods were at the end of the queue for getting their jobs back at Reg. General's BDM office.
The issues were a) Australia had to repay its huge war debt to Britain, and b) those who had served on the front lines were at the front of the queue for getting their NSW BDM jobs back. So, the funding for re-commencing the reconciliation of church and state bdm marriage records was abandoned, and basically has not ever adequately recommenced.
So here it is 2021, and people like me, born in NSW in the post WWII era, (1947) who learnt to write with ink and quill and then with fountain pen etc.... we can still read the handwriting. But in the 1960s, NSW state education department changed the style of handwriting taught. So people born from say 1950 were re-taught handwriting and bascially there's very few people left who can read those historic NSW BDM certificates. :'( :'( Sorry for ranting.
JM
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Grevilles Post Office Directory 1875 ROCKYMOUTH
James GALLAGHER, carpenter, South Arm (South Arm is the 'address'). None under STEELE at that Rockymouth listing.
1878 NSW Electoral Roll, THE CLARENCE.
with the surname GALLAGHER and in the Grafton Police district:
christian name, locality, qualification to vote, remarks
Charles, Ulmarra, residence, -
Thomas, Tyndale, freehold, Tyndale
Peter, Woodford island, residence, -
James, Tyndale, freehold, Tyndale
Charles, Chatsworth, residence, Chatworth island
Thomas, South Grafton, residence -
1878 NSW Electoral Roll, THE CLARENCE.
with the surname GALLAGHER and in the Lismore Police district:
christian name, locality, qualification to vote, remarks
Owen, Gundurimba, freehold, -
Patrick, Lismore, residence
........
JM
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Thanks JM, maybe 1875/1878 was too early?
Ada Clara Gallagher was born 1861 Tamworth, NSW, parents John & Elizabeth.
I discovered another little snippet which adds a little something to the possibility of William being mine...
Rocky Mouth or MacLean -
"The Presbyterian Church of Eastern Australia under the
pastoral charge of the Rev. Duncan M'Innes, who performs Devine Service in both the English & Gaelic languages"
They married in that Church & William would have been a native Gaelic speaker & although baptised a Catholic it's possible Ada wasn't?
I had found US Military/Navy Records but there's absolutely nothing concrete to say it's the same chap (born Scotland) although the dates could tie in but that's hardly real proof.
The connection to the US Military was via the ancestry member (as mentioned earlier) who didn't elaborate on what she 'knew' & she's not been online in over 1 yr.
Without evidence of William' parentage then I guess I need a DNA match to confirm?
Annie
Edit...I'd completely missed your previous post, only saw it after I posted this reply ::)
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Yes, that's a m.c. that has not been reconciled.
The clergyman's register should be extant. I will make some phone calls. Could be a week or so before I know where the register is currently held. Notice it is all in the same handwriting - the clergyman's hand. Notice there's no details in Birthplace, Age, Father's name, mother's name and maiden surname, Father's occupation and NO margin notes to the right of the witness signatures.
I can add a point of interest ... there is also NO mention of the bride needing to have someone give permission for her to marry.... so it is fair to conclude that the bride was at least 21 years of age. Consent for a minor was usually recorded in the white space to the right of the 'Married in the ..... According to ........ ;) If she was not yet 21 years of age, the NSW Marriage Act would have required the clergyman to follow up with the NSW Guardian of Minors .... via the local Clerk of Petty Sessions and/or the deputy registrar for bdm (often in rural localities the CPS was the deputy registrar).
ADD those 1876/1878 details could be family members for the bride. Brides in that era in rural NSW were often returning 'home' to be married from Mum and Dad's home. :)
JM
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The local historical society may be able to help
http://www.clarencehistory.org.au/html/research.html
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Hi,
From an online tree, so the usual precautions apply ;D
Ada Clara GALLAGHER birth 1864, Tamworth, NSW died 1956 Fremantle WA.
Married 28th July 1885, Maclean NSW, to William Stewart STEELE 1843-1939.
William Stewart STEELE born 2 Dec 1843, North Frobost, South Uist, Scotland
married 28 July 1885, Maclean NSW to Ada Clara GALLAGHER 1864-1956
A son born 11 April 1895, Yamba, NSW. Son died aged 77 in 1972 at Perth Western Australia.
No other children of the 1885 marriage are listed on that online tree.
No information on any previous marriage for William Stewart STEELE.
JM
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Re Ada C GALLAGHER ... Was she born 1861 or 1864?
NSW BDM has birth for Ada C, parents as John A and Elizabeth, birth registered Tamworth. Ref 13208/1861,
Here's some info from NSW electoral roll for LIVERPOOL PLAINS 1870 ... that's the electorate that included Tamworth.
John Ambrose GALLAGHER, of Tamworth, qualified to enrol as a voter as per his residence in Tamworth. Perhaps he was Ada C Gallagher's Dad.
NSW ER 1878 LIVERPOOL PLAINS
John Ambrose GALLAGHER, residence, Tamworth.
Greville Post Office Directory, 1875 TAMWORTH
J.A. Gallagher, "Tamworth Examiner'. :)
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/223535520 NSW Govt Gazette ... John Ambrose Gallagher, of Tamworth ... newspaper proprietor.
JM
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Yes, that's a m.c. that has not been reconciled.
The clergyman's register should be extant. I will make some phone calls. Could be a week or so before I know where the register is currently held. Notice it is all in the same handwriting - the clergyman's hand. Notice there's no details in Birthplace, Age, Father's name, mother's name and maiden surname, Father's occupation and NO margin notes to the right of the witness signatures.
I can add a point of interest ... there is also NO mention of the bride needing to have someone give permission for her to marry.... so it is fair to conclude that the bride was at least 21 years of age.
ADD those 1876/1878 details could be family members for the bride. Brides in that era in rural NSW were often returning 'home' to be married from Mum and Dad's home. :)
JM...Yes re the marriage not being reconciled (that's the word!)...I used 'updated' in my post :D
Re the age of bride Ada which you enquired about, definitely born 1861 not 1864 as on those obviously copied trees as her burial suggests a birth yr of 1866 ::)...
1861 - Australia, Birth Index, 1788-1922
Name Ada C Gallagher
Birth Date 1861
Birth Place New South Wales
Registration Year 1861
Registration Place Tamworth, New South Wales, Australia
Father John A Gallagher
Mother Elizabeth
Registration Number 13208
Ada burial...
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/213683073/ada-clara-steele
Many thanks for going the extra mile to see if you can locate the 'missing' info. from the marriage, it's very much appreciated!
I forgot to add, my Ancestry 'prescription' is up-to-date & I'm adding the info. to my tree as a 'possible' connection to see where it takes me.
I had a look at the WA site re a DC for William 1939 but I'm not understanding it fully as I think I need to have documentation of proof of relationship, also the payment is not clear on the application form itself?
https://www.wa.gov.au/service/justice/civil-law/apply-death-certificate
The fees for applying for a death certificate:
$50 - Certified Death Certificate
$35 - Reduced Fee Death Certificate (+75 yrs. old)
$20 - Uncertified copy of a Death Registration (deaths prior to 1983)
It seems where there's no consent (which I don't have) this is the info. likely to be on a DC...
If consent is not available, only confirmation of the following information will be provided:
Full name of deceased.
Place of death.
Date of death.
Registration number.
Date of birth/age.
Place of birth.
Gender.
Does anyone know if the place of birth would state where in Scotland e.g. Inverness-shire?
To date I haven't found any indication of where this William (Stewart) was born i.e. I don't know if he was born in Scotland or where?
I had also picked up a discrepancy on this William's death details of 9th Aug 1939 on the obit Ros posted Reply #5 ...
His age was given as 97 yrs & 4 mnths = April 1842
but is actual age would have been 95 yrs 8 mnths as he was born 02 Dec 1843
If I use a shoe-horn & assume whoever done the arithmetic had made an error & counted backwards from Dec - Aug that would equate to 4 mnths which might almost fit although I'm not convinced as there's still the age difference 97 v 95 :-\
Neale,
I still have to check out this marriage/death of wife prior to 1885 (2nd marriage)...
Marriage registration
William Steele
Marriage date 22/03/1866
Spouse's name Ann Elizabeth Waldron
Registration details 1866/B/1675
Annie
Add...I have found no info. on Ancestry for Ann Elizabeth Waldron (possible 1st wife) & no-one has her in their tree