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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ross & Cromarty => Topic started by: Hampshire Lass on Sunday 16 August 15 21:08 BST (UK)

Title: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: Hampshire Lass on Sunday 16 August 15 21:08 BST (UK)
I am venturing into some Scottish research on behalf of a friend.

I have looked on scotlandspeople and located the birth records for her father and his siblings between 1934 and 1953.

Please can you tell me if I pay the required £12 for an extract of a 1934 birth will this document contain parents names, in the same way an English Birth Certificate would?

Appreciate any advice. :)
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: GR2 on Sunday 16 August 15 21:13 BST (UK)
It will give the names of both parents, including the mother's maiden surname, the date and place of their marriage, the father's occupation, time, date and place of birth, and usual residence if the child was born, e.g. in a hospital. Also the name and designation of the informant.

If you already know the parents' names, you could look for their marriage certificate. It will give date and place of marriage, the names, ages, addresses, occupations and marital status of the couple. It will also give the names (including maiden surnames) and occupations of both sets of parents and whether they are still alive or have remarried, the name of the minister marrying them and the names of two witnesses.

Their marriage certificate might fall within the period when you can see it on screen at home.
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: Hampshire Lass on Sunday 16 August 15 21:21 BST (UK)
Great, thank you so much GR2  :)

I am unfamiliar with Scottish research and was unsure what was available within the last 100 years.

Thanks for your time  :)
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: IMBER on Monday 17 August 15 09:19 BST (UK)
One of the strengths of ScotlandsPeople is the background information and examples provided:

http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/Content/Help/index.aspx?r=554&403

Imber
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: Hampshire Lass on Monday 17 August 15 09:47 BST (UK)
Yes, I'm so excited by what I've found.

I have the marriage images of 2 generations now....... and they do contain a lot of information.

I also ordered a birth extract, so will be watching for the postman in about 2 weeks time.
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: Hampshire Lass on Monday 17 August 15 20:23 BST (UK)
Now I'm feeling a little confused by one of the marriage images.

 The address of the bride is shown on the document but it is also this address which appears in the first column, under the details of where the marriage took place.

Would it be possible to be married at home?
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 17 August 15 20:39 BST (UK)
Hi HL,

Can you post the details how they were written (worded), names date & address etc. please for us to establish where the address is/was  ???

Annie
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: Hampshire Lass on Monday 17 August 15 20:51 BST (UK)
Hi Annie,

Samuel McClymont married Henrietta Mackay on 26th April 1935 in the District of Tain. The first column states they were married on this date at 11 New Street, Inver.

In the column headed "usual address" Henrietta's address is also shown as 11 New Street, Inver.

 One of the witnesses is Margaret Mackay and her address is also shown as 11 New Street, Inver.
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 17 August 15 21:00 BST (UK)
HL,

From what's written, it sure looks like it would have been at the brides address...............

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/11+new+street,+inver,+tain/@57.8200505,-3.914479,3a,75y,336.47h,83.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6UzbPMU_8Jhg9Jclne_y8g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x7d87a9ed37a052db!6m1!1e1

Sorry for the long link  :-[

Annie
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 17 August 15 21:07 BST (UK)
Who was Henrietta's parent's & what year was she born  ???

Annie
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: Hampshire Lass on Monday 17 August 15 21:11 BST (UK)
The marriage image also gives details of her age and her parents names. She was born in 1915 and her parents are Walter MacKay and Margaret Mackenzie.

I've just found the image of their marriage in 1915 and they are living at.......  11 New St, Inver.

Seems so odd to me to marry in their own home. Is this allowed in Scotland?
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: loobylooayr on Monday 17 August 15 21:15 BST (UK)
Hi Hampshire Lass.

Yes in my experience it was common to be married in your own home, or in the case of farm workers at the farm where they worked or at the Manse (minister's house). Church weddings were not as common for the ordinary working couple .

Looby :)
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 17 August 15 21:16 BST (UK)
I'm not sure to be honest back then but I wouldn't doubt it.

Did it mention anything about a license & who conducted the marriage  ???

Annie
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: loobylooayr on Monday 17 August 15 21:19 BST (UK)
Should have added - I think as long as a Minister agreed and conducted the ceremony properly (banns posted etc etc ) you could get married at home or elsewhere.
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: Hampshire Lass on Monday 17 August 15 21:26 BST (UK)
The marriage for her parents was also in the bride's home address.

Both marriages were by banns and the United Free Church of Scotland is mentioned.

Love your avatar Looby  :)

Thank you both for your help  :)
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: loobylooayr on Monday 17 August 15 21:43 BST (UK)
No problem Hampshire Lass - Good luck with the rest of the research.
My avatar is our rescued farm kitten - had him 4 years and he's still a bit wild !!

Looby :)
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: Skoosh on Monday 17 August 15 22:40 BST (UK)
@HL,  here's a couple of sites covering Inver, I have Mackenzies from that neck of the woods myself, Inver is full of folk called Skinner if I remember aright,

http://www.tainmuseum.org.uk/
http://www.fearnpeninsula.org.uk/

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: Hampshire Lass on Monday 17 August 15 23:08 BST (UK)
That's wonderful Skoosh  :)

Will have a closer look at the links tomorrow but they both look very interesting.

Give your farm kitten/cat a stroke from me Looby.  :)

Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: ev on Tuesday 18 August 15 08:33 BST (UK)
Hi ,

Quote
Seems so odd to me to marry in their own home. Is this allowed in Scotland?

Previous explanation from Forfarian -

Obviously, since it was performed according to the forms (or sometimes rites) of a church, it was a religious ceremony, but not a church ceremony. Getting married in a church is a relatively recent fashion. Until the 20th century most wedding ceremonies were held in the bride's home (I was a bridesmaid at a friend's wedding in the living room of her parents' home in 1978), or in her employer's home if she had no parental home or it was too far away for her to go home for her wedding. Sometimes the wedding was performed in the Manse, which was the home of the officiating minister. In the late 19th century people began to hold the ceremony in hotels or restaurants. Basically you could get married in any building you liked as long as you could find a priest or minister willing to perform the ceremony there.

There was no formal civil ceremony in 1910. If you wanted to get married without involving a minister or priest, you could get married by declaring yourselves to be married in front of witnesses. You could then go with your witnesses to the sheriff court and get a warrant which allowed you to have your marriage entered in the statutory civil register of marriage.



ev
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: Hampshire Lass on Tuesday 18 August 15 08:42 BST (UK)
Thank you so much ev.  :)

For a minute there I thought I had completely missed a reply on this thread  :)

Anyway, very interesting and obviously what happened in the case of these two generations.

You (I) learn something new everyday  :)
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: ev on Tuesday 18 August 15 10:48 BST (UK)
..... and thank you , Forfarian  :)




ev
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: Hampshire Lass on Tuesday 18 August 15 11:51 BST (UK)
..... and thank you , Forfarian  :)
ev

Oh yes indeed  :)

Trouble is that the reply is from another thread and he/she will not realise how grateful I am to them for  sharing their knowledge.
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: don_niagara on Sunday 23 August 15 02:56 BST (UK)
The marriage image also gives details of her age and her parents names. She was born in 1915 and her parents are Walter MacKay and Margaret Mackenzie.

I've just found the image of their marriage in 1915 and they are living at.......  11 New St, Inver.

Seems so odd to me to marry in their own home. Is this allowed in Scotland?

Hiya,

I had MacKenzie cousins a few Households away at 5 New Street, age seems a bit young but there was a daughter Margaret born 1894 or 1895, perhaps the Margaret who married 1915 to Walter MacKay and had daughter Henrietta later same year? "My" Margaret had parents John MacKenzie and Margaret Ross. Do they match the parents of "your" Margaret from her 1915 marriage reg?
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: Hampshire Lass on Sunday 23 August 15 07:13 BST (UK)
Hi  :)

Yes the parents of Margaret are John MacKenzie and Margaret Ross.

I am doing a small amount of family research for a friend and John and Margaret MacKenzie are her 2x great grandparents. Does that mean that you and my friend are cousins?

The marriage image from Scotlandspeople shows that Margaret was 20 when she married. As you said ...... quite young.

I hadn't done any Scottish research prior to last weekend and am amazed at the wealth of information contained in each of their records. Wish the English ones were the same.
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: don_niagara on Sunday 23 August 15 12:43 BST (UK)
Hi  :)

Yes the parents of Margaret are John MacKenzie and Margaret Ross.

I am doing a small amount of family research for a friend and John and Margaret MacKenzie are her 2x great grandparents. Does that mean that you and my friend are cousins?

Yes! in brief, John MK was born 1858 at Polglass in Coigach, Parish of Lochbroom on the west coast, I have a fairly large website focused on genealogy and history of Coigach;
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~coigach (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~coigach)

You can see John in the annotated census transcripts there by following the links to Polglass, or jump directly to;
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~coigach/polgl.htm#61-23 (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~coigach/polgl.htm#61-23)

John's mother was Murdina MacLeod, born about 1829 and baptized 25 October, 1829 at the Coigach village of Achiltibuie (follow links in the annotated census back each 10 years and between villages)

Murdina's parents had married a few years previous, at the Coigach village of Reiff. The mother was Mary MacDonald, born about 1801. Mary's younger brother, Donald MacDonald, was a gt-gt-grandfather of mine. Similar to your friend's MacKenzie family coming east from Polglass to Inver, my gt-grandmother about 1869 came east and married a farmer, Andrew Ross, at the farm of Lower Arboll in Tarbat Parish, that farm borders Inver to the east (Inver straddles the border between Tain and Tarbat Parishes).

So, as your friend is a gt-gt-granddaughter of Margaret, we are cousins, if I count the generations correctly, fourth cousins, three times removed. Although my focus is with Coigach, with input and correction from many of your friends other distant cousins I have charted descent of our common MacDonald ancestry, 949 people, and would be happy to share data.

Donald.
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: don_niagara on Sunday 23 August 15 14:18 BST (UK)
BTW, I see the next younger sibling of Margaret MacKenzie, Roderick (born 29 September, 1896 at Inver, died there, index on ScotlandsPeople suggests 1979) married 8 April, 1921 at Pitmaduthy Farm in Logie Easter to Jessie Mackay, I wonder if this was a coincidence, or possibly two siblings married two siblings.

Parents of Jessie MacKay were James Mackay, a Cattleman, and another Jessie (I do not have maiden surname for her), do those names match with parents of Walter MacKay from the 1915 marriage registration?
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: Hampshire Lass on Sunday 23 August 15 20:32 BST (UK)
Hi Donald, thank you for the link to your wonderful and extremely interesting website. I will show that to my friend as I know she will be interested too.

Working out relationships is always difficult but I come to 4th cousins, twice removed. Could be wrong of course, so we'll just say you are cousins.  :)

The 1915 marriage shows that the parents of Walter MacKay are Henry MacKay and Annie Skinner. I have yet to research further than that since I only started on her Scottish side a week ago. That is far, far behind your 30 years of research on your family.

Thank you also for the extra information about the ancestors of John MacKenzie. I'm very grateful for that and means that I have much more information about her Scottish side than I ever imagined I would have just a week ago.
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: don_niagara on Sunday 23 August 15 21:27 BST (UK)
Working out relationships is always difficult but I come to 4th cousins, twice removed. Could be wrong of course, so we'll just say you are cousins.  :)

Ha! Yes, After I posted that I also cut a "removed"...

Quote
The 1915 marriage shows that the parents of Walter MacKay are Henry MacKay and Annie Skinner.

So not a case of a sister and brother marrying a brother and sister. "Skinner" very much a local name as Skoosh noted up this thread, the eastern part of the village is known as "Skinnerton of Inver".

"Henry" also a name common to the area, I have seen in the Corbett family there.

Quote
Thank you also for the extra information about the ancestors of John MacKenzie. I'm very grateful for that and means that I have much more information about her Scottish side than I ever imagined I would have just a week ago.

I'll p.m. you URL for my MacDonald of Reiff chart, a non-public file as it includes some details on living people and so is only circulated to descendants, I have penciled in grandmother of your friend, Henrietta MacKay, in there at position 1-1-5-1-2-6-1

Donald.
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: Hampshire Lass on Sunday 23 August 15 21:42 BST (UK)
That's wonderful Donald, thank you so much  :)
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: Rena on Sunday 23 August 15 23:05 BST (UK)
That's wonderful Donald, thank you so much  :)

I've happened across your thread due to the mention of the M'kenzie surname and I've been smiling with pleasure at your good fortune Hampshire Lass, especially as the "bounty" now seems endless lol.

I think you must be bouncing up and down with excitement.  My quest is more or less at an end but if in the future you should hear of an amateur family historian kissing somebody's feet - it will be me  ;D ::)

Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: Hampshire Lass on Monday 24 August 15 06:41 BST (UK)
Exactly Rena  >:( >:(

and to think that a few weeks ago when my friend told me her father's name and that he was born in Scotland I told her I probably would get nowhere on that side of her family. How very wrong can you be  ;D

All the more interesting to me also as I know from a wonderful holiday many moons ago that it is a stunningly beautiful area of Scotland.
Title: Re: Ancestors from Scotland
Post by: Skoosh on Monday 24 August 15 22:03 BST (UK)
Great website Donald.  :)

Skoosh.