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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Roxburghshire => Topic started by: pelirroja on Monday 24 August 15 23:56 BST (UK)
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I found the will of my 3x great grandfather, George Renwick (1790-1867) which has led me to several questions. At the end of his life George was a tenant on Hawthornside farm in the parish of Hobkirk. The will never designates an inheritor but at the end of the will a woman named Isabella Renwick signed her name. There is no one with that name in George's family, either siblings, nieces, children or grandchildren. His wife, Agnes Kedzie, had died already but I couldn't find a second wife for George either.
Any ideas who Isabella Renwick could be? Was it common not to name an inheritor in a will in the 1860s? Finally after debts were paid, George left an estate of £1417.16. Would that be much of an inheritance?
Any help would be greatly appreciated in my search. Bev
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Hello Bev,
Might like to check this out.
ScotlandsPeople - Wills & Testaments:
10/1/1880. Isabella Renwick or Usher, Hawthornside, Hawick. Died 2/6/1878 at Hawthornside. Testate. Jedburgh Sheriff Court. SC62/44/66. View (10 Credits) (25 Pages)
That's a lot of reading for 10 Credits!
Regards, Dod.
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Hello Bev,
Isabella Renwick other surname Usher died 1878 at Hobkirk, Roxburgh aged 62yrs. (ScotlandsPeople)
1871 Scotland Census (A*try)
Hawthornside Farm House, Hobkirk.
Isabella Renwick 53 Farmer of 880 Acres born Lauder, Berwick.
A H Renwick 26 Daughter " " "
Isabella Renwick 24 " " " "
Also 1 Domestic and 3 Farm Servants.
A*try doesn't say whether people are single, married or widowed, but Isabella aged 53 on this Census is probably the same Isabella who died 1878. Her Death Certificate should give her husband's name.
Regards, Dod.
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Beat me to it Dod I think a possible marriage Isabella Usher to William Renwick 1838 showing 2 different place one in East Lothian and one in Berwick ..
1841 census address Chapel Mains Lauder Berwickshire
William Renwick b 1801 Scotland farmer
Isabel age 25
Helen Renwick age 22 Ann Renwick age 2
Ann Millar age 30 Jane Gaurly age 14
1851 no William but his wife is head occupier of 100 acres
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Beat me to it too Rosie! I was looking for an Isabella Usher - Renwick marriage. I wonder if George & William were brothers?
Regards, Dod.
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Finally after debts were paid, George left an estate of £1417.16. Would that be much of an inheritance?
Bev
Hi Bev, Yes I think that sum of money would be a substantial inhertitance for someone back in 1867.
A purchasing power calculator on http://www.measuringworth.com/ukcompare/relativevalue.php suggests that sum of money in 1867 would have the purchasing power of approx £112, 000 today or perhaps even more !
Looby :)
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Wow that sum of money left by George Renwick seems like a lot for a farmer.
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Hi, thank you for all the suggestions. RootsChat is such a help. I wrote a long reply but it disappeared and I have to quit for now, but very quickly William could be the brother of George Renwick, who was born in 1790 in Hobkirk, specifically Middleburn (a farm).
What I really need are the parents of George Renwick. His death record shows his parents as James Renwick and Jane Anderson and I've been looking for them for months! Shall return and thanks so much.
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Hi All :)
pilirroja, sometimes names in line can help. With everyones suggestions above, the Usher line seems well covered for those years http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~usher/ushersct/6307.htm Likely William had died pre-1851 from what can be seen? SP would let you confirm Isabella's marital status in 1851 - FreeCen do not have this entry unfortunately to be able to double check.
Monica
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I couldn't find the marriage of Isabella Usher and William Renwick on SP, but Ancestry has it. Also the fact that Isabella and William Renwick were living at Hawthornside when my 3x great grandfather, George Renwick, died in 1867 means they knew each other so that may account for her name being on his will. I can't find any record to show that William and George were brothers because I can't find the parents of George's who are named on the death record.
Monica, thanks for the line of names idea. In case it helps here are the children of George Renwick and his wife, Agnes Kedzie: James b.1826, Jessie Ann b.1828, Walter b.1830, Jean/Jane b.1833, Barbara b. 1834, and Benjamin b.1838. I can't believe how many Renwicks lived in the Borders region!
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There is a baptism for a William Renwick 1/6/1794 Hobkirk Roxburgh father James Renwick on Scotlands People there are 2 wills dated 11/11/1848 ..30/11/1848
William Renwick tenant of the farms of Chapelmains and Byrecleugh might be worth viewing them to see if there is any mention of a brother George ?
Rosie
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Certainly throws up a couple of possible links there, Rosie :)
Monica
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I've made some progress with all your help. William was born on June 1, 1794, four years after George, who was born in 1790.
I looked at the wills Rosie mentioned and paid to see the second one, which disclosed that William died on May 1, 1848 while he and his wife, Isabella Usher Renwick, were living at the farms of Chapelmains and Byrecleugh. She signed the document.
George and William are brothers because Isabella also signed George's will when he died in 1867. He was a tenant at the farm of Hawthornside.
So the father of both was a James Renwick and the only hint of a mother is a Jane or Jean Anderson listed on the death certificate of George.
Are the afore mentioned farms close to each other? Any ideas for Jane/Jean Anderson?
The first will says inventory and I haven't paid to see it but I could. Thanks so much.
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Thomas Renwick of Swanshiel, Hobkirk, had a unmarried Daughter called Isabella - she was living with him in the 1851 census - worth a look
If you are looking at the Usher trail it could be interest - there are reknown and very well known family
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Not really relevant, but Jim Renwick of Hawick, who is still alive, was a great rugby player for Hawick and Scotland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Renwick
Harry
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Harry, thank you for the link, which was interesting to read. There is probably some family connection from my grandfather, James Renwick (lived in Denholm) to Jim Renwick, the rugby player.
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My 4 x great-grandfather Joseph Stephenson married Margaret Renwick at Alwinton in north Northumberland in 1791. I'm descended from Joseph's illegitimate son Hugh Stephenson who was born circa 1785. Joseph died at Longyester farm, East Lothian, in 1803, and one of the relatives present when the will was read out was a George Renwick, described as brother of the widow. I have never been able to discover where Margaret and George Renwick were born.
Re Hobkirk, Joseph Stephenson's father William Stephenson, my 5 x gt.grandfather, was tenant farmer at Longburnshiels in Hobkirk parish and died there in 1807.
So that explains my interest in Renwick and Hobkirk!
Harry
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Harry, Unfortunatly my 3x great grandfather, George Renwick, was born in 1790 so that in 1803 he would have been about 13 years old and too young to read a will. Keep looking though! I know that the a James Renwick is the father of George but I can't find him either.
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I some how thought they were brothers not seeing a marriage for James Renwick to Jane /Jean Anderson ...Noticed one of Williams daughters had a middle name Henderson ? ..Have you tried looking for some burial records for this family ?
Rosie
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Rosie, You may have hit upon something. On the death certificate of George Renwick the name of his mother is Jane Anderson, but it hard to read and I wonder if it might be Henderson. I sent a message to SP and they wrote back that they will recopy the document.
Further more, I found a marriage document between a John Renwick and Jean Henderson on June 10, 1759 in Wilton, Scotland. I've found one of their children, a daughter, Jean, born June 16, 1771. I haven't found the birth dates for either John Renwick or Jean Henderson yet.
I don't know about the burial records. Where would I find those? Thank you for your insights.
Bev
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You could maybe try Jedburgh Border Family History or just google the name and see what comes up ...Hopefully when S P get back to you.. you will find out the correct name .Did you get the birth for George Renwick b 1790 on the old parish records to see if a mother was mention or place ?
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Yes, I did get a copy of the OPR baptism of George for Sept 19, 1790, but only his father, James Renwick, is mentioned, no mother. The location mentioned is Middleburn, Hobkirk, Rox. Is Middleburn a village or farm?
I will try Jedburgh Border Family History site. Another question: where would one find the burial records?
Thanks again for your suggestions!
Bev
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Hi I think if you maybe contact the Jedburgh Famiky History site they might be able to advise you ..Not sure about Middleburn I would assume it was the name of a farm ? ..I noticed there was a Benjamin Renwick baptised 26/10/1800 Hobkirk father James Renwick which might be another son seeing your George had a son called Benjamin ..Also a Janet Renwick father James think this Benjamin was with her in the 1841/1851 census ..Janet was married to a James Grieve
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Hi,
I did write an email to Jedburgh Border History so perhaps they'll have some info.
I looked on Ancestry at Benjamin Renwick of 1800 with a father of James Renwick but a mother isn't named. George Renwick lived 1790-1867 and his son Benjamin was born 1838 (can't find his death date) so I don't know how the Benjamin you found fits in, but he did live with some Grieves. The whole thing is so convoluted but I appreciate the help.
Bev
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Hi it was just a suggestion Benjamin Renwick might have been related ...Hopefully you will get word from the Jedburgh Family History
Rosie
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I'll post anything I learn either from SP or Jedburgh. Thank you for your persistence. You also mentioned the burial records. Where?
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I heard back from SP concerning the last name of the mother of my 3x great grandfather, and her name was Jane Anderson not Henderson, as I had hoped. A dead end, I guess but I'm still hoping to hear from Jedburgh.
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At least you have the name now that was recorded hope you hear from Jedburgh soon
Rosie :)
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Yes, and with the help of you and others on RootsChat, I've learned about William Renwick as brother to George, read their wills which offered more infor and was led to other resources about the Renwicks.
I'll post the response of Jedburgh Border Society should they answer my email.
Bev
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To those who had helped me try to find the parents of George Renwick: the Jedburgh Border History never answered my email about him and it's been several weeks. Nevertheless, I've certainly gained more information about the Renwicks and so again I thank everyone for all the assistance.
Bev