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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: woodydog on Tuesday 12 July 05 14:46 BST (UK)
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Hello everyone- here I am again looking for your help after drawing a "blank"!!!
My friends ancestor Sergeant Charles (we think that's his first name) Brett was murdered when carrying prisoners between the court & Belle Vue/New bailey prison in Manchester in September of 1867 (the Manchester Martyrs). We know that there is a plaque dedicated to him in St.Annes Church,St.Annes square , Manchester but would love to know how the transcription reads- oddly enough he lived in Manchester for over 10 years & many a time thought of popping into the church but never did (but he didn't know that the plaque existed then!!!!) We've tried searching the 1861 census but obviously we don't know where Charles (?) was born- I've found an entry on freebmd for the death of a Charles Brett in Manchester age 51 in the December quarter of 1867 but can't catogorically prove that that's him. On most sites we've come across he is only noted as Sergeant Brett & the daft beggar put his eye up against the keyhole as the group trying to save their friends blew the lock !!!!
Any help would be very much appreciated as we have very little more recent history to work on, thank you in advance
Rose
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Hi,
Manchester RO will allow you to order the death cert but you won't get charged if a detail you want checking does not match.
I would say you have the right man anyway
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There are many articles about this case in the Times Digital archive. One I have just read says the incident was in september 1867 and Charles Brett was 52, so I think this ties in with the death reg you have found
ec
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Hi..I think you are going to pleased with this! I looked on this site and found my Great Grandfather, a police sergeant in Somerset. I was able to order two newspaper reports for £6 each, which came in 2-3 weeks. One was of his retirement and the other was his obituary. I have looked on the site and found 25 entries (that means there are 25 newspaper reports that you can order!) for CHARLES BRETT. The various reports are about his family, the Queen's gift to, Subscriptions for, Fund, Funeral of, Memorial to, Murdered 1867 and Shot dead by Fenians.
So...good luck. If you go to
http:www.lightage.demon.co.uk/POLNOTES.htm
Look up his initials in the Major Police reports...and then print out then go to POLICE MAJOR ORDER FORM and print it out and send it off with your cheque and order for whichever reports you want...very exciting!
Good Luck!
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Apparently he left a wife and daughters and was buried at Harpurhey Cemetery. The funeral was extremely well attended by the likes of the mayor and the city council and about 400 policemen.
The distance from his house to the cemetery was about 2 miles and the pavements were lined with people 6 to 8 abrest.
From The Times, Tues Sept 24th
"Brett's relatives yesterday were almost overwhelmed by the magnitude of the popular demonstration in his honour. Considered as a public funeral, the multitudes who attended it rendered it one of the most imposing ever witnessed."
a lot of libraries have on/off site access to the Times Digital Archive
Hope this helps
ec
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Here they are in 1861
RG9/2931 foli 15 p 34
Rd Manchester
SubRD Ancoats
ED 22
7 Wilson St
Chas Brett 1816 Macclesfield Head Police Officer
Mary Brett 1814 Macclesfield Wife
Mary Brett 1844 Macclesfield, Cheshire, Daughter
Chas Brett 1847 Macclesfield Son
Elizabeth Brett 1850 Manr Daughter
ec
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Hi Rose
If I get time this week I will call at Blackley crem as they hold the register for Harpurhey cemetery/Manchester General Cemetery.
If luck is on are side they will give me a location of the burial and I will check it out with trusty camera-in-tow.
Will also try St Annes church for you.
You could also try the Police Museum in Newton Street Manchester - http://www.gmp.police.uk/faqs/about_gmp.asp but not sure on contact details
That link that zebedee put on is superb www.lightage.demon.co.uk/POLNOTES.htm
Found date of murder 18th Sept 1867 http://www.manchester2002-uk.com/celebs/murderers-manchester.html
http://irelandsown.net/1867.html read section Contemporary sources regarding the tragedy of the manchester martyrs
http://www.sakoman.net/pg/html/12961.htm WOW this seems like the whole story
Regards
Ken
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Blimey O'Reilly you lot!!! I told him you were good but never expected this! I've emailed the police museum (will keep you posted) - Zebedee I've had a good look at the Lightage/polnotes site & wow! All I need to do is win the lottery!!!The Sakoman site is just unbelievable! EC the details from the 1861 census are invaluable at least we have an idea of when & more importantly where he was born- I've been looking on ancestry & wouldn't have found him in a million years as he is listed as Brott!! I've been looking at the 1871 census & found his wife Mary & also his son Charles who was a private in the 1st btn Grenadier guards based in Berkshire but haven't been able to get any further in 1881/91 or 1901 any ideas chaps? Again to Ec the details on his funeral are wonderful- I'll go down to our local library tomorrow to see if they have access as I'd love to read it all, I'm only 50/50 on whether they will as it's not very geared up to anything to do with genealogy (everythings in Dumfries 70 miles away!) but fingers crossed. For now I'll thank you all again and see if I can find anything else- I know the poor fella wasn't the luckiest man on earth but how I wish I had one of these myself!!!
Bye for now
Rose
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Now look what you made me do in my excitement - sorry Ken your offer of St Annes & the cemetary is absolutely wonderful- Say hello to Manchester for me- if I was to list all the things we miss (my husband is also mancunian born & bred as well as my friend!) it would be endless- right this moment there isn't much I wouldn't do for a trip to Wing Yips!!!! Thank you,thank you,thank you- Rose
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Hi
If you cant get the Times Articles I can email them to you - i think, but they are so informative and so many I think, if poss, yu should read them yourself
ec
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Ken, Rose,
The people at Blackley Crem are fantastic. You'll be able to go in their index room and look up the grave receipts for yourself. (who's buried, who paid, how much, how deep etc).
And if you're planning a trip to M/cr General Cemetery, take a Rottweiler and a stab jacket ;D
Mike
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Hi Mike
I dont need a Rottweiler or stab jacket, I have lived in Harpurhey for 22 years so I know which trees to hide behind ;D
Regards
Ken
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1881
13 Naylor Street, Manchester, Lancashire
RG11/3981 f52 p11
RD Manchester
SubRD Ancoats
ED 23
Robt. Allmark 1843 Alderly, Cheshire Head Mechanic
Elizabeth E. Allmark 1850 Manr, Lancashire Wife
Robt. Henry Allmark 1876 Manr, Lancashire Son
Charles Allmark 1878 Manr, Lancashire Son
Mary Allmark 1879 Manr, Lancashire Daughter
Mary Brett 1814 Macclesfield, Cheshire Mother Annuitant
and the marriage of Elizabeth Ellen Brett (1850, Charles Bretts Daughter)
to Robert Allmark
Marriages Mar 1875
ALLMARK Robert Manchester 8d 430
BRETT Elizabeth Ellen Manchester 8d 430
1891
RG12/3257 f 5 p3
RD Prestwich
SubRD Newton
ED 31
Allmark
Robert 1842 Nk, Cheshire, Head Iron Turner
Elenor 1846 Manchester, Lancashire, Wife
Robert Hy 1876 Manchester, Lancashire Son Land?Dresser
Mary 1879 Manchester, Lancashire, Daughter
Guess Mary Brett had died by then
ec
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Sorry - I was wrong. Mary Brett was living with her other daughter Mary, by now married to Henry Atkin
RG12/3243 f 19 p31
RD Manchester
Sub RD St George
ED 8
85 Reather? St
Atkin, Henry 1842 Belper, Derbyshire Head Police Constable
Atkin, Mary 1844 Macclesfield, Cheshire Wife
Atkin, Mary 1871 Manchester, Lancashire Daughter Tailoress
Atkin, Eliza 1877 Manchester, Lancashire Daughter Tailoress Apprentice
Atkin, Annie 1888 Manchester, Lancashire Daughter
Brett, Mary 1814 Macclesfield, Cheshire Mother-in-law Living on own means
looks like this is her death
Deaths Dec 1893
Brett Mary 80 Manchester 8d 220
Here is the Atkin family in 1881
Fire & Police Station, Goulden St, Manchester, Lancashire
RG11/3998 f 44 p5
RD Manchester
SubRD St George
ED 3
Henry Atkin 1842 Belper, Derbyshire Head Policeman
Mary Atkin 1844 Macclesfield, Cheshire Wife
Charles Brett Atkin 1869 Manchester, Lancashire Son
Mary Atkin 1871 Manchester, Lancashire Daughter
Elizabeth Atkin 1873 Manchester, Lancashire, Daughter
Eliza Atkin 1877 Manchester, Lancashire Daughter
ec
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Hi Rose
This has been a great hunt
Blackely Crem have done me proud in the past but today was stunning. Asked for burial location of Charles Brett 1867 blah blah blah ... few minutes later tha lass said is that Sergeant Brett and got out a small file with burial map, photo copy of a page from a book called 150 years of Police in Manchester and it has a photo of him.
Anyway went to Harpurhey Cemetery and found grave (send PM with email address and I will forward the pictures I took)
The headstone is in good order apart from one line and it reads -:
IN AFFECTIONATE REMEMBERANCE OF SERGEANT CHARLES BRETT OF THE MANCHESTER POLICE FORCE WHO DIED IN THE DISCHARGE OF HIS DUTY AT HYDE ROAD SEPT 18TH 1867 IN THE 52 YEAR OF HIS AGE DARE NOT I MUST DO MY DUTY
ALSO MARY RELICT OF THE ABOVE WHO DIED DEC 5TH 1895 AGED 80 YEARS
ALSO WILLIAM BRETT FATHER OF THE ABOVE DIED NOV 11TH 1875 AGED 85 YEARS
ALSO ANNIES ATKIN WHO DIED JULY 1ST 1875 AGED 3 MONTHS FEED MY ? (think it may say babies)
ALSO ELLEN ATKIN BORN JAN 27TH 1880 DIED FEB 1ST 1880.
Why the headstone should say RELICT I have no idea, for your reference the grave number is 2524 c/e
Hope you like the photos
Regards
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Ken
That's outstanding!! you're a good man to get all that!!
I'm impressed!!
Annie
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Ken
"Relict" is just an old way of saying "widow"
What an amazing story!
;)
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Ken,
Well hunted. They're a good bunch at Blackley aren't they?
I think relict means widow.
Mike
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Bllllubablubba, Bllubalubba- scuse me whilst I try to get my head round everything you're all sending us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Amazing,astounding,tremendous- OUTSTANDING!!!!- I don't know enough words to thank you all- you've managed to make a 36 year old man from Withenshaw with a gob like the mersey tunnel go incredibly quiet- I fully expect him to be rocking in a corner shortly!!!! Everything you are all sending is just so................................... (pardon my french!) bloody wonderful!
Now all I have to do is prove the connection- his surname is Brett, the family have all told him that Charles was a direct ancestor of the family, as his dad said he was his great great grandad (although I don't think anyone realised how much of an impact was made by his death)- so we've got to search for the male line (my friends Grandfather was obviously a Brett 1st name unknown,his grandma was/is Hannah Kempster - no birth details known but around the 1920's) & I can't find Charles son Charles anywhere apart from 1861/71 but did find /come across another male Brett born around the dates of the other children on freebmd- can't find the right piece of paper right now- on the grounds that I might sound like I'm taking the Michael has anyone got any ideas on where to find other details on possible other sons?
For know I'll go back to my searching for Charles junior- Brott,Brett.Bratt I'm doing them all!!!!
Again you're fantastic
Rose
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Hi there
Perhaps if you told us what your friends parents names are, then granparents etc. whatever you know, we might come up with some leads for you
I must admit I did have a good search for Charles Jnr up to 1901 and didn't find anything
Might also be worth asking (specifically in another thread), if anyone can do an 1851 lookup
ec
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Hi Ken,
What fantastic information and piccies you dug up It was a real treat to follow this post ;D
Rose,
To your fella, I am right pleased he has not lost all his lanky !
Anyway, shortly up "the wooden hill" getting late
Sarah
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Details as recounted to me (sketchy i know!)
My friend is Anthony (Tony) Brett born 7/10/1968
Father:-Harry Brett born 1947
Mother:- Carol Faux born 1949
Mother of Harry
Hannah Brett ne' Kempster born 1920's who obviously married a Brett (unknown first name)
All from the Manchester area
and that's about it apart from the family hand me down tales.
Any ideas?
Rose
P.S.To Sarah Tony's not my fella but one of my fella's ( & mine) best mates!
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Hi,
I have really enjoyed following this link too...got so engrossed that I have stopped looking up my family and started reading about this one!
And I was so pleased with myself for finding the Police site link BUT, ec and Ken...you have surpassed me! Well done..I have no idea how you have found so much info but I AM impressed! It's people like you that make this family history research so much easier and fun too.
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Hi Folks
To add to the story, I have found in my local RC cemetery a monument erected in memory of the 3 accused and hanged people.
This find/information only came about last night talking to a friend about this rootchat posting, I just mentioned the Manchester Martyrs, and he recalled his dad mention a monument in the cemetery and a general location.
Well I just had to find it this morning
This monument has been the target of attack in recent years, as you can see it is still covered in paint.
Regards
Ken
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Hi Folks
If I remember rightly a railway bridge still crosses Hyde road ..... I wonder ?
;D Hope the dole dont find out about this, doing research when I should be looking for work ;D ;D RRRRR st**f em this is more fun ;)
Still got St Annes church to check and now Hyde road, if this print is correct.
Regards
Ken
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Hi Woodydog, I've really enjoyed this one too - so satisfying when my own research is pants!
Only suggestions I can really make to tie it up as we dont be able to find a male Brett going forward from Sargeant Brett is to go backwards. I note you live in Scotland so I can only really suggest that you splash out on 1837online and try and find who Hannah Kempster married - Tony presumably knows if his father had any brothers/sisters, older/younger. That should help pinpoint when to start looking for the marriage. Should then be quite straightforward to find the unknown Bretts birth - sometime in the 1920s I'd guess and that index record will have his mothers maiden name on. Then search for her name marrying a Brett and hopefully by then you will be back before 1901 and we can look again.
Do you know which area of the country we are talking about - if it is Scotland then that is a whole different ballgame and tricky because the indices are not all on line for the more recent stuff. Could that be why we can't find Charle jnr - did he move to Scotland?
I do believe that some of the Scottish LDS sites have copies of the English registers if thats a possiblity....
I suppose the other possibility is that your friend is a descendant of a BROTHER of Sargeant Brett?
ec
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1891
Folio 74
Page 14
11 Love Lane Manchester
Hannah Kempster, Age 31 Wife b Manchester, Lancashire
William Kempster age 34 Head b. Bury Lancs
Hannah Kempster age 12 Daug b. Manchester
This isn't your Hannah nor the daughter but maybe her grandmother..... :P
PM me with your email (for privacy) if you want further details.
Annie
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There is a bridge still at the site but it's not the arched one in the picture. It's been replaced by the standard wrought iron plate and girder . believe there's a plaque nearby but never seen it. Keith
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Here we go folks with an update on what I've managed to find (thought you all might like to know as this as caught all our imaginations!)
Two songs sprung from this event- "God save Ireland"- which you can actually listen to on the following link-
www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/troubles/music/trad-shtml
and "Smashing of the van" (Manchester version no less! You can see the lyrics at http://celtic-lyrics.com/lyrics/579 (apparently Chumbawumba did a cover of it on their "Rebel Songs" Album!!!
I found another copy of Kens print at -www.movinghere.org.uk/search/catalogue.asp?sequence=10&resourcetypeID=2&recordID=57515 (you can blow it up to A4 & yes we have!)
From the articles in the Times newspaper that Prue has very kindly been sending me & which I've now managed to access there is the following description:-
" When the van left the city it had to proceed over Ardwick Green & along Hyde Road, a fine open street leading to the gaol & nearly a mile in length.........
The van had proceeded about a half a mile up this road when, on passing under the viaduct which carries the London & North Western Railway across,with an open field on the right, a volley of shots were fired at it"
An open field around there? Must've been a long time ago!!!!!
I had a look on the 1901 census for a Hannah Kempster (obviously not the one we are looking for but...could be her mum) living at 15 Benson Street, GORTON (which is where some of his family are from) Hannah Kempster age 3- that search will continue............
I also worked my way back last night & found that Charles father (William Brett- name kindly provided by Ken from his cemetary crawl!) also had two other sons James christened 14 Dec 1817 in Macclesfield & William ch. 19 Sept 1819 also in Macc- both at Christ church & Ellen born circa 1830 on the 1861 census with both her parents still in Macclesfield. Pleased to say that William's occupation was a (mad!) hatter & I've always said that Tony is as mad as a hatter!!!
Now I'm presuming that there must be a number of other little Bretts between William born 1819 & Ellen (1830) but can't find any so maybe she was somewhat of a (happy?) accident!
At this point I'll just say that the fact that we are all in Scotland is of no relevance as we all came up here 3+ years ago- Tony's a Manc, hubby Andi is a Manc & me a good old Yorkshire lass (Tonys' family backwards,forwards & sideways have always been based in the manchester area).
What I do know is that Charles junior joined the Grenadier Guards & was based in Windsor in 1871 census- after that I can't trace him so he could have popped his clogs or have been based abroard with the guards?
I guess I'd better check the pennies & have a look at 1837- for now I'll away but before I go can I just ask is anyone else just the teensiest,weensiest bit jealous- I mean a rellie with 2 songs, numerous newspaper articles, discussed in parliament & even an engraving of the minutes before his death!!!??? noone did that for my molecatcher, N. Yorks in 1851!!!
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Yes! I am very jealous but revelling in reading about your friend's famous ancestor! One day I'll trace someone more famous than the farmers and servants in my family!!
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Hi KeithS
You were spot on with the plaque. This is the bridge "as you can tell not original bridge" that the killing took place
Regards
Ken
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OK so now this is getting silly, there's just so much information out there!
I've been looking at Manchester Central library site- on the photographic archive just search for Sergeant Brett & also Fenians and up pop tons of engravings & photo's- the back of the van after the attack,Charles funeral, pictures of charles, the trials etc.etc.etc even a photo of Brett Street in Wythenshawe formerley named Brown street I'll have to check that out!!
Here's a link for one of the pictures - I can't remember which one. http://www.images.manchester.gov.uk/Display.php?irn=6210&QueryPage=%2FAdvQuery.php
As far as Tonys family history goes I've now managed (after mucho searching!) to find that Hannah Kempster married Ernest Brett in Manchester in the April/May/June quarter of 1940 vol 8d page 232 . Have found his birth (I think!) Born Chorlton Jan/Feb/March 1919 mothers maiden name Hume vol 8e (or possibly c or a- although I'm pretty sure it's an e with a problem!) page 884, I tried searching for the marriage of Brett/ Hume & managed to cover the whole of 1914 (my thinking being the rush of marriages when ww1 started & not finding any other Bretts born between Ernest in 1919 & as far up as Oct/Nov/Dec 1925 so possibly he was their youngest?)- then ran out of bleedin' credits.....ah well that will have to wait for another day but only a short period of 18 years & I'm back at 1901!!
TTFN
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Finally got round to completing the quest ... St Ann's Church, St Ann's Sq, Manchester & St Barnabas, Ancoats
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St barnabas, Hayward Street, Ancoats Picture taken in 1962, it has since been demolished.
Its good to finish a task ;D
Regards
Ken
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Oh wow Ken!!
That is so cool of you! - Nice job! - I know if it was me - I'd be thrilled!!
Annie ;)
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Did not like the sockets, plugs & stickers so removed them. Forgot to mention this plaque is located in the back room of the church and not in the church area itself.
The sockets were for the kettle, sad place for the plaque.
If you get to Manchester go see this church its beautiful, the guy that showed me the plaque said, they had spent many many pounds and many months refurbishing the church and was opened for about a month before the IRA bombing of Manchester. The bomb blew out all the stain glass in the upper gallery and they had to start from scratch again, now the upper gallery has only plain glass (shame)
Regards
Ken
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Oh Ken, Thank you so very much.
I only hope I can help you out sometime........ if not then maybe you might fancy a pint or two next time we're down Manc!
Must have a look to see if any of my husbands Harris's are from the area's you are looking at- problem is that his family are so damn confusing, most dying young- with partners remarrying etc.etc
Thanks again & all the best
Rose
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Hi Rose
Phew - I am still at this one
Do you want any more information? I have a truly amazing document.
Thanks to the Duncan Broady, Curator at the Manchester Police Museum, he has sent me a copy of a notebook wrote by Charles Brett Atkin in 1901, it gives names, dates and loads of info on the Brett and Atkin family lines.
The witing is a bit hard to read, so I am going to scan the 30+pages and put them online. I am also going to try to transcribe it into a word document but both will take time.
Here is another bit of family history which I dont has ever seen the light of day except in 1867
Regards
Ken
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More information would be wonderful Ken...... I seem to have ground to a halt for now.........!
Was the j-peg you attached to the last posting just the one single page " In remembrance of Police Sergeant Brett" ? My picture viewer came up with some strange things as well as the above!!
Thank you for all your hard work what you've given me so far is amazing...
Rose
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Hi Rose
All I uploaded was the Rememberance jpeg.
What information have you on the Brett and Atkin families, it would be nice to tie in the census with this I have.
Ken
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Hi Ken ,I'll dig out what information I have from the census etc this evening when I'm back from work.
Can't wait to read the documents you've found it might just be the catagorical proof I need to tie in to Tony's family tree rather than just family stories.
Thanks again
Rose
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Hi Rose
I started last night transcribing the document and was even more surprised, the latest date I have found wrote on it is 1967 yep 1967. I suspect now that this later Charles Brett Atkin was doing his own family tree.
The museum have no idea how they came to get it.
We have an page of ship sailing between England and Australia between 1890 & 1938 and thanks to Rootschatter Genni checking passenger list found it was Charles Brett Atkin
It is a strange piece of work, will scan asap.
Regards
Ken
Ken
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Hi Ken- I haven't forgotten, just realised that info on Charles Brett Atkin is slim pickings so far- went to ancestry to do look ups & credits had been gobbled (didn't use them in time!) so have done two posts asking for help from the rest of the rootschatters rather than putting them on this thread. Will continue looking for births, marriages etc- nothing conclusive as yet tho'.
You're teasing me with these snippets- sounds like a weird & wonderful document.
Bye for now
Rose
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Rose
Another teaser ;D
This document contains a copy of Henry Atkin & Mary Atkins will's, seems she was well off.
And 2 more family names Dixon and Blanshard.
Ken
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Rose
I have scanned the document and used winrar to compress them. They can be found here on my website which is still under construction http://www.iwish2.co.uk/scans/
Please note the original scans were 10meg each so had to reduce them by a lot, but they still look good. The new file is only 8meg for all of them
I hope you find what you are looking for in them.
The photo of the plaque is in its original place at St barnabas church.
Regards
Ken
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HI Ken, I think I've managed to addle a few more brains- mine appears to be going round in circles!!
I've gone to your website & saved the file but at the moment I can't open it (she says knowledgeably!!!- yeh right!)- I think I need to download some free software to view it but as I'm bleedin awful at doing things like that I'm going to wait until my better half is at least awake, he seems to find stuff like that easy (fingers crossed.) Must remember not to bombard him before he has his 2nd coffee!!
As for information on the Brett/Atkin census- the only concrete stuff is what EC found earlier
1881-Fire & police Station, Goulden St, Manc
Henry Atkin -head-mar-born 1842- Belper,Derbyshire
Mary-wife-1842-Macclesfield
CHARLES BRETT ATKIN-son-1869-Manc
Mary Atkin-daur-1871-Manc
Elizabeth Atkin-daur-1873-Manc
Eliza Atkin-daur-1877-Manc
By 1891 Elizabeth & Charles are not with the family in what ec thinks is 85 Reather? Street & another sibling has come along
Annie Atkin-daur-1888-Manc
& Mary Brett is living with them
SandraC has turned the 1891 & 1901 census'ssss upside down & inside out & can't find Charles Brett Atkin or any connotation of him anywhere so that would seem to tie in with your emigration information- I think.
I've looked at family search, freeukgen, googled, etc,etc,etc & I'm not coming up with beggar all apart from a sore head- must get logical & methodical & anything else ending in cal!!
I'm thinking that we're all so close to finding the link with T's family it's just finding the needle in the haystack that's the problem- I'm sure SandraC will have a thick head this morning & I bet you've gone boss eyed trying to decipher handwriting- what a bunch of stars!
Will go for know, nearly coffee time for hubby- will keep you posted & let you know as soon as I get to look at the scans.
Big hugs
Rose
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Rose
To make the pictures smaller/compressed I used a program called winrar dont but know if it is free or not, If you cant get it I will place them as seperate images.
Ref: 1891 census Brett was in Australia between 1890 and 1895
Ref: 1901 census He left Liverpool for Australia again in March 1901
He spent a long time in Aus, so think you will have a line in Aus as well
Its all in the document :D
Reather street is right, It used to be about a mile from my home now.
Regards
Ken
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Hi Ken & Rose
It is possible to download free trial versions of software to decompress & extract rar files. Once you have extracted them, they are then back in the jpg format & can be read as usual.
I got mine by googling WinRAR - I won't mention the site as I have already had my posts "copyrighted" this week!
Information makes very interesting reading Ken but does look like our possible link to Charles Brett's elder son William has fallen over Rose as he died in 1860!
Back to the drawing board then for the connection to the present.
SandraC
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Hi All
The notes Ken has scanned mention Edward Brett, brother of Charles the policeman. He was b 1824 & went to India. The notes mention a son Edward b 1856 in Dessa, India.
By 1871 Edward, his mother & sister are back in Macclesfield - RG 10/3672 folio 70 pg 36. 5 Baron(?) Street. Widow Eliza [b 1828 Ireland] is clothes dealer, Mary Jane [b 1862] is scholar & Edward Owen Brett is printer's apprentice. Mother & sister details fit with the notes found.
In 1877, Edward Owen Brett marries Elizabeth Holford in Gloucester [Oct-Dec 6a 570].
In 1881, Edward O & Elizabeth are in Gloucester with Arthur Alfred b 1879 in Hull [why?] & Mildred G J b 1881 Gloucester [3 mo]. 5 Old Millbrook Street, Gloucester Barton St Mary - RG 11/2537 folio 20 pg 33. Edward is a compositor.
In 1891, Edward O & Elizabeth still in Gloucester, but obviously been about in between!
Arthur A, 1878, Hull
John E, 1882, Manchester
Mary E, 1887, Birmingham
William H, 1889, Gloucester.
Edward now print compositor & rej???
RG 12/ 2014 folio 86 pg 8 63 London Road.
In 1901, big increase in child count!
Arthur, John & Mary remain at home. William H has become Henry W!
Frank b 1892, Gloucester
George P b 1894, Gloucester
Sydney H b 1895
RG 13/2426 folio 94 pg 36 18 Worcester Street, Gloucester. Edward O is general printer & Arthur & John are news print compositors.
Fascinating stuff but absolutely no link to Rose's friend or "Harry Brett"
TTFN
SandraC
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Hi SandraC
Nice work you have done, hope Rose aint to upset. I have not been following the family line my interest is solely on Charles Brett the Police officer, I was hoping the museum had service record documents for him but alass not.
Ken
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Hello all- hope you've had a goodun'.
OK Ken- Andi downloaded the software thingammy but whether I try to save the scans file or open it I can only view images number 26- 31- tried 3 times (2 hours 18mins for each no broadband round here!)- how fed up am I? Maybe I should wait till your website's up and running rather than distracting you from the job in hand.
Sandra- don't think that anything has been disproved as yet- I think I'll have to tell Tony that HE HAS TO send off for Ernest & Kempsters marriage cert to be sure of Ernest's fathers name, it's only my guess that it's the one with the mmn of Hume..... we'll see.
Gonna get off for now as feeling very down- my best mate of 15 years, (name of Woodydog) had to be put to sleep today- might try to work out how to add his picture to my postings, then again might just go and have a good cry !!
Bye for now & thanks all
Rose
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Rose
I will put them on a CDR for you, send me your home address via PM and I will get them off to you.
Ken
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Hi Rose
Very sorry about your sad posting of yesterday. It's heart-wrenching after such a long relationship.
Take care
SandraC
PS Good luck with persuading your friend to get the certificates, as you say, this is the only way!
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Very saddened at what I found today during a grave hunt with Goldy & Migky.
Police Sergeant Charles Brett Headstone pushed over and broke in two.
I am going to take this up the Mancheters Chief Constable, it should not be left in that state
Ken
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Very saddened at what I found today during a grave hunt with Goldy & Migky.
Police Sergeant Charles Brett Headstone pushed over and broke in two.
I am going to take this up the Mancheters Chief Constable, it should not be left in that state
Ken
Ohhh thats awful Ken.
I just read thru the posting on here & to see the headstone on an earlier post & what it looks like today is so sad.
Do let us know how you get on whith the Chief Constable, at the end of the day its police history as well as social history so he should try & do something.
Gaille
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http://www.manchester-family-history-research.co.uk/new_page_17.htm
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Oh no Ken ! :o
Is there anything any of us can do .... send emails somewhere etc ?
I'd be more than happy to do something !!
Annie
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Oh no Ken ! :o
Is there anything any of us can do .... send emails somewhere etc ?
I'd be more than happy to do something !!
Annie
Hi Annie
One step at a time. :)
When I get a minute to myself I am going to write to.
Mr Peter Fahy, The Chief Constable of Manchester.
I will post the reply here when I get it.
Ken
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ive been reading peoples comments about the police officer that was killed in 1867 and it has been passed down to me from family members that my grandma that was born in 1904an that her mother not sure of the date of birth was the illigimate daughter of the officer named sergeant brett and she was born in a police station rumour has it but not sure but she seemed to know about him and the fact that he was shot amongst other stories that only someone that was around at the time could know. im from gorton manchester and i am still trying to find out more can anyone help.
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Hi Woodydog
here is Charles Brett Baptism record.
Charles Brett born 1816 Macclesfield Cheshire
Baptised 21st Jan 1816 Christ Church Macclesfield Cheshire.
Father William Brett
Mother Mary
Cheers
Ecclescake2003
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Hi Rose,
I believe we were related to Charles Brett on my Grandmothers side, he was a Great, great Grandfather, I have been speaking to my mum about it today, will see if we can find out any more information and update you. Really interesting reading this thread.
Shell
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Hi Shell
Welcome to Rootschat.
I did transcribe the documents I got from the Police Museum many years ago, this is the only live link to the PDF file on Rootchat, feel free to get it and have a read if you want.
Just to let you know this tread started back in 2005, so you may or may not get replies.
https://www.sendspace.com/file/gn5hpo
Ken
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Hello everyone, So sorry for nor replying but I didn't realise that there were any new posts on this thread. If anyone has connections to the family it would be fantastic to hear about them so that maybe we can solve the puzzle for my friend and maybe add to your family trees :) xx