RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: TashieBlu on Saturday 12 September 15 17:08 BST (UK)
-
Hello, I have hit a bit of a brick wall in my research and I am hoping someone can help. I am looking for a Walter Jones, born around 1917-1918 in England to Sarah Lillian Jones (nee Watts - date and place of birth unknown, assuming England, father James Watts) and Walter James Jones (Born Australia 1894 died at the Somme 1918). Walter and Sarah married in England in 1917, in what would have been a WW1 romance. I found a Walter Jones born 1918 in Camberwell Surrey, but I can't confirm if his parents are Walter and Lillian as it was from the free BDM list. Lillian would have been born around 1895 but I don't have any further information about her. I have looked at both English and Australian records on ancestors.com. I do have a copy of their marriage certificate.
Walter Jones SNR is my second great uncle. I am working on a family history book for my mother and would love to include his full story. His service records tell us a lot about him, but I would love to find out more about Lillian and his son Walter. I am not sure where else to look! Thanks in advance!
-
Could this be his birth registration
September qtr 1918
Walter E Jones mothers maiden name Watts
Camberwell reg district 1d 971
Welcome to rootschat :)
Sorry got a bit confused with the post - you already have this the only way to see if it is him is to order the certificate but quote who the parents are. They won't send it to you if the parents are wrong
-
Marriage December qtr 1917
Walter Jones
Lilian S Watts (spouse Jones)
Holborn 1b 1237
Index shows her as Lilian S
What age does she give when she married and what was her address and her fathers occupation
-
Thanks Rosie99, for the welcome and info! Yes that was the information I found. I wasn't aware that I would have to have both parents names to order a certificate though! I have had little trouble finding birth information in the past, from church records and bishop transcripts and the like. Walter is proving difficult to find; could it be that the document would be less than 100 years old?
-
Hi
Details of marriage
28 Oct. 1917 St George the Martyr, Queen Square
Walter Jones 24 bach. soldier of 3 Orde Hall Rd. Father: John Jones~ labourer
Lilian Sarah Watts 21 spins. " " " " " . Father: James Thomas Watts ~ carman
Witnesses: Charles Watts, Jacob Meyer and Lily Kelly
and welcome to RootsChat :)
claire
-
Her age at marriage was 24. Fathers name James Thomas Watts, occupation - difficult to read on the marriage certificate ?? cau?? Adress looks like 3 "Orde" Hall Street. Same address for Lillian and Walter.
-
Thanks Rosie99, for the welcome and info! Yes that was the information I found. I wasn't aware that I would have to have both parents names to order a certificate though!
You don't have to have any information on the parents to order a birth certificate. As you were not sure that it was the right person but you knew who his parents were I was just suggesting that you could order that cert with more information rather than 'gambling' that it was the right person. That way you don't buy a wrong certificate as they will refund if the information does not agree. ;)
Rosie
-
:-\ :-\
Born 23 August 1897
Lilian Sarah Watts
Baptism 31 March1901
Father James Thomas Watts
Mother Rose Watts
Spitalfields Christ Church with St Mary and St Stephen
-
Ahh! Got it! Thank you Claire and Rosie. My first time using any type of chat room, so apologies for the delays,,,, might have to learn to type faster! Thanks for confirming that information with me. I hope I can find out more about her son! Many thanks for your time.
-
:D wow Rosie, thank you so much!
I haven't been able to find her details. Got a big grin on my face, love piecing together my family history. And very much appreciate other people's help!
-
Siblings baptized the same day
Katey born 13 Feb 1892
Earnest " 19 Sept. 1894
Nellie " 28 Jan 1886
Fathers Occ. ~ farrier or furrier
abode: Dormitory Crispin Street
claire
-
Hi
This is a possible marriage for her parents
9 July 1882 Holy Trinity Church Islington
James Watts 22 bach. carman of 12 Essex Street. Father: Henry Watts ~commercial traveller (deceased)
Rose Renifer 23 spins. same address. Father: Henry Renifer~ gardener
Witnesses: William and Sarah Hall
claire
-
Thank you Claire! Hoping all this new information will give me a lead on her son Walter.
-
and the family in 1891 census Islington
77 St Peters Rd
James Watts hd mar 30 carman bn London St Lukes
Rose 31 " Essex
Rose dau 8 " Islington
Nelly " 5 "
Bertie son 2 "
Kate dau 1 "
Class: RG12; Piece: 168; Folio: 100; Page: 25
claire
-
James Thomas Watts died aged 38 Islington June Qtr. 1899
The family including Lilian aged 3 are in the 'Convent of Mercy' at 50 Crispin Street, Spitalfields in 1901 census
Rose Watts 38 widow furrier bn Romford Essex
Ellen 15 cap sewer " London
Kate 9 "
Ernest 6 "
Lilian 3 "
Class: RG13; Piece: 300; Folio: 113; Page: 12
claire
-
Thank you again Claire, busy adding all this wonderful information to the family history book!
-
Right
I think we can definitely say this is the correct family. Have found the marriage cert of Lilians sister Kate. She married a JAKOB MEIER, who was a witness to Lilian and Walters marriage.
St George Bloomsbury 10 Sept. 1916 by licence
Jakob MEIER 28 bach. Porter of 9 Bloomsbury Square. Father: Jakob Meier ~ railway servant
Kate Watts 26 spins. of 4 Montague St. Father: James Watts ~ carman
Witnesses: George Nav ? ? and ? ?
claire
-
Wow, can't believe you have found this much information for me, thank you for taking the time to help! I'm hoping Walter jnr married and has family I can eventually contact.
-
We really need to know whether the Walter E Jones who was born in Camberwell is definitely him then maybe we can track his life. His middle name is probably Edward but with his actual date of birth we have more chance of confirming his death date.
I can see two deaths for births of a Walter Edward born around this time but nothing to prove it is him.
Walter Edward Jones born 18 July 1918 died Dec 2005 - Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales
Walter Edward Jones born 14 July 1918 died Dec 1993 - Knowsley, Merseyside
Have you any idea what happened to his mother Lilian Sarah Jones
Rosie
-
Just speculating - we have her date of birth as 23 August 1897 from her baptism
Marriage March qtr 1929
Lilian S Jones (spouse Pederson)
Joseph N Pederson
Edmonton 3a 1068
Lilian Sarah Pederson
Birth Date 24 August 1897
Death Registration Jan 1988
Age at Death 90
Reg district Norwich 10 / 1881
The date of birth on a death certificate can be unreliable as it is only as accurate as the information the informant has. There is an entry for her on the probate index in 1988 but you would need the will for details of any beneficiaries
-
Hi Rosie, I think Lillian came to Australia, around 1919, though I haven't been able to find passenger records that match. I have a letter from her to the Australian Army asking for his war medals, she gave the same adress as Walters parents. There is also a memorium from her and her son Walter, in an Austraian newspaper in 1920 on the anniversary of his death. So I believe she must have visited Walters parents for a time. Otherwise I haven't been able to find anything further. I looked for another marriage in Australia, but didn't find anything.
-
Hi
If it's any good there is a Mrs LS Jones aged 21 with child W Jones aged 1yr on the passenger list for the ORSOVA sailing from London to Melbourne departing on the 18th July 1919.
Will have a look for any possible return now. :)
Maddie
-
Hi again
This looks like Lillian returning to UK on the SS BORDA from Melbourne to London arriving 29th Nov 1921.
Mrs L S Jones aged 24 & Master W E Jones aged 3, last known residence Australia, proposed address in UK was 18 New North Street Bloomsbury WC.
Hope this helps. :)
Maddie
-
Thats a good find Maddie. I had found the outward journey but the inward confirms his middle initial as well. ;D
-
Thanks Rosie, the marriage you found in Edmonton & subsequent death for Lilian Sarah Pederson looks like quite a good possibility, fingers crossed all fits together.
Maddie
-
Looks like 18 New North Street was a public house
http://pubshistory.com/LondonPubs/StGeorgeMartyr/George.shtml
-
Just out of interest, Joseph Niel Pederson died 17 Oct 1966 Herne Bay hospital, of Clifftown Gardens Herne Bay, probate granted to his widow Lilian Sarah.
There are also a couple of Seaman's records for him on Ancestry plus his baptism in Bermondsey, 12 August 1896.
Maddie
-
Thank you Maddie, Claire and Rosie. I have to go to work now, which is a shame because I'm excited by what you have both found! Looking forward to putting more pieces of the puzzle together. The inward/outward bound dates would fit the timeline that I believe Lilian and Walter were in Australia.
Thanks for being so generous with your time and help. My Mum doesn't have much information about her maternal side of the family and I became interested in Walter after doing some World War One research. From there I decided to try and find out as much as I could and have it documented. This means a lot to me and will mean a lot to my Mum. I am glad I got over my fear of posting on a web site and found such generous people on rootschat!
-
You are more than welcome, happy to help whenever possible.!! :D
Maddie
-
You are more than welcome, happy to help whenever possible.!! :D
Maddie
I can only agree with Maddie ;D
Rosie