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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: bigirishfamily on Monday 14 September 15 21:34 BST (UK)
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I am wondering if anyone can offer some advice on what I should do next as I try to close the loop on my great grand aunt Elizabeth (Lily) Lyons. I would love to find out when and where she died, and if possible try to locate her marriage to a Herbert Aldrich of England. I have posted what I have done, and know to date, at the following link:
https://sites.google.com/site/lyonsdrummully/big-irish-family/elizabeth-lyons (https://sites.google.com/site/lyonsdrummully/big-irish-family/elizabeth-lyons)
Mrs. Herbert Aldrich (Lily) of England, 1955
Elizabeth is mentioned in her brother George's (Canadian) obituary from 1955... "LYONS, George Hamilton - Suddenly, Thursday morning, Feb. 17, 1955, at Toronto, George Hamilton Lyons (member Zeta Lodge, No. 410, A.P. & A.M.) of 1942 Bloor St. W., beloved husband of Barbara Crilly; dear father of Frances; brother of William of Winnipeg, Joseph of Ireland, Jack of New York, Mrs. Catherine Madison and Dr. Winnifred Lyons of South Africa and Mrs. Herbert Aldrich (Lily) of England. Resting at the Turner and Porter Chapel, 436 Roncesvalles, at Howard Park Ave. Service in the chapel 10 o'clock Saturday morning. Internment Park Lawn Cemetery."
Source: Obituary - Lyons, George Hamilton - The Globe and Mail (Toronto, Ontario) - 19 Feb 1955, p 27, col 2
In February 1955, Lily would have been 63 years old.
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FreeBMD shows this possible death:
June qtr 1965
Haringey district vol 5b, page 768
Aldrich, Elizabeth age 72
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FreeBMD shows this possible death:
June qtr 1965
Haringey district vol 5b, page 768
Aldrich, Elizabeth age 72
This does look like a good possibility. Thank you KGarrad
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Hi I have looked at the electoral roll in 1965 for an Elizabeth Aldrich in Haringey, it would appear from a cursory look, that Elizabeth had been in the Moreton Road area in Tottenham, Haringey since at least 1922, in fact in 1922 also in the household were an Edmund & William James Aldrich?
EDIT just checked the possible birth of William James Aldrich the above Edmund/Elizabeth/William is NOT the death registration shown above, will have another look for you in Haringey Electoral Roll!
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FreeBMD shows this possible death:
June qtr 1965
Haringey district vol 5b, page 768
Aldrich, Elizabeth age 72
This does look like a good possibility. I guess my next action is to order a death certificate (if possible) to see if I can positively identify this as my great aunt. Thank you KGarrad
Unfortunately, Death Certificates in England & Wales don't contain a lot of information?!
The only "confirmation" you are likely to get is the informant - and that could be anybody. ::)
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Hi I have looked at the electoral roll in 1965 for an Elizabeth Aldrich in Haringey, it would appear from a cursory look, that Elizabeth had been in the Moreton Road area in Tottenham, Haringey since at least 1922, in fact in 1922 also in the household were an Edmund & William James Aldrich?
EDIT just checked the possible birth of William James Aldrich the above Edmund/Elizabeth/William is NOT the death registration shown above, will have another look for you in Haringey Electoral Roll!
Thank you for your efforts. I am working under the assumption that any marriage took place no earlier than 1932, when Elizabeth was 39 and returning from South Africa to Spofforth in Yorkshire. She does say she intends to live in England in 1932. Her brother Thomas Edward Lyons lived in Green Leas, Spofforth, so she was possibly visiting him. Thomas' surviving family have no recollection of a sister at all, which might suggest she did not stay in Yorkshire. I have nothing on Elizabeth between this in 1932 and 1955 when she suddenly appears as Mrs Herbert Aldrich.
Lily did have a sister in Scotland ("Kitty" Wilson nee Isabel Florence Eveline Lyons) who passed in 1942. I did a check for a marriage for Herbert Aldrich on ScotlandsPeople but it came up blank.
Another sister Mary Frances Wilson lived in Birmingham until her death in 1950.
Another sister Winifred Josephine Lyons moved to South Africa in 1936 - not sure where she lived but she departed from Bournemouth.
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FreeBMD shows this possible death:
June qtr 1965
Haringey district vol 5b, page 768
Aldrich, Elizabeth age 72
This does look like a good possibility. I guess my next action is to order a death certificate (if possible) to see if I can positively identify this as my great aunt. Thank you KGarrad
Unfortunately, Death Certificates in England & Wales don't contain a lot of information?!
The only "confirmation" you are likely to get is the informant - and that could be anybody. ::)
Yes you are right.
Marriage
I am struggling to find a marriage anywhere, I've looked in England, Scotland and Ireland and nothing really looks like a real possibility. A general question, let's say for arguments sake that her marriage to Mr. Aldrich was her 2nd marriage, would she then be recorded on freebmd with her first married name or her made name of Lyons?
The only marriages between 1932-1955 for a Herbert Aldrich are as follows:
Marriages Sep 1937 (>99%) Aldrich Herbert W Warne Epping 4a 1592
Marriages Jun 1941 (>99%) Aldrich Herbert H S Harold Hammersmith 1a 469
Marriages Sep 1937 (>99%) WARNE Tryphena Aldrich Epping 4a 1592
Marriages Jun 1941 (>99%) Harold Edith Aldrich Hammersmith 1a 469
June qtr 1965 - Haringey district - vol 5b, page 768 - Aldrich, Elizabeth - age 72
For this record (above) the following are two possible matches for the same person (which would eliminate my Elizabeth.
Births Mar 1890 (>99%) Aldrich Elizabeth Holborn 1b 715
Births Sep 1893 (>99%) Aldrich Elizabeth Elvina Shoreditch 1c 80
Death Records for Herbert Aldrich (all time)
Assuming her husband Herbert Aldrich died in England I have listed all records on freebmd below and am starting to eliminate them one-by-one. I am down to six possibilities.
Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page Born+/-1 Match?
Deaths Mar 1875 (>99%) ALDRICH Herbert John 0 Lambeth 1d 291 1875 No (deceased)
Deaths Sep 1889 (>99%) Aldrich Herbert 0 Mile End 1c 291 1889 No (deceased)
Deaths Dec 1894 (>99%) Aldrich Herbert 15 Smallburgh 4b 32 1879 No (deceased)
Deaths Mar 1912 (>99%) Aldrich Herbert P 8 London C 1c 36 1904 No (deceased)
Deaths Mar 1914 (>99%) Aldrich Herbert 49 Erpingham 4b 105 1865 No (deceased)
Deaths Dec 1919 (>99%) Aldrich Herbert 64 Wangford 4a 1120 1855 No (deceased)
Deaths Mar 1931 (>99%) Aldrich Herbert 47 W.Ham 4a 229 1884 No (deceased)
Deaths Sep 1937 (>99%) Aldrich Herbert E 62 Ruthin 11b 313 1875 Possible
Deaths Mar 1940 (>99%) Aldrich Herbert J 27 Blyth 4a 3289 1913 Unlikely (21 years Elizabeth's junior)
Deaths Mar 1951 (>99%) ALDRICH Herbert 66 Bridge 5b 81 1885 Possible
Deaths Sep 1956 (>99%) ALDRICH Herbert G 73 Winchester 6b 602 1883 Possible
Deaths Dec 1958 (>99%) ALDRICH Herbert W 87 Essex S.W. 5a 152 1871 Possible
Deaths Jun 1959 (>99%) ALDRICH Herbert H 70 Uxbridge 5f 158 1889 Possible
Deaths Jun 1961 (>99%) ALDRICH Herbert H 85 Edmonton 5e 252 1876 Possible
Deaths Dec 1963 (>99%) ALDRICH HERBERT H 23 KING'S L. 4B 489 1940 No (58 years Elizabeth's junior)
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A general question, let's say for arguments sake that her marriage to Mr. Aldrich was her 2nd marriage, would she then be recorded on freebmd with her first married name or her made name of Lyons?
Usually both surnames would be on the Register Indexes - she would be Elizabeth <Smith or whatever> formerly known as Lyons.
For example:
CARVER MARION MCGHIE BIRKENHEAD
DUFF MARION MCGHIE BIRKENHEAD
MCGHIE ROBERT M CARVER BIRKENHEAD
MCGHIE ROBERT M DUFF BIRKENHEAD
But, on the other hand, my gran didn't mention her maiden name for her 2nd marriage! ::)
And, just for completeness, there is no Aldrich marriage in the Isle of Man Indexes! ;D
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A general question, let's say for arguments sake that her marriage to Mr. Aldrich was her 2nd marriage, would she then be recorded on freebmd with her first married name or her made name of Lyons?
Usually both surnames would be on the Register Indexes - she would be Elizabeth <Smith or whatever> formerly known as Lyons.
Does that also apply if she divorced :-\
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A general question, let's say for arguments sake that her marriage to Mr. Aldrich was her 2nd marriage, would she then be recorded on freebmd with her first married name or her made name of Lyons?
Usually both surnames would be on the Register Indexes - she would be Elizabeth <Smith or whatever> formerly known as Lyons.
Does that also apply if she divorced :-\
Yes, but the details are informant driven! So whatever they told the clergyman or registrar ;D
See my edit to my last post for examples.
Example quoted is a divorcee; my gran was a widow.
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A general question, let's say for arguments sake that her marriage to Mr. Aldrich was her 2nd marriage, would she then be recorded on freebmd with her first married name or her made name of Lyons?
Usually both surnames would be on the Register Indexes - she would be Elizabeth <Smith or whatever> formerly known as Lyons.
For example:
CARVER MARION MCGHIE BIRKENHEAD
DUFF MARION MCGHIE BIRKENHEAD
MCGHIE ROBERT M CARVER BIRKENHEAD
MCGHIE ROBERT M DUFF BIRKENHEAD
But, on the other hand, my gran didn't mention her maiden name for her 2nd marriage! ::)
And, just for completeness, there is no Aldrich marriage in the Isle of Man Indexes! ;D
Thanks! I've learned something new :)
I can't rule out the possibility of Elizabeth visiting South Africa again after 1932 (and possibly marrying there?) She was one of nine sisters, five of whom at one time or another lived in South Africa. Records from there are sparse but I did find a few for other sisters. Eldest sister Mary Frances Wilson (nee Lyons) who died in Birmingham in 1950 actually had her ashes scattered in South Africa. The Canadian obituary for brother George also refers to another of my brick walls, sister Winifred Josephine Lyons who is a doctor in 1955, in or near (I think) Johannesburg.
They're keeping me busy this lot! ;D
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I have just checked some late C20 marriages where they involve divorced family members and they only show previous married surname on index and not maiden name of bride
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[SOLVED]
Hello all. I made a breakthrough with this brick wall recently and wish to let you all know of it. Below are the Find-A-Grave profiles I created for...
Walter Herbert Arlidge
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=182845704 (https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=182845704)
Elizabeth "Lizzie" Lyons Arlidge
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=182844642 (https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=182844642)
Just wanted to update this for anyone researching these names in future.
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Thanks for letting us know! ;D