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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: Colin D Gronow on Friday 18 September 15 11:46 BST (UK)
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Was it that bad, no one has started a thread on it?
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Was it that bad, no one has started a thread on it?
The original "new series" thread was resurrected.
I watched it, then nodded off and missed the end. I thought she needed a good talking to. Mad woman.
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I was quite interested in John Reid and the events leading to his transportation , but I found Anne Reid's reactions strange to say the least. She seemed to decide that her ancestor must really have been innocent and that he had been 'framed' by his father in law without any evidence and it was a little extreme to wish a horrible death to all concerned !
Not the best of episodes, for me at least.
Christine
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I thought the part where she kept laughing about what her g.g.uncle had done, drunkenness etc. was hilarious, I save it for my husband to see when he came in. The rest did annoy me. Why was she so uptight about how her g.g.grandfather had been treated, and blamed his f.i.l who, although she didn't seem to realise it, was also her ancestor. He would have been one of her g.g.g.grandfathers. Also, I don't know why the BBC paid for her to have a freebie to Tasmania (Van Diemens Land) - and presumably paid for her niece to fly over from Australia to meet up with her. All that info is available on line - I know as I've got similar info about my 2 x g.g.aunt and the man she met and married in Van Diemens Land - also a convict.
Lizzie
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I have just watched this on catch-up........I am TOTALLY flabbergasted!!
She was told by the expert in Tazzy that the £20 to £40 berth to return home was the annual wage of most laborours, and still we did not see her compute that her drunken hero had attempted to steal in the order of a years wage from his father-in-law. And yes, that "horrid man" WAS also her ancestor.
£50 in 1842 was the equivalent of about £4,500. Perhaps Annie Reid just has SO MUCH money she can't understand what a HUGE sum that was in 1842.
The woman stated she was "proud to be the ancestor of a convict" !! No-one even bothered to put that right!
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What a strange attitude for her to take.
When we found OH's gtx2 grandfather had to do 5yrs hard labour for stealing a cheque of a similar value C1870 we thought he deserved it. We were more concerned for his wife who had to support their 15 children, not all of whom were still at home though, but 8 under 10.
I enjoyed the part about a convict's life aboard ship and on arrival in Tasmania. We could do with more about transportation. They have so much information available in Australia.
Judy
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"Was it that bad, no one has started a thread on it?"
Yes.
The over the top hysterical laughter at the fact her ancestor was a drunk, not funny for his wife and the rest of the family, or the community, or the children he was meant to be teaching.
The threats and wishing horrible deaths on others -all very unneccessary, I thought.
After all the detested father in law did raise his grandson, feed and clothe him, despite the fact the father had stolen a fair amount of money from him.
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Right I haven't been a fan of this series as I find it a bit "dumbed down" especially how the "experts" say oh can you read that, then without waiting for a reply whip out transcribed version for the celebs to read.
But this one took the biscuit!!
I'm sure Annie Reid is a lovely lady but she did my head in!
She jumped to so many conclusions and what really annoyed me was how she felt the convict bloke was so hard done to and was picked on by his father in law (the father in law that HE defrauded and who was now raising his kids)!
Yes sending prisoners to the other side of the works was very harsh and inhumane but he wasn't exactly a saint was he!!
I actually shouted at the tele and woke up the dog!
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I managed to stay awake throughout :P
I was waiting for the next strange reaction to the information!
Why do people say ancestor when they mean descendant? ???
Kooky
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I enjoyed it! I think she's totally cracked and has some very strange ideas :D
Obviously takes against people very easily, very unfair on her f.i.l. and a lot of jumping to conclusions. It was very interesting to see transportation covered.
fizzix
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Although I enjoyed the stories and information about the convicts and transportation to Australia, I thought Anne Reid was awful! She spoke over the people who were trying to help her and kept giving her opinion without one shred of evidence. She hadn't got a good word to say about the father in law who, in spite of having his signature forged by his son in law, had taken the child in and presumably cared for him!
A poor episode which really didn't warrant a free trip out to Tasmania.
Chris
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Frankly , I was stunned :o
The story of David Husband and his son-in-law John Reid was an interesting tale only ruined by one thing - Anne Reid :-\
Her attitude annoyed me. Gales of laughter drowned out the Kirk Session records on her GG-grandfather's drunken and irresponsible behaviour. Okay, this might have been slightly amusing but it was hardly hilarious. I don't think Anne appreciated the effect John Reid's drinking, anti-social behaviour and dereliction to his teaching position could have had on his wife and children , never mind the wider community. His poor wife (Anne's GG-grandmother) dying, obviously at a young age in 1839, scarcely registered with her. I would have been wondering if John's behaviour and the stress of having to take his classes for him had maybe contributed to Margaret Husband/Reid's death.
Then there was Reid's forgery trial at Edinburgh, where it's fair to say the poor researcher looked flummoxed by Anne's "I hope they all died horrible deaths".
Her stance seemed to be that John Reid had been "framed" by his vindictive father-in-law ; I agree with others - it seemed Anne didn't realise this was also her ancestor.
By the time she got to Tasmania and was complaining that John Reid didn't get special treatment there due to his friendship with the Surgeon-Superintendent, I was ready to switch off.
But I didn't .........
I think we can all sometimes feel we know an ancestor and perhaps sympathise with them. But at the end of the day we mostly have no clue whether any of our ancestors were good, bad, angelic, evil, friendly, grumpy, quiet, loud, violent, timid etc etc.
We can only take the evidence we find and look at it in a balanced way. Just wish the production team had told Anne that.
Looby :)
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I definitely had a few WHAAAAAAAAAT! moments at her attitude ???.
But there was some really interesting research, following someone right through.
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I enjoyed it. I tried to read as much of Thomas Reid's marriage certificate at the end as possible after the mention of Everton. He was living in Everton, Liverpool at the time of his marriage. I got curious and followed him through the years:-
John Reid's son Thomas Reid married Elizabeth Evans at St Augustine's CE in Shaw Street Everton Liverpool on 26 Dec 1864. Thomas' first wife Elizabeth Evans died in 1867 and Thomas married Catherine Ryan Rainford at St John The Baptist CE Toxteth Liverpool in 1868. Their son Thomas David Husband Reid was born in Liverpool in 1870. The family were at 101 Beaufort Street Toxteth Liverpool in 1871, Cinnamon Brow Poulton with Fearnhead Warrington in 1881 and at 13 Phoebe Ann Street Everton Liverpool in 1891.
Thomas David Husband Reid married Helena Latham on 29 Sep 1894 at St Paul, Astley Bridge, Bolton. Occupation was journalist, father Thomas Reid's occupation was solicitor. TDH Reid died in Birmingham in 1906. His twice widowed father Thomas Reid was living at 33 Danby Street Everton Liverpool in 1901, at 3 Harrogate Street Everton Liverpool in 1911 and died in 1915 and was buried at Walton Park Liverpool.
Blue
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Impressive work . :D
I certainly hope that Annie offers you a fee for having done all that research for her!!
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It's all been said already :'( apart from the insight into the lives of convicts in Tasmania it did little but disgust me >:( and yes the punishments were very severe in those days. Or perhaps it was Anne's reaction that got to me.
John Reid, who had to have been well educated, by the standards of the times, but was just a "waster" (in my opinion).
He had the opportunity to earn a reasonable living to support his wife and kids but instead became a drunk and stole from his father-in-law who at the age of 60/70 was left to bring up his grandkids after their mother's death. :o
Well I have said my bit not an ancestor I would have been proud of.
Dorrie
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I have to agree with everything that everyone has said.
The information given was interesting with all the documents held over the other side of the world as well as the Kirk records it helped to put a good picture together of the man John Reid- what a balggard he was!
Whilst having an 'interesting'character in the family line it escaped her notice that she was actually related to David Husband too! What a nice tolerant, caring man he must have been to have taken in those three children and looked after them! Had they been left on their own it would probably have been the workhouse for them and who knows what would of happened to them -she never gave that a thought about that! It could of resulted in her not even having been here- um well let's think on that one! She didn't seem to give a fig for them.
Him in doors thought maybe she was in early stages of dementia to have such a warped view of everything she was told and her awful reactions to it.
I did feel sorry for all the researchers as they were at a complete loss as to what to make of her terrible comments and how funny she thought it was!
What a waste of a programme - it would have been more interesting if they'd cut her out completely! Not what you'd call a career enhancement for her.
We stopped watching Last Tango as we got quite irritated with it all and it looks like she doesn't need to act- it's her normal character.
Strange, strange lady.
What about the bit they missed out- her father was in MI6 during the war, I wonder why that wasn't included?
There must have been a great deal on the cutting room floor and they must have torn their hair out wondering what to include! What else did she say that they didn't leave in considering what was!!!
Maybe time for a rethink on the whole WDYTYA set up as some of the people they include, in my mind, don't seem to be the right material!
Oh how wonderful if they just used mere mortals like us- very unlikely.
That's my comments for now
Caroline
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What about the bit they missed out- her father was in MI6 during the war, I wonder why that wasn't included?
I'm so glad you mentioned the MI6 thing. I had read that the episode was Anne finding out about a 'spy' who was her ancestor. Then they started on the Scottish relative, I thought the 'spy' ancestor would come out in the second half...but then ???
I agree with many of the comments posted - I fell asleep too so that didn't help. Personally I think there were big parts of the story that they did not find out about. I don't think John was particularly qualified to teach in the first instance, somewhat of a waster (as mentioned) I think Annie kinda missed the point on many of the researched areas presented to her. I also think our 'experts' need to speak up more in order to guide their celebrity to get them thinking of the different possibilities!
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I too have to agree with what has been posted. Enjoyed learning about convicts being sent to Australia. But I could not understand her saying that she blamed his father in law. After all John Reid had committed a crime and he was punished for it. Nobody made him to do it.
Found my self shouting at her while watching on my computer.
Cheers
Anne
Canada
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Very well said. You are so right.
I think we can all sometimes feel we know an ancestor and perhaps sympathise with them. But at the end of the day we mostly have no clue whether any of our ancestors were good, bad, angelic, evil, friendly, grumpy, quiet, loud, violent, timid etc etc.
Looby :)
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I agree with everything that everyone says here, which must be a first. Yes, it's incredibly annoying when people say "ancestor" for "descendant". It's always that way round, nobody ever says "descendant" when they mean "ancestor".
My wife and I laughed more than we have ever done before during previous episodes of this series, which have been more likely to provoke tears than laughter. But I agree that Ann Reid's continuing defence of her naughty ancestor began to be annoying when you consider that he was a drunkard and a criminal who first of all neglected his school classes then defrauded a relative and left others, the people she was running down, to bring up his family.
It had a particular resonance for me, as I also had a great-great-grandfather from Fife who was a rogue, and who ended up in Tasmania, tho' he wasn't transported at the King's pleasure. He twice made a local girl pregnant, and in 1855, when she was about to have their second child, he skedaddled to Tasmania with his brother and never came back. The brother became a respectable farmer and is mentioned in a book about the pioneer settlers in the Sassafras area, but my ancestor became the town drunk in Launceston and I have read about his court appearances and jail sentences in Tasmanian newspapers which have been digitised and put online.
I managed to contact some Tasmanian descendants of the respectable brother, who knew that their ancestor had come over with his elder brother, who died a bachelor, and imagine their surprise when I told them that he had left some of his DNA behind in Scotland, and his descendants (not ancestors!) are a sizeable clan.
Harry
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Uhm... just watched it!
I wonder Why she judged David Husband so harshly - and Why she was so sure that poor old John Reid was the one that was hard done by.
Did she 'maybe' have more insight into what led John Reid to be the kind of fella he was! ?
Or was - her flippant attitude - due to a thorough lack of comprehension of the 'real world' --
Over the years, I have somewhat enjoyed her TV work, for instance - 'The dinner ladies' and series ONE (only) of Last Tango ..... with David Jacobi - Apart from that never watched her, didn't ever watch Coronation then or now... (please NO )
I have a feeling, it could well have been part of her TV contract to do the show, cos to be honest, she wasn't ... taking a SERIOUS interest, DAVID HUSBAND for whatever reason, whether she liked it or not (and if he hadn't she could very well never have appeared anywhere on the planet!! never mind our TV screens) -- seemed to care enough to give his grandchildren a good basic start in life... So surely there must have been more than just a FIL /SIL fallout. Maybe David, realised pdq into the marriage that this man was not what he had hoped for - for his daughter.
OOo :o WOS as my grandchildren would say.. (waste of space)
There surely must be Someone with something worth telling us - and who doesn't mind sharing left ---- :-X :-\ :-\ :-\
xin
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I thought the part where she kept laughing about what her g.g.uncle had done, drunkenness etc. was hilarious, I save it for my husband to see when he came in. The rest did annoy me. Why was she so uptight about how her g.g.grandfather had been treated, and blamed his f.i.l who, although she didn't seem to realise it, was also her ancestor. He would have been one of her g.g.g.grandfathers. Also, I don't know why the BBC paid for her to have a freebie to Tasmania (Van Diemens Land) - and presumably paid for her niece to fly over from Australia to meet up with her. All that info is available on line - I know as I've got similar info about my 2 x g.g.aunt and the man she met and married in Van Diemens Land - also a convict.
Lizzie
Couldn't agree more Lizzie, it's all on the VDL convict records on LINCS plus the criminal registers on FindMyPast and Anc, still I suppose the film crew got a nice jolly in Tassie.
I found her to be quite odd, and at the end of the programme I'd actually gone quite off her when I used to think she was quite a nice lady in Dinner Ladies and Corrie of course............. ::)
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Perhaps it was all in the name! She felt more for the Reid than the Husband cos she is Reid!
Maybe David Husband pushed for the prosecution so that he could get hold of the children and take them away from John Reid so that they would get a decent upbringing. Also what kind of life would those children have had if John Reid had returned from VDL and tried to manage their lives again - she didn't seem to factor this in.
Pheno
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She also failed to understand that these 3 children were virtual orphans with the death of their mother and the transportation of their father who had little to no chance of getting back to Scotland.
Was she not descended from one of these same children?
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I've done a little bit of research on female convicts to VDL and so far not one has been transported for their first crime, in fact they were all repeat offenders.
Does anybody know if this was the case for John Reid?
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I've done a little bit of research on female convicts to VDL and so far not one has been transported for their first crime, in fact they were all repeat offenders.
That's certainly true for my 2 x g.g.aunt. She had a conviction in 1843 for stealing a large amount of goods from her employer, then in 1847 she stole an even larger amount of goods and chattels and food from another employer. This 2nd time, she passed them to her mother who at the age of 65 was sentenced to 6 months imprisonment with hard labour for receiving stolen goods - I assume that was her first offence, or they thought she was too old to transport to Van Diemens Land.
I have details of both her crimes, the court dealings, her sentence, details of the ship she was transported on including name of the captain and the surgeon, how many other convicts were on the ship, how long it took to get to Van Diemens Land, etc. and I never stepped away from my laptop to find everything out. I do have some photographs sent via e-mail from a distant relative in Tasmania but they are also on line, now I know where to look.
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Criminal Prosecution in Scotland is a matter for the Procurator Fiscal, This farmer would have no say in the matter. I thought it was a somewhat deranged performance but that's theatricals for ye!
Skoosh.
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I have to agree with what has been said about this episode a very strange and quite savage reaction to the father in law.Something I spotted on the forged document was one of the other names was a David Reid, was this another relative he was trying to con out of money? ;)
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For one thing, in the intro Annie kept on saying how much laughter there had been in her childhood because everyone was always "drinking", so inevitably she felt the Kirk was just being picky in listing John Reid's drinking as wrong behaviour,
Also I think the fact that the grandchild was given the names "David Husband" surely suggests great gratitude?
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That's what I thought mowsehowse you not going to give your child his Gt Grandads name if he hadn't been close to him I couldn't believe what I was watching John Reid was a bad lot and she just didn't see it Think she lost the plot ,and I think the researchers thought so to by the look on their faces
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Well. My first thought on seeing this programme this morning was to rush to Rootschat to see what everybody else thought. I'm so pleased to see that I'm not the only one to have the thoughts that I did after it. I had always enjoyed Anne Reid's performances, but my goodness, how different people can be in real life! I thought she came across as the most awful 'leftie luvvie'. I mean, we can all understand being defensive of and proud of our relations, no matter what they might have done, but to heap all the blame on his poor father in law, the victim in the case, who brought up his children, was ridiculous. 'Only forged a bloody signature' indeed!' She obviously has no idea at all of the harm that this sort of crime can do. What a contrast to Jerry Hall's programme the week before, which I thought was very sweet, worrying that her great grandfather might have been a 'cad' and a bigamist. I was delighted for her that she found an interesting ancestor in the end.
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I thought she came across as the most awful 'leftie luvvie'.
Exactly my thought, but I expected to be shot down if I said that. ;)
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Very strange reaction to what was found out for her and I tend to prefer episodes where they find out about several relatives rather than concentrate on just one. Overall, an interesting story, confused by her defence of her gg grandfather and her denial of who the true victims were in the story.
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WHY did they chose this part of her history - her Fathers life sounded interesting, or maybe they couldn't go back far enough with that.... And maybe some parts still cannot be disclosed.
It was a bit of a let down. this one - but one thing I noticed... she was an extremely confident driver, for someone of 80yrs ... and that is in no way meant to sound disrespectful...
xin
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From a legal historian's point of view, i though John Reid got off very lightly. The forgery, while inept, could have secured him more than a year's wages for a skilled worker, and would have left some innocent party very short of money. My great-great-great grandfather's brother, when aged fourteen walked into a few houses and stole some small pieces of silverware and some expensive clothing, all of which was found and returned to the owners. He pled guilty and received transportation for fourteen years, so seven years for forgery and uttering was a decent result for the time.
It's also perhaps fair to note that after seven years in the sunshine of Australia, returning to wet and windy Fife and a disapproving family who know you are a drunken crook who neglected his family was never remotely plausible.
All in all, a woman whose views of the featured ancestor were simply delusional.
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I thought she came across as the most awful leftie luvvie'.
I'm not so sure about that, she seemed to think he was somehow 'better' than the other convicts as he *only* committed a white collar crime, and that he deserved preferential treatment for having been the teacher on the convict ship. My (impoverished & illiterate) ancestor was transported for the heinous stealing some straw, so by Anne's reasoning clearly deserved the harsher punishment! So she's somehow a leftie who thinks all pigs should not be equal ::)
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So she's somehow a leftie who thinks all pigs should not be equal
No she's a leftie luvvie - that is something totally different. They definitely thing all the pigs shouldn't be equal.
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So she's somehow a leftie who thinks all pigs should not be equal
No she's a leftie luvvie - that is something totally different. They definitely thing all the pigs shouldn't be equal.
I'm clearly not up on such things ;D
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I was going to watch this episode on catch-up.
Having read the comments here, don't think I'll bother .... sounds like she was a complete fraud
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I had recorded this episode and watched it tonight, I mean last night. I enjoyed the research and learning about transportation, and life in VDL. I like finding out about colourful ancestors, mine and other peoples ;D, But.... I agree with what everyone has said about Anne Reid's reactions. I was amazed to put it mildly. Very strange indeed. She seemed to have no comprehension that this guy was a drunk who committed a crime, neglected his job, his wife having to fill in for him, and David Husband took on the raising of the 3 children.
By the way, did anyone else notice that directly under Margaret Reid's death record, age 38, was baby John's death a couple of weeks later, age 8 weeks? ( Son of John Reid schoolmaster, Logie)
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Well spotted, Frostyknight. No, I didn't see that. That poor woman, what a hard time she had.
Apart from all the feelings about the totally misplaced sympathy in this case, what I thought was quite interesting was to hear about somebody who had a direct ancestor who had been transported, yet whose line all remained in England. That's a bit different, and I wonder how many other people have this in their family, but don't realise it. Like a lot of people, I suppose, my research in many lines has got fairly stuck in the late eighteenth century. All sorts of interesting things might have happened before that, which I'm blissfully unaware of!
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We had recorded this and I read the comments on here before watching it. Without knowing this, hubby came out with all the same criticisms that you all did.
I think her comment that 'in my younger days I remember my family all drinking a lot and laughing' was quite revealing and explained her reaction to John Reid's appalling behaviour, laughing at his drunken irresponsibility etc. She said at the end that her father and brothers would have laughed about his antics and loved him too.
I think her comments and reactions were a revealing insight into the lady herself.
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By the way, did anyone else notice that directly under Margaret Reid's death record, age 38, was baby John's death a couple of weeks later, age 8 weeks? ( Son of John Reid schoolmaster, Logie)
Gosh you must have eagle eyes Frostyknight ;D - well done on spotting that.
Margaret and John Reid married in November 1834. By the time she died 5 years later she'd given birth to Thomas (July 1835) ,Isabella (Oct 1836), David ( April 1838) AND John (July 1839) all while coping with John Reid's drunkenness and bad behaviour, standing in for him at the school when he couldn't or wouldn't go.
Could be that John Reid's father was a Thomas Reid ?? Second son has been called after maternal father. Daughter after maternal mother and 3rd son after father.
Dandylion mentioned spotting the name David Reid on the bill of exchange . There was a farmer of that name at Cruivie Farm , Logie on 1841 & 1851 Census. Wonder if this could be the man? :-\
As I said before an interesting family history with lots of good research. Just a pity Anne reacted as she did.
Looby :)
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By the way, did anyone else notice that directly under Margaret Reid's death record, age 38, was baby John's death a couple of weeks later, age 8 weeks? ( Son of John Reid schoolmaster, Logie)
I saw that and was surprised it wasn't commented on. At the time I assumed Margaret Reid had probably died due to childbirth and the child didn't last much longer. I've got at least 2 ancestors who died at or shortly after giving birth and their children died a few weeks later.
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I was surprised too. Maybe it ended up on the cutting room floor, who knows what Anne Reids reaction was.
Frostyknight
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I'm sure I saw in an interview with Anne Reid she said there was enough material for 3 episodes.......not sure if I'd tune in to see her again, though I've not heard of anybody having more than one programme done on them.....
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I found the episode alright, but there have definitely been better episodes. Most of the research was not done by her and she was just presented it, unlike Gareth's last week! However, I enjoyed finding out more information about the convicts (shame I couldn't get a free holiday though! ;D ;D )
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There is an interesting article in the Fife Herald 30 Sept 1841 which helps to answer Looby's question re David Reid. Having forged David Husband's signature, John Reid presented the bill to David Reid , Cruvie, and "having obtained the said David Reid's signature, did, on the 9th January 1840, within the banking office ...of the British Linen Company at Cupar , utter as genuine the said forged bill of exchange".
Other articles/notices in the Fife Herald in 1841 indicate that John Reid faced bankruptcy preceedings in that year. In June his various properties were put out to public auction - 7 Scotch acres of improved land with dwelling houses, three dwelling houses in Logie village, further lots of an acre and three quarters and an acre and a half and eight to nine acres to the north west of Logie Village with dwelling houses, stable and shed.
Another article in September refers to his neglect of duty and shows that the presbytery were he not to be convicted of forgery" will find much difficulty in ejecting him" It goes on to say" The state of parochial school law is wretched".
William
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We Scots like to boast, with some justification, of our historical parish school system which ensured higher standards of literacy and numeracy among the working classes than were common in most other countries. But not all teachers were up to the job, and there were not a few like John Reid. Someone once wrote: "In those days it was the custom in Scotland that whosoever was thought not fit to be any thing else, was judged good enough to be a teacher, and destined accordingly; and thus it too often happened that our parochial seminaries were Bethesda pools, surrounded by the lame, the halt and the paralytic, waiting for the friendly hand of patronage to lift them into office when a vacancy occurred."
In my home parish of Kilrenny in the East Neuk of Fife, the parish schoolmaster James Fleming was said in 1854 to be totally unfit for office due to his addiction to drink. But it took another seven years to get rid of him. Undeterred, in 1861 he persuaded Lord Ormidale in the Court of Session to issue an interdict prohibiting the heritors of Kilrenny from appointing another master in his place, coolly stating that he would happily resign if they agreed to pay him his full salary for the rest of his life!
But then the neighbouring parish of Anstruther produced my distant relative William Tennant, crippled since childhood by polio, who became parish schoolmaster at Dunino but ended up as professor of Oriental Languages at St. Andrews University purely on the basis of his self-taught knowledge of languages, never having taken a degree. And then there was Alexander Moncrieff, the sickly son of a Cellardyke fisherman pressed into naval service who never came home again. Mr. Moncrieff, tho' unable to go to sea himself, taught navigation to young fishermen in Cellardyke and got more of them through their seamanship exams. than any other navigation teacher on the coast.
Harry
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Harry, thanks for that additional information. You really get the understanding of what went on there during those times. Teachers, then and now, have the power and trust to inform their pupils, whether children or young people trying to improve their future lives.
A most interesting addition to this thread. Thanks again. :)
Judy
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All in all, a woman whose views of the featured ancestor were simply delusional.
I'll second that ::)
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On the other hand, under the parish appoinment system, good teachers could be removed from office in unusual circumstances.
There was a truly bizarre situation in the parish of Durness in 1823 when the Reverend Findlater refused to grant a certificate to schoolmaster William Ross of his suitability to study for Divinity at Aberdeen University, although he had been the village schoolmaster since 1811, when he was aged sixteen (1). William's brother George was the schoolmaster in the next parish where he was also secretary to the minister, who was an alcoholic.
William was duly sacked from his teaching post for his fraud in proceedings that were wholly irregular, and sued. He lost in the Sheriff Court, appealed, and won in the Court of Session. That decision was appealed to the House of Lords in 1826, but Ross was again successful. So why did Rev Findlater take against the schoolmaster? Local historian Graham Bruce explains a plausible version, that the Reverend Findlater's wife, a noted local beauty, had attracted the affections of the seventh Lord Reay, and that her progeny including the father of the later Victorian novelists Mary and Jane Findlater, were born out of wedlock and that it was to suppress this information from becoming more widely known that steps were taken to discredit the schoolmaster.
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I've done a little bit of research on female convicts to VDL and so far not one has been transported for their first crime, in fact they were all repeat offenders.
In my ONS, I have a few transportations.
One is for Highway Robbery in 1819 - the culprit had already spent 3 months in prison the previous year for assault.
The others seem to be first offences. The VDL chap in 1830 had his sentence commuted from death for Horse Stealing. He turned his life around and became a pillar of the community.
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One of my 4xGGfather's was convicted of receiving stolen goods in 1814 and sentenced to 14 years transportation, his youngest child was 2 months old when he was convicted. His family never migrated to Australia and he died in Sydney in 1844. I've yet to see the court record as they are at the National Archives but I found it interesting that the two guys who actually did the stealing only received 7 years each. Similarly, I've see that at one point the mandatory punishment for sheep stealing was death, although it often got commuted to transportation for life. By 1845 when another of my 4x GGfather's got convicted of stealing one sheep, he was sentenced to 7 years transportation but, as he was 55 years old by then, he never made Australia but spent 5 years on a prison hulk at Woolwich prior to his death. :-\
Some crimes seemed to get higher penalties than others. John Reid did seem to get off a little lightly but I suspect if this had happened earlier than the 1840s he'd probably have got a harsher punishment.
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Some crimes seemed to get higher penalties than others. John Reid did seem to get off a little lightly but I suspect if this had happened earlier than the 1840s he'd probably have got a harsher punishment.
That is correct. Annie was told by one of the experts that some years earlier fraud was a hanging offence.
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Re your comment Smudwhisk, about the receiver getting a greater punishment than the thief, this has always been the case. To this day, the penalties for handling and receiving are heavier than for stealing. The handlers 'create the market' for the thieves and are seen as bigger criminals.
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Thanks Winterbloom, hadn't really thought of it that way. I suppose I was thinking a bit like Anne Reid that perhaps he'd not known it was stolen. ;D I still hope that a more detailed newspaper report of the trial may turn up as I've read that the Assize records at Kew aren't detailed so probably won't tell me anything I don't already know. I do know from newspaper reports that he was in financial difficulties and had got caught up in a dispute over a prommissary note but again I've not found any more detail about that either. May just have to accept he'd perhaps become a bit of a master criminal. ::)
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I should add that the female convicts I have been researching were all convicted many times of what we would call misdemeanours, until I suppose the magistrates had had enough. I had one sad case recently of a woman done for receiving stolen goods, despite 3 pleas for clemency including a signed petition by about 75 of her neighbours she still had to go because the gaols were overcrowded!!
I did learn recently that anything to do with forging money or coins was considered the utmost crime akin to treason.
Smudwhisk, FindMyPast has millions of criminal registers, records and transportation registers but I don't know what year they start, I can't access my subscription as it keeps crashing on this free weekend ::) that's must be why they've given current subscribers an extra 3 days. Because we can't get online!!!! >:(
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Smudwhisk, FindMyPast has millions of criminal registers, records and transportation registers but I don't know what year they start, I can't access my subscription as it keeps crashing on this free weekend ::) that's must be why they've given current subscribers an extra 3 days. Because we can't get online!!!! >:(
Thanks Bee, I've already managed to find what I think are all the available docs on that ancestor from ancestry, unfortunately its one of the names that gets mistranscribed a lot so have had to be creative. :-\ Its those Australian records which helped confirm it was my missing ancestor. The only annoying thing is that one of them is so feint its unreadable so may have to see if I can get a Pro Researcher at some point to see if the originals are still allowed to be viewed as would like to know the details. I'm not even going to try and see if I can get a different copy since NSW archives aren't very cheap for copies and as its been microfilmed, albeit unreadable, I suspect they'd just send me another copy of that.
They've only given current Worldwide subscribers 3 extra days, those of us with Britain subscriptions haven't been as they assume that we will make use of the non-British records. I have an ancestry worldwide sub so haven't really found much extra, apart from the NSW Will Books, that can't access on ancestry but I've been using it to find some records from a friend's irish ancestors. Haven't tried today, but it was OK yesterday.
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Smudwhisk......I wonder if the magicians in the photo dept here on RC can help to make it more legible??
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Smudwhisk......I wonder if the magicians in the photo dept here on RC can help to make it more legible??
Well it was suggested previously by some on the Aussie board to post a link to it to see if anyone could help deciper. Unfortunately, nobody got any further reading it than me. :-X
I've tried manipulating it myself with little luck, its just a lot of feint blotches. I suspect the original probably may be readable, its just the microfilming has left a lot to be desired. :( As it was a letter from my ancestor in the NSW Colonial Secretary's Papers, I would be curious as to what he was writing about. Didn't help him as he still served his full 14 years. :-\
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Smudwhisk......I wonder if the magicians in the photo dept here on RC can help to make it more legible??
Well it was suggested previously by some on the Aussie board to post a link to it to see if anyone could help deciper. Unfortunately, nobody got any further reading it than me. :-X
And you posted it on the "photo restoration board" ??? I am surprised if you got no reply. I noticed something recently that had upwards of half a dozen helpful wizards having a go.
Then again I have NO expertise in that field so perhaps it is a lost cause?
What I have noticed is that on my phone, when I angle the screen, sometimes details become clearer than when I hold the screen flat.
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I agree with other chatters that this episode, though interesting on the transportation area, was spoiled by the whacky reaction of this strange lady! Listening to her hysterical laughter made me wonder if she had "indulged" in a little of the hard stuff herself prior to filming? ;) (she did reveal that her family were all fond of a drink (or two)!
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Funnily enough my wife and I thought exactly the same. I've been disappointed at the lack of reviews of the programme in the various newspapers we read. Few TV critics seem to think that series is worth reviewing.
Harry
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/tv-and-radio-reviews/11872507/Who-Do-You-Think-You-Are-Anne-Reid-BBC-One-review.html
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/tv-and-radio-reviews/11872507/Who-Do-You-Think-You-Are-Anne-Reid-BBC-One-review.html
Thank you Larkspur....... I'm thinking that is not so much a review, as a detailed report of what we saw?? But then no-one wants to get sued!!
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I think the reviewer was being polite 8)
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I think the reviewer was being polite 8)
Quite so. No-one wants to get sued. :o
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Bit of a bonus - I nodded off when this was on, just randomly changed channels to BBC 1 and it's being repeated right now on the telly at about the point where I nodded off last week :)
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I saw this last night, after having read this thread.
I thought Ann Reid was an entertaining lady. She was quite right to be horrified that her ancestor was transported for 7 years - an extreme sentence for fraud, even if it was truly fraud (who can really tell at this distance of time, without hearing the arguments and seeing the people involved).
And I found the information about Transportation fascinating, given that a relation of mine was transported at much the same time, although on the Eden to Australia rather than Tassie.
If I have one comment, it is that drunkenness can be upsetting and violent as well as entertaining.
Perhaps Annie has been fortunate in only seeing the latter - I know in my own history that hard-working men drinking their wages away in the pub, and then returning worse the wear to their wives and laying about them with their fists, were the root of the abstinence movement. My own parents saw that.
If you research your family, there are often things you come across which shock you. Sometimes there are crimes in the past, and you feel horrified that they are 'in your family'. If I was being filmed whilst discovering these things, I might well laugh (even in a horrified way), and endeavour to minimise them at the time.
At least Annie's ancestor did his best on the transportation voyage, survived his 2 years probation, and then made a success of himself. He was a bit of a bad lad, perhaps, but he certainly had a very severe punishment.
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I did find her reactions very strange.
One minute she complained because her ancestor was not treated in a 'christian' manner. Then she was hoping that everyone else involved died horrible deaths!
I also found it odd how she appeared to have no sympathy for her X times Great Grandmother. It must have been awful for her having to live with her husband's behaviour and the consequences of it. I suspect she might have felt relieved to see the back of him!
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Ilona - her g.grandmother didn't see the back of this man, because she died before he was transported.
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Ilona - her g.grandmother didn't see the back of this man, because she died before he was transported.
Poor thing, I hadn't caught on to that.
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I realise this is an old thread but I'm so annoyed at Anne Reid that I had to say something.
I have just seen this episode and turned it off the minute she got to Tasmania. Her laughing at John Reid's drunken behaviour was insane at best. Never mind he disrupted the village, banging on people's doors in the middle of the night and generally being a pest. All she seemed to do was defend her criminal ancestor and slag off anyone else that came into contact with him, including her own ancestors the Husbands. Wishing a horrible death on people too, just what? She has no understanding of anything back then it seems.
Urgh, worst episode of this I've ever seen, she's far too annoying to continue to watch on this. Crazy woman.
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It was ABso Awful...
shame cos I liked Thelma ... and hated it when she put the plug in and got an electric Shock...
Dont like the series where she is marrying again at some vague age... and the famil...ies .... are crazy.
adding sons and daughters in law and then forgetting they have.. no .... not good.
(he he he )
xin
;D ;D ;D ::) ???
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shame cos I liked Thelma ... and hated it when she put the plug in and got an electric Shock...
She was Val.
Thelma (Barlow) was the actress who played the part of Mavis Riley. :P
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OK
well there you go - no brain cells left.... at all..
I thought she was married to Ken??
OK so who got electrocuted.. never mind .
WDYTYA with Anne Reid, was not enjoyable for me.
xin
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Also turned this off during the original airing but completed it recently. She hadn't a clue! Baffled why no one giving her the info set her straight on anything.