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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: earley-bird on Monday 21 September 15 00:34 BST (UK)
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I cannot seem to find any reference to the 1st 24th battalion of the The Queen's (Royal West Surrey Regiment) for the 1914-1918 period ? Can anyone help please.
I'm trying to find any reference to my Grandfather Private Henry J Whitchurch who on his marriage cert in 1917 gave the following as his address ...Hut 6 27 Winnall Dorms Camp
Winchester
Private Queens 24th London West Surrey Regiment
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He is more likely to be in the 1/24th (County of London) Battalion (The Queen's) London Regiment. The Queens (Royal West Surrey) Regiment was a different regiment.
Ken
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thank you Ken its very confusing as around that time and since various branches amalgamated and later becamer the Territorials I believe.
On his marriage certificate it states 'Private Queens 24th London West Surrey Regiment' ?
Is this an error ? seems strange that he didn't know which regiment and battalion he served in .
On the Queens Royal Surreys site it says
' During the 1914-18 War, all four London Regiments raised 2nd and 3rd line battalions: the 1st Battalions serving on the Western Front and the 2nd Battalions in Palestine and other theatres. In 1916, the units of The London Regiment became part of the corps of their original regiments, though they kept their London Regiment titles.
However, the two Queen’s battalions, the 22nd and the 24th, already bore the additional title of The Queen’s, and they retained this name throughout their existence.'
In the Great War Diaries the 1/24th regiment is the only one with no information ...very frustrating.
I still do not know where to start looking for this chap
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There is a medal card for a Henry James Whitchurch numbers 3415 and 721135 London Regiment. Also Silver War Badge for the same man 721135 of the 24th. London Regt. Enlisted 6 April 1915, discharged 4 Sept 1917.
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What is likely to be his entry on the medal roll has him as 24/Lond.R. (sic) (Ken's post).
The war diary Mar 1915-May 1919 of 1/24th (same battalion) is on Ancestry, under 47th Division incorrectly described in the title as 1/23rd It is the second 1/23rd entry. Probably won't help you further with the man but will show his war.
It is the registrar who makes the entry on the certificate and I find it more likely that it is his interpretation of what is said to him rather than the man himself not knowing the name of his regiment that is the cause of the confusion. I found a recent example where a member of the Royal Marine Labour Corps is recorded on his certificate as "Private Royal Marines" which is strictly speaking incorrect, but may either have been what the man said or what the registrar wrote. In any event, given we had his RMLC record, there was no suggestion that he was something other than RMLC.
maxD
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wow thank you all for your help with this .
I find the whole military history /records subject incredibly frustrating and have now spent over 4x hours trying to trace Mister Henry Whitchurch with little to show for it.
I have just downloaded a medal form from The National Archive which was very disapointing. It had no information that I didn't already have just his name and number and regiment and has nothing to positively identify him as my Grand father .He could be any Whitchurch
MaxD thank you for checking Ancestry for me . Unfortunately I do not have a subscription only FindMyPast and it would be too expensive to just check one record which may or may not be my Whitchurch. I'd appreciate any information you have that might provide any positive id .
JEBBER thank you for the enlist and discharge dates that is the only reference I have . Could you tell me where I can download or purchase that record please . The medal card I purchased from Nat Archive has nothing on it unfortunately
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I found it on Findmypast, unfortunately there is nothing to download, it is only a transcription. The only extra information is the following.
Cause of discharge. Paragraph 392 xvi King's Regulation sick.
Badge number 238022.
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thanks for the source jebber I have now found that .
Looks like he was discharged 3 months after his marriage. ? perhaps he had been injured and wasn't expected to survive .
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Generally, the only records that contain information linking a soldier to his family (which is what you are after), are his Service Record and/or his Pension Record (there are others for soldiers who fell). It is clear that his are among the 60% of all such records burnt during WW2. If the marriage certificate is definitely, from family links etc, your grandfather, and he is Henry James Whitchurch, then I would certainly say that the Henry James Whitchurch for whom you have a Medal Card, a Medal Roll entry, a Silver War badge and a Regiment that tallies with his cert is the same person. The medal roll for the 1/24th Bn has no other Henry J Whitchurch.
As is usual, the war diary does not mention him by name. Winnall Down (not Dorms) camp was a rest camp and also had a military hospital. I would propose a likely scenario is that he was injured in some way in 1916 (his medal roll entry has the end of his overseas service as 8 Nov 1916), invalided back to England, hospitalised at Winnal Down, married while there but was later assessed as unfit for further service and, as you have discovered, invalided out.
Frustrating as it is, one has to accept that 100% proof is not always possible.
maxD
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'The war diary Mar 1915-May 1919 of 1/24th (same battalion) is on Ancestry, under 47th Division incorrectly described in the title as 1/23rd It is the second 1/23rd entry. '
The record that I looked at had both the 1/23rd and the 1/24th together . Apparently they joined and formed the 6th London brigade of the 2nd London Division and went to St Albans together prior to mobilising for war and embarking for France arriving at Harve on the 4th August 1914
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Your are welcome. The war diary is available for download at the National Archives, £3.30
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7354571
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Your are welcome. The war diary is available for download at the National Archives, £3.30
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7354571
thank you