RootsChat.Com
General => Technical Help => Family History Programs, Tree Organisation, Presentation => Topic started by: Beeonthebay on Monday 21 September 15 20:10 BST (UK)
-
Hello, I had a LONG lay off from doing my family tree and I believe I had Family Tree Maker version 4 or something like that number from the dark ages.
So after a bit of research I decided to buy Family Historian a few months ago, 1) because it got very good reviews and 2) because it was British and not American.
However despite joining the FHUG and trying so hard to read up on it I just can't get my head around the whole programme. Is there a Family Historian book for Dummies? ::) I did ask questions but felt so dumb when I didn't even understand the answers. :-[ I can't even figure out how to type in a marriage or baptism without the Ancestral Sources add on thing which I find even harder to use!!!
I uploaded my Gedcom saved file to FH and it gives many me so many errors, say for instance the census entries, instead of saying "Fred Bloggs appears in the 1891 census" it says "Fred Bloggs experienced census in the 1891 census"
When you look at the narrative for an individual it gives too much information in separate sentences so much so it over whelms you like this, copied and pasted from FH:
John PRITCHARD, son of UNKNOWN FATHER (c. 1840- ) and Martha PRITCHARD (1839- ), was born circa 1861 in
Liverpool, LAN. He appeared in the census on 2 April 1871 in Liverpool aged 10.1 On 2 April 1871 he was a Scholar in
Liverpool.1 He appeared in the census on 3 April 1881 in Liverpool aged 22.2 On 3 April 1881 he was a Dock Labourer in
Liverpool.2 He married Mary Ellen BROWN on 25 December 1883 in Liverpool, LAN, England. On 6 November 1885 he
lived in Liverpool.3 On 6 November 1885 he was a Labourer in Liverpool.3 On 29 November 1885 he lived in Liverpool.4
On 29 November 1885 he was a Labourer in Liverpool.4 He appeared in the census on 5 April 1891 in Liverpool aged 30.5
On 5 April 1891 he was a Labourer General in Liverpool.5 He appeared in the census on 5 April 1891 aged 29.6 On 5 April
1891 he was a Dock Labourer.6 He experienced Census 1891 in 1891 in 36 Hibbert Street, Everton, LAN; Census: Labourer
General, M, 30. He experienced Census 1901 in 1901 in 38 Hibbert Street, Everton, LAN; Census: Bonder's Warehouseman,
M, 38. In 1922 he was in Liverpool, LAN; Occupation: Wine and Spirit Warehouse-keeper. He died on 11 April 1922 in 67
Grey Rock St, Liverpool, LAN.
I have thought of starting again from scratch...eeekkkk :o or re-exporting the Gedcom from FH to my desktop and importing it to another programme but all the free ones seem to be public and (long story) I'd like to keep it private just for my own use.
Can anybody offer me any advise please? I am not a computer newbie but I fear family history/tree programmes have moved above and beyond my experience. I feel overwhelmed by it all and have my newly found stuff on hold as I feel I am sinking into a quagmire of not knowing what the hell I am doing these days!!!! I certainly don't remember it as being so hard when I used to whiz off my stuff into FTM or PAF back in the day. ;D
-
Hello Beeonthebay
I'm so sorry that I can't help but I really wanted to offer sympathy vibes because I've tried several new-style programs, all of which interpret gedcoms differently and have given up for the moment. I am STILL using PAF :o because I can't find anything that suits me better. Sad, isn't it?
I am in the process of writing my own program but it's a long job...
I know sympathy doesn't really help but I thought you might like to know you're not alone.
I'm sure some kindly RCer will be able to point you in a helpful direction...
Angela
-
They can be a little "technical" on FHUG if you're unlucky.
The census entries are not actually caused by Family Historian, but are a result of the format that Family Tree Maker had them in. A distant relative of mine has had a similar problem. The issue being that FTM wasn't using standard formating for gedcom, so when it exports to gedcom and gets imported into other programs you get the issues. That's why you were getting a lot of errors reported when you imported the gedcom. I had the same issues even with basic facts such as birth/baptism, marriage, death/burial. I did find a way to sort out the census issue, with a bit of help from FHUG, a few months back for my relative but I'll have to have a dig about and see how I did it. All is not lost.
I had a major argument with a couple of the "experts" on FHUG (note they are volunteers and have nothing to do with the software company) about the dual sentences for census (one for residence and one for occupation) as I said I didn't want separate sentences for these. I now avoid adding occupation details in the occupation boxes in facts because of the way Family Historian treats these. I have managed to get round it by customising the event/fact sentences templates but as I hadn't added Census facts into my trees until recently, its been easier for me as I'm only now adding census and other events/facts. I've always had the information saved, just never bothered to expand the "tree" for narrative report purposes.
You definitely don't need Ancestral Sources for adding baptisms, marriages, etc, its much simpler not to. I only use AS for census and I only add part of the information using it anyway because of the issue with it creating secondary facts for occupations.
If you see the screen dump I've attached to this posting, I tend to add baptisms/marriage/burial details on the right hand side. I think by default it probably doesn't show all of these (its a while since I installed the software) but they can be added by clicking the wheel cog above the individuals name on the right hand side and selecting "customise data entry" and then adding the items you require. If you click the Facts tab on the right hand side, you can also add facts details, such as baptisms, marriages, etc, there by clicking "add fact".
You may have to do a bit of editing to resolve some of the issues, but you definitely don't need to start again. FH is great with some customisation but it can be a bit mind boggling to start with. I've been using it for 2.5 years now and have only recently been able to work out how to customise the narrative reports to read the way I want and it took a bit of work. But its enabled me to work out the best ways to create customised facts too.
PS. There isn't a Family Historian for Dummies book, only a book produced by the company which is for v5. http://www.fhug.org.uk/programs/getting_the_most_from_family_historian_5.pdf
-
I hope that helps for Beeonthebay, but I certainly appreciate your explanation, smudwhisk. I shall go and have another look at my copy of FH armed with what you've said.... Thanks!
-
Have you tried this?
http://www.family-historian.co.uk/tour/thetourvideo
The User guide for Version 5 is available at
http://www.fhug.org.uk/programs/getting_the_most_from_family_historian_5.pdf
While there are obviously changes in V6, hopefully it will help
For importing from another program, chappie on the User Group puts a lot of work into getting the best possible import into Family Historian from other programs so it really would benefit reading the relevant section here
http://www.fhug.org.uk/wiki/doku.php?id=how_to:index
at the bottom of the page
I agree the import instructions look complicated which is not what you want when starting new software but I think that's the nature of the beast when you're trying to migrate various proprietary formats.
Yes, the Narrative report can get very repetitive but the various residence and 0occupation facts can be grouped together with a date range so you'd just have e.g.
From 1839 to 1901 he lived in Liverpool
From 1856 to 1870 he was a Dock Labourer
And, as opposed to smudwhisk, I like Ancestral Sources :)
-
Hi
Before you do ANYTHING else . . . . .
. . .. . take multiple copies of the gedcom file(s) AND any other file you may have.
Keep them (complete "sets") on separate "drives".
Gedcom files are, essentially, just text files where each piece of data has a keyword.
So, rename (a copy of) a gedcom file to "same".txt then view it using Wordpad/notepad/word/etc.
This will placate you and ensure you breathe (a little bit ) easier.
Then come back and re-read what has been said here ( and elsewhere )
Ray
-
For importing from another program, chappie on the User Group puts a lot of work into getting the best possible import into Family Historian from other programs so it really would benefit reading the relevant section here
http://www.fhug.org.uk/wiki/doku.php?id=how_to:index
at the bottom of the page
I agree the import instructions look complicated which is not what you want when starting new software but I think that's the nature of the beast when you're trying to migrate various proprietary formats.
Yes, the Narrative report can get very repetitive but the various residence and 0occupation facts can be grouped together with a date range so you'd just have e.g.
From 1839 to 1901 he lived in Liverpool
From 1856 to 1870 he was a Dock Labourer
And, as opposed to smudwhisk, I like Ancestral Sources :)
I think Beeonthebay has already had experience of dealing with the person you refer to. :-\ I know who you mean and often don't agree with his method of doing things. That said, he has helped me a few times for which I am grateful.
As for Ancestral Sources, didn't say I didn't like it, just find it a bit too rigid in its way of doing things at times. I use it to add Census facts for multiple individuals in the same family, but do not include the occupation because of the way it creates a separate occupation. Instead, I then expand the note section for each individuals census fact to say who they were with and what their occuaption was, and anything else from the census I wish to include. I also tend to use the Census (family) fact for couples, often amending the entries once I've added through Ancestral Sources, because otherwise you get rather a lot of repetition. Now using Census (family) facts is apparently a bit of a "no no" because it isn't gedcom complaint, although it is a standard Family Historian fact, but as I'm not planning on moving my data to any other software at any time soon, I prefer to have better worded reports than gedcom-complaint data. ;D
Attached is an example of one of a census fact with a customised note to include occupation. The full sentence reads "On 30 March 1851, the night of the census, Mary was resident at 3 Manchester Place, Chelsea, with her children Catherine, Emma, Martha and John. Her profession is described as a laundress". The reason the census reads this way is because I've customised the census template as "{date}, the night of the Census, {individual} was resident at {_place}, {note}". For that matter, I've customised a lot of Family Historian sentence templates to read how I want them to read and try and remove some of the repetition that Bee refers to.
It really is down to how you wish to use the software and how you want to present it. There is no right and wrong, even though I may disagree with how the "majority" think things should be done. I don't like the way they display in Narrative Reports, but, as is the beauty of Family Historian, you can customs Fact sentence templates to display how you want and don't always have to use the default.
As Ray says, definitely worth keeping some backups of your gedcom, although the advice I've given on where to add baptisms, etc, isn't going to affect the gedcom, it is just one way of doing it. ;)
-
I uploaded my Gedcom saved file to FH and it gives many me so many errors, say for instance the census entries, instead of saying "Fred Bloggs appears in the 1891 census" it says "Fred Bloggs experienced census in the 1891 census"
The reason it will say "experienced" is because the Fact/Event isn't a standard gedcom fact. My distant relative had the same issue. She had created a lot of custom Facts in FTM2006 named Fact1, Fact2, etc. Often these were for things like witnessing marriages, death registration details, etc, and unfortunately these do not export to gedcoms correctly, hence the issue when imported into Family Historian. If you look at the Facts tab on the right hand side of any individual's record view, it will show you what type of Fact FH things the details are for. There is a plugin available to run in FH which allows you to change a custom fact into a standard one, which would remove the "experience" issue in the narrative.
As for the separate sentences for residence and occupation for Census, I'm assuming these have been added via Ancestral Sources? As I posted earlier, unfortunately it will create two separate facts for these as there is no occupation field on any of the Facts apart from a separate Occupation Residence fact. This is why I have been manually adding the occupation details to the note section of Census facts so that they read better in Narrative Reports. As you mention you were using FTM4 I'm assuming you had added these via Ancestral Sources because, as far as I'm aware, any version of FTM earlier than 2008 didn't allow occupations to be added to Census facts. I used to use FTM2006 and much of my data was exported to gedcom and imported in Family Historian, apart from some which was updated in FTM2012. The earlier the version of FTM used, as long as no custom Facts were created, the less issues migrating over to another program, although you will probably still get errors on imports but that is often down to how FTM and FH treat individual's Notes (that's another issue but fixable :-\).
-
B, you are not alone. I purchased FH for the exact same reasons as you did.
I have had it for years and I still have no clue how to use it.
Smudwhisk's explanations are very helpful but I still find it hard to get my head around it.
I more or less gave up on trying to work my way around FH. It's kind of embarrassing if a new distant ancestor turns up (which they do sometimes) and I want to send them a copy of the information I have on a particular branch of the family, I generally end up typing it up rather than extracting the information from FH.
I did go through a stage of watching tutorials, reading the instructions and just ended up getting myself in a mess.
I have a low tolerance for anything complicated and tend to give up, so I'm sure this says more about me than the programme. I'm sure the newer versions would get me in even more of a muddle. ;D
-
Thank you all so much, TBH I was a bit embarrassed to come back here after my vent last night made through tears of sheer frustration. :'(
However I got over myself and I am soooo relieved I'm not the only one who's had difficulties with FH.
I have been onto Family Search (or the IGI) as I still call it and Angela you better keep hold of your copy of PAF as it's no longer being released. :o They recommend 3 free programmes that work with their data, so I think I'm going to get one of those and upgrade later as I'm sure it will be just basics only with the freebie. In fact I might get all 3 and have a play around and see which one I like best. They are Ancestral Quest, Legacy Family Tree and RootsMagic. Funny enough it was a tossup between FH and RootsMagic when I was deciding, looks like I backed the wrong horse for me.......
Thanks once again everybody I feel much less foolish today. :)
https://familysearch.org/PAF/
-
Angela, and for that matter anyone else, if my postings have shed light on Family Historian for you then that's great. ;D It can be a bit mind boggling to use but it is a very good program and more gedcom compliant and customisable than any of the others.
Unfortunately it would seem that Bee had already made her mind up last night that she didn't want to use FH and in spite of asking for help on several things, has decided not to persue it any further (that's the impression I got from Bee's last post). :-\ Bee, that's a shame, because it is a very good program. However, I note that some of my posts are actually repeating advice that you were given on FHUG in July so I'm a little confused as to why you posted them on here as you appear to have already fixed the problem (namely custom facts not importing correctly because they aren't gedcom compliant). I appreciate that on FHUG you stated you had a "steep learning curve" but, rather than getting more and more frustrated, perhaps it would have been better if you had returned to FHUG since the beginning of August and asked a few more questions. I've posted "silly" questions on there since starting to use the software and have found helpful answers. I've also found that others have posted the same questions as I and the replies they received saved me reposting again.
One word of caution, you may find that if you import your original gedcom, rather than the "fixed" one from Family Historian, into another program, you may find you have the same problem with custom facts because they aren't gedcom compliant.
In the end, its very much down to how you want to use the software to record your family history and how much you want to spend learning a new program. The more customisable the program, such as Family Historian, the steeper the learning curve but in the end I do feel you get a better solution rather than using default reports. That said, I have used Roots Magic, and its predecessor Family Origins, for many years simply for their report functionality because they had always been better than what was available in Family Tree Maker. However, having got my head around how to customise the Narrative Reports in Family Historian in the last few months, and not needing to "share" a gedcom with any other program, going forward I shall just be using Family Historian. ;D
-
Can I just say please I made that last post 1.36pm today.............before I read any further.
*updated to add*
I didn't realise I was so obviously findable on the Internet ::) whatever happened to privacy?
-
I should also add that when I worked in a big office with lots of colleagues who were up to speed and IT guys and whatever it wasn't this difficult as somebody always had an answer to my questions.
Nowadays I am a lone worker and it's really hard to keep up with technology sitting in an office on your own.
Anyway I have downloaded Ancestral Quest and I don't like it lol so that is off the list.
I'm actually wondering now if I shouldn't re-do the whole thing and stick with FH as of course I've paid good money for it. I haven't done any serious research for quite a number of years just the odd month here or there on FindMyPast or Ancestry to help a friend out or whatever.
Maybe that would be a good thing for me to do, because I'm sure I have forgotten many things and they say you should re-visit old censuses etc. with fresh eyes.........
-
Can I just say please I made that last post 1.36pm today.............before I read any further.
*updated to add*
I didn't realise I was so obviously findable on the Internet ::) whatever happened to privacy?
Bee, you said yourself you had posted on FHUG so I had a look through the posts and found what looked likely to be yours based on the contents of your original posting on this thread. This I did only after seeing your post from earlier this afternnon when you basically gave the indication you weren't interested in resolving the issues you were having and just moving to another program. The reason I looked was I wondered why you bothered to word your original post on this thread the way you did in these circumstances.
For privacy reasons I did not post a link to the thread. As to the comment about you not having been back to FHUG since the beginning of August, it was simply to highlight the fact that you appeared to have given up then which made me wonder why you had worded your original posting as you did. From memory, the last visit to the FHUG site is only viewable anyway if you have a login account to the forum and I simply said beginning of August, nothing more specific. Lets face it, both FHUG and RC are searchable via google so nothing posted on these forums is exactly "public". Perhaps you shouldn't have mentioned you'd already used FHUG.
Sorry, but I still wonder why you asked for specific advice on the software on RC when you obviously had already decided not to use it any further based on your post from earlier this afternoon. And yes I did spend quite a bit of time replying to your posts yet you didn't bother to respond to any of them so I am a little bit annoyed. At least they may help others.
-
I'm actually wondering now if I shouldn't re-do the whole thing and stick with FH as of course I've paid good money for it. I haven't done any serious research for quite a number of years just the odd month here or there on FindMyPast or Ancestry to help a friend out or whatever.
Maybe that would be a good thing for me to do, because I'm sure I have forgotten many things and they say you should re-visit old censuses etc. with fresh eyes.........
There isn't really any need to re-do anything, just a bit of editing is needed. And the offer stands, if you'd like some help with anything to do with the software, I'm happy to help or there is of course always FHUG. If you don't want to post specific questions on RC, send me a PM and I'll see what I can do. But be warned, I don't necessarily follow the "proper" way of doing things a la FHUG. ;)
-
I'm sorry if I annoyed you I *did* read your posts but I felt overwhelmed ::) and as you yourself said it's not an easy programme to learn.
And I was being :P tongue in cheek about the privacy issue.
I already have that book you posted but thank you anyway, I appreciate your time and also everybody else who has answered my post.
I find, like Ruskie, that I too have a low tolerance for anything that is too complicated and tend to throw in the towel rather than persevere. I am not a "fix it" kind of person. Even when you said you had created your own reports with [ xxx ] and so on I just had a "I can't do it" attitude so perhaps like Ruskie said that says more about me too.
I really would like to see a FH book for Dummies laid out in simple terms, because then I could understand things though I'm not computer illiterate, sometimes these fancy pancy programmes give you TOO MUCH rather than keeping it simple for beginners.
Sorry if I have offended, I will ask admin to delete my post.
-
I really would like to see a FH book for Dummies laid out in simple terms, because then I could understand things though I'm not computer illiterate, sometimes these fancy pancy programmes give you TOO MUCH rather than keeping it simple for beginners.
Sorry if I have offended, I will ask admin to delete my post.
You haven't offended, it is just somewhat frustrating when you post a detailed response and it appears to be ignored.
I can't somehow see a Family Historian for Dummies book getting written unfortunately as the market wouldn't be sufficient to justify it.
As I said, though, if you have a basic question on how to do something, just ask. Its easy enough to post screen dumps highlighting things. Something I often feel they could do with doing on FHUG rather than directing you to read the Knowledge Base.
And I was being :P tongue in cheek about the privacy issue.
OK I may have over reacted a little there but I did explain why I posted that.
-
I'm actually wondering now if I shouldn't re-do the whole thing and stick with FH as of course I've paid good money for it. I haven't done any serious research for quite a number of years just the odd month here or there on FindMyPast or Ancestry to help a friend out or whatever.
Maybe that would be a good thing for me to do, because I'm sure I have forgotten many things and they say you should re-visit old censuses etc. with fresh eyes.........
There isn't really any need to re-do anything, just a bit of editing is needed. And the offer stands, if you'd like some help with anything to do with the software, I'm happy to help or there is of course always FHUG. If you don't want to post specific questions on RC, send me a PM and I'll see what I can do. But be warned, I don't necessarily follow the "proper" way of doing things a la FHUG. ;)
Thank you for your kind offer it is much appreciated. How do you think I should best start to go about fixing my errors? Delete all censuses with to start with so they say something rather than "experienced"?
-
Bee, as I'm assuming you now have a licenced copy of FH6 rather than using the trial, did you try using the "Change Any Fact" plugin that was suggested on FHUG to resolve the Census sentence issues? It will change any non-standard facts to standard ones, so that you don't get "experienced" in the wording of sentences in Narrative Reports.
How many individuals do you have in your file? I'm just thinking if its a large number, it seems a lot of work to just remove and then re-add them, although that is one path to follow.
In the case of the Census facts that were imported from FTM, if you look at the "Facts" tab on the right of an individuals record page, do they show a date in the date column or is the year showing in the Fact name column instead?
If you're not sure what I mean, if you take a look at my first post and the second attachment on it, you'll see a list of dates with Fact names against them. That is the view I'm referring to just in case I'm causing any confusion. Its the second tab on the right hand side of any Individuals record in Family Historian. I see that my first attachment on that first post was too large to show completely on RC but if you click the file name and open the attachment, you should see what I mean if your view is different.
The "Change any Fact" plugin won't work if the date isn't showing in the date column but there is another plugin that will change the name of Census facts which are named, eg. 1841 Census, to just Census and add the full date to the date column for these facts.
Hope I've worded this OK.
On the subject of Census facts entered via Ancestral Sources, which I'm assuming was used for the John Pritchard example in your first post, you will see several Facts with the same date as the census, one being for occupation. If you don't want these, you can just click on them and click the red "x" to delete them. You could add the occupation details to the note section on the main Census fact (the one that shows where they were resident). If you look at the attachment on my second post on this thread, it shows a Census Fact highlighted with details in the note section at the bottom. The note section would be a good place to add any details such as occupation if you don't want a separate Occupation Resident fact.
If you include the occupation details on a Census entry within Ancestral Sources, it will create a separate Occupation Residence fact for the date of the census. I have queried why this happens but was told it was the only way it could be done.
That is why I now do not include occupation details when using Ancestral Sources but when the details have been added by Ancestral Sources to Family Historian, I go back and add the details manually to the note section for the relevant Census fact.
I hope this makes sense, let me know if it doesn't and I'll try and word it differently. I know what I mean even if nobody else can understand what I write. ;D
-
Hi
?Is it too simplistic to say . . . . .
Export to a gedcom from your tree
Edit it using Notepad/Wordpad etc (examples not suggestions) ( change the file suffix to .txt if easier)
Work out the word(s)/phrase(s) you wish to change/remove
Carry out global edits if necessary.
Save/exit
Rename file/suffix to whatever you now need (eg NewTree_20150924.ged)
Import said ged into new tree.
Check the result.
Save tree
Back it up.
Ray
Post sections of "before and after" on here, some of us WILL be interested. :-)
-
Yea that is another way it could be approached but it does really depend on how many individuals are in the file and how confident Bee is feeling to approach it. The reason why plugins have been written by volunteers on FHUG is to simplify such things and automate the process.
-
I REALLY do appreciate all your help. I have less than 300 names on my tree when I think it should be nearer 500, (not counting those that are in census downloads I haven't even bothered to type up yet, probably quite a lot more). I did have a more updated tree on Ancestry at one time, but (long story) I deleted it and now have only a basic few names online due to snatch and grabs of my data and personal photographs.
I *think* when I uploaded this gedcom file to FH it wasn't the latest one and I have no idea what happened to it, I've moved countries 3 times in the past 10 years, last week I even bought a floppy disc reader (!!!) to see what happened to all my "missing" names and if I could find out if they were on the floppy discs. Even though I'm not a "name and numbers gatherer" I can see big gaps from what I remember having.
I have a lot of saved files ending in .sqz which must be some other family tree programme I had at one time??
In my case, I think as painful as it's going to be, I'm going to start afresh. Smudwhisk, I'm going to print out the helpful posts you have given me and will take on board your information about the occupation and not putting it into AS when doing censuses.
I did find on one of the discs a really nice layout, maybe from the LDS programme I downloaded back in the year dot or perhaps the .sqz prog, but honestly this is so much nicer and clearer, I don't understand why I can't get something similar from a programme like FH.... or maybe you can and I'm just looking in the wrong place??
12. John Ellson3 Povall (John2, John1) was born in Bunbury, CHS, England 24 January 1843. John was born at 9 ????, Bunbury, his father John was a Tailor and his mother was the birth informant.
He married Agnes Kelly in Liverpool, LAN, England, 27 May 1867. John & Agnes were married in the Seamen's Church in Rathbone Street, Liverpool.
The witnesses to their marriage were:
William Quayle
Catherine Caine
At the time of their marriage Agnes lived at 3 Pine Grove, West Derby her father John worked for H.M. Customs and she was a Waitress.
John lived at 1 Knowles Street, Toxteth Park his father is John Povall a Tailor, John the son is also a Tailor.
They both signed the register and were married by licence in this church which was Primitive Methodist.
Agnes was born in Isle of Man about 1843. She was the daughter of John Kelly.
John Ellson Povall and Agnes Kelly had the following children:
15 i. John H4 Povall was born in Liverpool, LAN, England about 1868.
16 ii. Ann J Povall was born in Liverpool, LAN, England about 1870.
17 iii. Emily Povall was born in Liverpool, LAN, England about 1872.
+ 18 iv. Thomas Ellson Povall was born 4 May 1874.
19 v. Agnes M Povall was born in Liverpool, LAN, England about 1876.
20 vi. George H Povall was born in Liverpool, LAN, England about 1878.
21 vii. Robert D Povall was born in Liverpool, LAN, England about 1880.
18. Thomas Ellson4 Povall (John Ellson3, John2, John1) was born in Liverpool, LAN, England 4 May 1874. Thomas was born at 3 Pine Grove, Crown Street. His father's occupation was Tailor and the birth informant was his mother. Thomas died about 1925 in Liverpool, LAN, England.
He married Martha Botworth in Liverpool, LAN, England, 30 May 1898. Thomas & Martha were married at St Saviour's Church in the Parish of Liverpool. The witnesses to the marriage were:
James Herbert Kennedy Annie Povall John Ellson Povall Sarah Beatson
At the time of their marriage Martha lived at 20 Almond Street and her father William's occupation was Yardsman. Thomas lived at 253 Crown Street and his father John was a Tailor. Thomas was a Plasterer.
Both parties signed their names. The marriage was by Banns.
Martha was born in Liverpool, LAN, England about 1875. She was the daughter of William Botworth and Martha Grimes.
Thomas Ellson Povall and Martha Botworth had the following child:
+ 22 i. Thomas Ellson5 Povall was born 5 April 1899.
-
One possibility is that your sqz files were back ups created by the Genealogy Program "The Master Genealogist" (TMG) - this program ceased production relatively recently although Family Historian has been adapting to replace it and to import its files.
-
Bee, depending on how old the "report" is, it could be from perhaps the software Family Origins? The software was sold to a competitor, possibly as much as 10years ago and then discontinued. Although Roots Magic was then developed by some of the same people. The style of the report is very much like Family Origins and Roots Magic but I've not liked Roots Magic's main program so never used it for anything else other than the reports. As I recently managed to tweak Family Historians reports to look similar (but not quite the same), I've stopped using RM now. Having never used TMG, can't comment on it but Falkyrn is correct that Family Historian have been making a pitch for TMG users now its been discontinued.
-
TBH I have no idea which programme I was using that printed out these reports as it was so long ago. I do think they are very clear and concise though with none of the repetiveness of FH.
Thank you for all of your help. I hope Angela and Ruskie got something out of my posts of frustration too. :D
-
Well I certainly know who to call on if I need any help. ;)
-
TBH I have no idea which programme I was using that printed out these reports as it was so long ago. I do think they are very clear and concise though with none of the repetiveness of FH.
Any repetiveness in FH Narrative Reports is going to be down to multiple Facts/Events for the same date. Unfortunately it does seem to mostly happen when data has been entered via Ancestral Sources.
Below is an example of one generation from a Narrative Report in my tree, as you can see it doesn't include census info, but there is no repetition in it:
Second Generation
~~~~~~~~
2. Silva BRIGGS, daughter of George BRIGGS and Sylva WESTWOOD, was born on 21 February 1850. She was baptised on 10 March 1850 at Bethnal Green St Matthew, Middlesex. She died in 1852 in Whitechapel Registration District (probably).
June qtr 1852 death registered as Sylvia Briggs. There is also the birth of a Sylvia Briggs in June qtr 1852 in Whitechapel Reg District and a death in 1860 in Bethnal Green Registration District.
3. George Thomas BRIGGS, son of George BRIGGS and Sylva WESTWOOD, was born on 15 September 1853 in Mile End, Middlesex. He was baptised on 9 October 1853 at Bethnal Green St Matthew. He married Rebecca Elizabeth GRANT on 6 November 1875 at Stepney St Dunstan & All Saints, Middlesex. He died in 1918 in Poplar Registration District.
Rebecca Elizabeth GRANT was born in 1854 in Marylebone, Middlesex. She died in 1913 in Poplar Registration District.
Death registered as just Rebecca Briggs, confirmed by grandson's ancestry tree.
Rebecca Elizabeth GRANT and George Thomas BRIGGS had the following children:
+6 George BRIGGS (1876-1939)
+7 Silvia Harriett BRIGGS (1878-1963)
+8 Rebecca Elizabeth BRIGGS (1879-aft1911)
+9 Alfred William BRIGGS (1881-aft1901)
+10 Beatrice Annie BRIGGS (1883-1922)
+11 Joseph Thomas BRIGGS (1884-aft1911)
+12 Grace Miriam BRIGGS (1888-1917)
+13 Andrew James BRIGGS (1890-1936)
+14 Esther May BRIGGS (1892-1915)
+15 Reuben BRIGGS (1894-1895)
+16 Stanley Reuben BRIGGS (1895-1960)
17 Arthur Horace BRIGGS (1897-1960). Arthur was born on 30 August 1897 in Bromley St Leonard, London. He was baptised on 20 September 1897 at Mile End Old Town St Luke, London. He died in 1960 in London City Registration District (probably).
4. Alfred [Thomas] BRIGGS, son of George BRIGGS and Sylva WESTWOOD, was born in 1861 in Bethnal Green, Middlesex. He married Emma Mary Ann DUCE on 31 May 1886 at Stepney St Dunstan & All Saints. He died after 1911.
Birth registered as just Alfred Briggs, but married as Alfred Thomas Briggs.
Emma Mary Ann DUCE was born on 31 January 1867. She was baptised on 3 February 1867 at Bethnal Green St Matthias, Middlesex. She died after 1891. She and Alfred [Thomas] BRIGGS had the following children:
+18 Ethel BRIGGS (1887-aft1911)
19 Cunningham Alfred G BRIGGS (1889-1891). Cunningham was born in 1889 in Bethnal Green. He died in 1891 in Hackney Registration District.
The formating is out because I had to save it as a text file to copy into RC.
As you can see, no repetition. There is an option in all the Reports so that where little information is available on someone, say they died young, it doesn't create a separate entry for them but they appear under their parent's section only. This is how they show in other programs.
Yes the sentence templates have been heavily customised on their wording but the Report format hasn't been. As long as a Fact/Event is recognised by FH, most of the standard sentence wording is OK, I just decided to amend them so they read how I wanted. Its not difficult to do and if you amend the templates, it defaults to these for all individuals in every file.
I only have a single Fact/Event for each date. Unfortunately where more than one Fact/Event has been created for each date, you will get repetition but you can usually get around this even using Ancestral Sources by only entering the bare minimum. For most Facts/Events I just enter the data directly into FH, I only use Ancestral Sources for census as it reduces the amount of data I have to enter manually. That is down to personal choice.
-
Example of a Descendant Narrative Report with census info (again the formating is out because I had to save it as a text file to be able to copy):
_______________________________________________________________________________
Maria CLAYTON (bap.1808, bur.1889)
________________________________________________________________________________
1. Maria CLAYTON, daughter of Edward CLAYTON ( -aft1810) and Sarah HAYDON (bap.1773, bur.1833), was baptised on 24 January 1808 at Enfield St Andrew, Middlesex. She married James HYETT on 11 December 1826 at Edmonton All Saints, Middlesex. The ceremony was conducted by Dawson Warren, the vicar. Both James and Maria made their mark. On 6 June 1841, the night of the Census, they were resident at Game's Yard, Enfield, Middlesex with their children Mary, Elizabeth, Richard, Charles, Robert and John. James is described as an Agricultural Labourer. On 30 March 1851, the night of the Census, they were resident at Parsonage Lane, Enfield, Middlesex with their their children Richard, Charles, John, Henry and Susannah. James is described as an agricultural labourer. On 7 April 1861, the night of the Census, she was resident at 7 Loves Row, Enfield, Middlesex, with her son Henry and a lodger. Also resident at the same address are her daughter Mary, son in law John Coleman and grandchildren Charlotte Coleman, George Coleman and Amos Coleman. She is described as a Char Woman. On 2 April 1871, the night of the Census, she was resident at Loves Row, Enfield, Middlesex, with her widowed son in law John Coleman and grandson Amos Coleman. Also lodging in the house is her future husband William Hudson. She married William HUDSON on 22 October 1871 at Enfield St Andrew. The marriage was witnessed by Maria's daughter and her future son in law (daughter Elizabeth's second husband) Susannah HYATT and David JONES. The ceremony was conducted by E W Kempe, curate. Both William and Susannah signed the register, Maria made her mark. On 27 Sept 1878 she was the informant on the death certificate of her half sister Sarah Haydon's partner William HOLLAND where she is described as his sister. On 3 April 1881, the night of the Census, she was resident at 7 Loves Row, with her widowed son in law John Coleman and four other lodgers. Her occupation is described as lodging house keeper and poor relief. She was buried on 7 March 1889 at Enfield St Andrew.
James HYETT, son of Richard HYATT (bap.1775, bur.1832) and Elizabeth HUGHES (bap.1767, d.1842), was born on 8 May 1806. He was baptised on 1 June 1806 at Edmonton All Saints. He was buried on 21 August 1858 at Enfield St Andrew. He and Maria CLAYTON had the following children:
+2 Mary HYATT (bap.1827, d.1861)
3 Eliza HYATT (bap.1829, bur.1833). Eliza was baptised on 28 July 1829 at Enfield St Andrew. She was buried on 28 October 1833 at Enfield St Andrew.
+4 Richard HYATT (bap.1831, d.1905)
+5 Elizabeth Anne HYATT (bap.1834, d.aft1901)
+6 Charles HYATT (bap.1836, d.1895)
7 Robert HYATT (bap.1838, bur.1847). Robert was baptised on 8 April 1838 at Enfield St Andrew. On 6 June 1841, the night of the Census, he was resident at Game's Yard, with his parents and siblings Mary, Elizabeth, Richard, Charles and John. He was buried on 9 January 1847 at Enfield St Andrew.
+8 John HYATT (bap.1840, d.1903)
+9 Henry HYATT (bap.1842, d.1899)
+10 Susannah HYATT (1845-1899)
11 Jane HYATT (bap.1848, bur.1849). Jane was baptised on 30 July 1848 at Enfield St Andrew. She was buried on 24 June 1849 at Enfield St Andrew.
William HUDSON was born in 1813. On 2 April 1871 he was resident at Loves Row for the census lodging with his future wife Maria Hyatt nee Clayton, her widowed son in law John Coleman and grandson Amos Coleman. He is described as an agricultural labourer. He died Q1 1876 in Edmonton Registration District.
No birthplace listed on the 1871 Census when he was lodging with Maria Hyatt nee Clatyon.
~~~~~~~~
Second Generation
~~~~~~~~
2. Mary HYATT, daughter of James HYETT and Maria CLAYTON, was baptised on 20 May 1827 at Enfield St Andrew, Middlesex. On 6 June 1841, the night of the Census, she was resident at Game's Yard, Enfield, Middlesex, with her parents and siblings Elizabeth, Richard, Charles, Robert and John. She married John COLEMAN on 24 May 1846 at Enfield Highway St James, Middlesex. On 7 April 1861, the night of the Census, they were resident at 7 Loves Row, Enfield, Middlesex with their three children. John is described as an agricultural labourer and the family are lodging in the same house as Mary's mother and brother, Maria Hyatt nee Clayton and Henry Hyatt, and another lodger. She died Q4 1861 in Edmonton Registration District.
John COLEMAN was born in 1821 at Enfield, Middlesex. On 2 April 1871, the night of the Census, he was resident at Loves Row, Enfield, Middlesex, with his son Amos Coleman and widowed mother in law Maria Hyatt nee Clayton. He is described as an agricultural labourer. On 3 April 1881, the night of the Census, he was resident at 7 Loves Row, with his mother in law Maria Hudson nee Clayton and four other lodgers. He is described as a farm labourer. He died in 1893 in Edmonton Registration District. He and Mary HYATT had the following children:
+12 Charlotte COLEMAN (bap.1848, d.1890)
+13 George COLEMAN (bap.1849, d.aft1881)
+14 Amos COLEMAN (bap.1852, d.1933)
-
Those reports look great and make sense which is what you want if you need to share it with family as they don't understand our little hobby.
Well done!!!!
-
This discussion has been so encouraging, I have downloaded a trial version of the latest FH and am giving it another go. Thanks very much, folks :)
-
I've been using FH since V3. By any standard, it is a program with a great deal of flexibility. As a result, it can appear daunting to some users. I too have used FHUG forums and crossed swords with some of the more experienced contributors.
If I may make the following suggestions.
Don't try to do too much at the start. Use a tree with only a few people and experiment, taking regular backups. Use the included documentation on the help files and the tutorials. Only change one thing at a time, then you know exactly what the change does. As you become confident in your own abilities, you can start to make changes to your main GEDCOM tree. After all the time I've been using FH I've only recently started to look at the way the sentence templates can be modified to make reports read more easily. Use the FHUG FAQ sections to make sure you understand where templates and options are help so that you can move them if you change the location of your tree. When recording facts, make sure you reference the source as it's so frustrating when you don't. Make sure that titles to sources and image files are meaningful, and have a consistent style. I have lots of newspaper cuttings and 1940 Page 1 does little to tell me which newspaper it refers to :O . Above all, take time to explore the possibilities of the software and don't be discouraged if you don't always get the result you want: there's always more than one way to skin a cat :) Above all, take regular backups so that you can reverse changes if you need to.
My major gripe has always been the lack of a proper text editor that allows the use of rich text. It's been hinted to me that this major shortcoming will be resolved, but no dates have been given.
As far as FHUG is concerned, you could always PM the site moderator Jane Taubman to provide feedback on your experience.
-
Just been pointed to this topic - thanks smudwhisk - and it's really helpful, as I've been having the same issues with formatting reports. Can't wait to get home tonight to try out some of the suggestions.
Now i only need to decide whether to carry on with my new tree (where I've been adding all the details from the certificates, which is causing the multiple sentences in reports) or use the large file imported from Ancestry (which has lots of notes already added but has been going since i started my family history research and could do with being tidied up - and superfluous people being removed ;D). Decisions, decisions ;D
But I'm really pleased with FH6 and glad i went with it after trying out several other options.
Deirdre
-
I also am trying to get my head around FH after many years of using FTM.
It is very frustrating at times I seriously dislike the "sentence"
For instance a marriage of mine the sentence says "They experienced Single on 13 May 1879 in Sleaford Lincolnshire" ???
-
From what I've seen on the User Group, if ever a sentence comes up with 'experienced' it's due to the import of a non-standard fact
If you join up here http://www.fhug.org.uk/forum/
and ask on the Importing and Exporting board then there should be a solution forthcoming
BTW: You'll be asked whether you followed the Import from FTM to Family Historian instructions in the Knowledge Base which is supposed to iron out a lot of problems
-
Ok that makes sense, as I did not use the sources in FTM. But put all my findings, details etc in the notes as I much preferred that.
I will just have to grit my teeth and bang my head against the wall occasionally- me thinks ::)
-
Just to add that if the information in the notes is in a consistent format, there may be ways to automate bulk changes which goes for other repetitive tasks (these are done by the plug-ins you may have seen or read about)
-
I've decided to delete all the BMD info of my direct ancestors added through Ancestral Sources and start again, adding the data to the main tab screen in FH6, adding notes to the various events. This appears to be the best solution (for me), and I'm now getting reports more or less as I'd like them, though they still need tweaking ;D
Following smudwhick's advice though, I will add the census data via AS (but again, adding notes re residence and occupation to the FH screen).
-
I'm another one new to Family Historian, enjoying the 30 day trial. In the past I've been using an old version of FTM making regular GEDCOMs, emailing them to myself and opening them in my Heredis app on my ipad. With no trouble. However now, although I can do the GEDCOM export from FH using the File > Export route, the notes are missing when I open Heredis. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? I made sure nothing was excluded when I did the export.
Is this anything to do with the fact that in FH my notes appear in the bottom of the 2 windows of the notes tab (which I think I can fix using the Clean Up Notes plug in when I purchase the program, putting them into the top box - is that right?).
-
Thanks Rootschat ! This is interesting.
I`m also trying the 30 day trial of FH, just to see what it does. So far, I think it is closer to the previous program I was using. I`ve more or less decided to start inputting all the data from scratch rather than using gedcom, in the hope that I can review everything as I go along.
I was doing a review when I had a problem with the previous program, so I may as well start again.
-
I'm another one new to Family Historian, enjoying the 30 day trial. In the past I've been using an old version of FTM making regular GEDCOMs, emailing them to myself and opening them in my Heredis app on my ipad. With no trouble. However now, although I can do the GEDCOM export from FH using the File > Export route, the notes are missing when I open Heredis. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? I made sure nothing was excluded when I did the export.
Is this anything to do with the fact that in FH my notes appear in the bottom of the 2 windows of the notes tab (which I think I can fix using the Clean Up Notes plug in when I purchase the program, putting them into the top box - is that right?).
I've only just seen your post regarding notes from FH - All notes I've entered on FH appear on the Heredis App but not in an obvious manner. On the main screen of the App for an individual you should have the main box for the individual whch has the usual basic info - tapping on this box brings up another screen which contains further information including (in my case anyway) any notes I have attached to the individual.
-
Hi
The real problem is the Gedcom file specification as implemented by each software vendor.
It is NOT a "be all to all".
Basically for each individual on a tree there are elements of data each with a keyword.
Some software vendors create non-standard gedcom file contents.
Some software vendors take the basic/latest specification (Version 5.5.1 or previous)
and then add their own keywords+data.
Gedcom V5.5.1 (and previous) does not include (for example) media items such as pictures/documents/"separate elements".
Some pieces of software can export a tree file as .csv file type so that you can import that file into "EXCEL" making it easily modifiable
One really interesting piece of software is GEDXLATE (G@@gle it / it's on Rootschat too)
http://www.gedmagic.com/gedxlate.htm (http://www.gedmagic.com/gedxlate.htm)
One thing you should do if you do have Gedcom data problems is to read the Gedcom file specification.
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pmcbride/gedcom/55gctoc.htm (http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/%7Epmcbride/gedcom/55gctoc.htm)
Ray
-
I've only just seen your post regarding notes from FH - All notes I've entered on FH appear on the Heredis App but not in an obvious manner. On the main screen of the App for an individual you should have the main box for the individual whch has the usual basic info - tapping on this box brings up another screen which contains further information including (in my case anyway) any notes I have attached to the individual.
Falkyrn, do you export using the Export Gedcom File plugin (http://www.family-historian.co.uk/pluginstore/plugin-entry?id=522 ) and use the Heradis by BSD Concept option?
I'm not sure what the BSD concept is but I wondered if it may fix the problems BillyF is having.
Billy, the creator of the plugin is a regular contributor on the Family Historian User Group Forum - http://www.fhug.org.uk/forum/ - so it may be worth checking by raising a post on there to see what format the Notes records are transferred via the plugin to Heradis.
-
Falkyrn, do you export using the Export Gedcom File plugin (http://www.family-historian.co.uk/pluginstore/plugin-entry?id=522 ) and use the Heradis by BSD Concept option?
I'm not sure what the BSD concept is but I wondered if it may fix the problems BillyF is having.
Billy, the creator of the plugin is a regular contributor on the Family Historian User Group Forum - http://www.fhug.org.uk/forum/ - so it may be worth checking by raising a post on there to see what format the Notes records are transferred via the plugin to Heradis.
Yes I use the plug in - but I export as standard 5.5 gedcom as I use the gedcom file for other Apps too, strip out multimedia and most (if not all) of the other settings are at default values
PS BSD Concept are the company who publish Heredis.
-
Oooer ! A lot of this goes way over my head !!
All I want is a program that lets me see my tree (s ) at a glance, allows me to make reports, charts and enter or view my citations. I had downloaded another program, but it asked for a subscription to view the citations - it`s not happening. I`ve been years doing this, already spending money on certs, copies, travel etc. ,but thankfully I have hard copies of most.
-
Oooer ! A lot of this goes way over my head !!
All I want is a program that lets me see my tree (s ) at a glance, allows me to make reports, charts and enter or view my citations. I had downloaded another program, but it asked for a subscription to view the citations - it`s not happening. I`ve been years doing this, already spending money on certs, copies, travel etc. ,but thankfully I have hard copies of most.
:)
Family Historian (and most of the rest) will do all of that for you although FH is capable of a lot more - certainly a lot more than I use, it's one of those programs which can be as simple as you like but has the power and flexibility to do a lot more.