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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Clare => Topic started by: Foad Family Kent on Tuesday 22 September 15 09:24 BST (UK)
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I cannot work out of these are the same family.
Edmund/Edward married Bridget Cleary in 1876.
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1911
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Hello,
The second family you have in 1911 are here, I think, in 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Clare/Cloonanaha/Derryharriv/1073814/
Regards
Heywood
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I would hazard a guess that they are not the same. Check out the ages of the Head of Houselhhold in both
In the one Edmund 69
Briget 67
other one Edmund 43
Briget 33
Given that the census is 10 years apart there should not be such a big discrepancy in the ages of the head of household and his wife from one to the other.
Occupation is not the same either.
I have often found in my own research families with the same names and surnames having children that almost match the one I am researching, gets very confusing ??? :-\
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Thank you. It just wouldn't settle in my brain. I think have spectacularly messed up.
I have been looking for a Patrick TUTTLE c.1896 who married Mai/Mary Keating c.1921 in Ennistymon area in Clare. I am new to Irish research and finding it very hard.
Date of birth for Patrick goes by burial
TUTTLE, Patrick aged 75 Derryharriv 27 Mar 1954
h/Mary KEATING
Children
Patrick
Ned (Edmund)
Bridget
Mary Theresa (our line)
So if the first 1901 Census is correct with son Patrick Joseph c.1895 I need to find that family on the 1911
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Not to worry you aren't the first and certainly won't be the last to get confused I have more than once followed a lead that turned out to be completely wrong ;D
There are lots of great folk here who will help out
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This on Family Search.org
Patrick Tuttle
United Kingdom, World War I Service Records
Name Patrick Tuttle
Event Type Military Service
Event Year 1915
Residence Place , Clare, Ireland
Age 19
Military Company/Regiment London Regiment
Military Regiment 4477
Military Battalion 4/2nd Battalion
Birth Year (Estimated) 1896
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Fantastic, thank you. I am lucky enough to have his army papers :)
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This also on familysearch.org may be yours
Patrick Tuttle
Ireland Civil Registration Indexes
Name Patrick Tuttle
Event Type Birth
Event Date Apr - Jun 1896
Event Place Ennistimon, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Apr - Jun 1896
Registration District Ennistimon
Volume Number 4
Page Number 189
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I am hoping that is him - on the 1901 Census he is recorded as Patrick Thomas but not in his army papers :)
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Hello,
There is a published tree which has Patrick J marrying in USA. :-\
Does his Army record give any further details?
His marriage certificate would give his father's name.
Regards
Heywood
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Just had a quick look at his service record, it does look as though you have the right 1901 family. His address is given as Lysaghts Place and his sister, Mary of the same.
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Just wish I could confirm with 1911 Census but no luck.
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Does it say when he married in the USA as my Patrick was 100% the one in the army papers dated 1919.
Hello,
There is a published tree which has Patrick J marrying in USA. :-\
Does his Army record give any further details?
His marriage certificate would give his father's name.
Regards
Heywood
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It seems Patrick only served 149 days, leaving the Army in 1915 actually.
Don't think I shall ever get to the bottom of this :)
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Was reason given for leaving, my ggrandfather had served his "time" so to speak lol
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I am hoping that is him - on the 1901 Census he is recorded as Patrick Thomas but not in his army papers :)
Hope I'm not muddying the waters more!! But there is also a birth reg in the index for a Patrick Tuttle in Ennistymon in 1895 so it might be worthwhile getting both certs,
Name PATRICK TUTTLE
Date of Birth 1896
Group Registration ID 9302416
SR District/Reg Area Ennistymon
Sex N/R
Mother's Birth Surname N/R
Name PATRICK TUTTLE
Date of Birth 1895
Group Registration ID 9866055
SR District/Reg Area Ennistymon
Sex N/R
Mother's Birth Surname N/R
annclare
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His army papers state he was discharged as judged not to become an efficient soldier. His short time in the army shows being drunk, disobeying orders, etc., etc. (Sorry). His father shown as 'Edward' this time.
You'll find the family wrongly transcribed as 'Futtle' in 1911 so you'll now be able to find them.
According to the civil registration marriage records he married as Pat Tuttle in Sept.quarter 1921 Ennistimon to Mary Keatinge (spelling as listed) - ref. 4 112.
However, your Patrick can't be the one who died in 1954 as he was aged 75 i.e. b.1879 (coincidentally also a son of an Edward and Bridget and shown on your initial 1911 census instance).
The American online tree is wrong as 'their' Patrick b.1896 arrived in US with older brother John on 14/6/1915 and shipping manifest shows their father was in fact named John!
The only problem I'm finding is when 'your' Edward/Edmund Tuttle married Bridget (certainly not to Bridget Cleary in 1876).
Last census (now widowed) said he'd been married 15 years but think this should probably be 25 as eldest daughter born circa 1887/1888. The only Edward/Edmund Tuttle marriage I can locate in marriage indexes for relevant time was an Edmund Tuttle married June quarter 1886 Kilrush (Clare). However, I can't find a corresponding marriage for a Bridget in the same place with matching reference details. You might have to purchase one of their childrens birth certificates to establish Bridget's maiden name.
Annette
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1911 census link for convenience:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Clare/Ennis_No__4_Urban/Lysaght_s_Lane/353783/
Patrick Joseph Tuttle was baptised in Ennis in 1896, his parents were Edm(o/u)nd and Bridget (Hehir) Tuttle. In addition to the children in the 1901 / 1911 census returns, this couple also had a son Michael baptised in 1898.
John Thomas Tuttle appearing in the 1901 / 1911 census returns died in 1915 in WW1:
Son of Edmund and Bridget Hehir Tuttle, of Lysaghts Lane, Ennis, Co. Clare.
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/1771123/TUTTLE,%20JOHN
A bit more about the circumstances here (keep scrolling down, about a page in all):
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01g6q/
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Here is the Tuttle / Hehir marriage, should you wish to order a research copy from GRO Roscommon:
http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/0345c79399674
http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/cbff169383608
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Annette - Thank you so very much. I am going to start from scratch again - Thank you :)
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Superb, Thank you ever so much
Here is the Tuttle / Hehir marriage, should you wish to order a research copy from GRO Roscommon:
http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/0345c79399674
http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/cbff169383608
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Hi There
So, have you gone back to basics on this one ?
Looking at the start of your thread it wooud appear that a simple maths error has sent you on a wild goose chase.
So, to restart with Mary Theresa !
Have you got her birth cert to confirm her parent's names ?
Tara
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Sister Mary ?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FTJQ-6JF
9th July 1925 Probate of the Will of Mary Tuttle (Spinster) late of Derryharrive,Inagh. who died 5th June 1925 granted at Limerick to Patrick Tuttle,farmer.
you can order a testamentary copy here enter name into search archives here
http://www.nationalarchives.ie/search-the-archives/
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Well found, gaffy. I had seen the Bridget Hehir when searching for possible wife for the Edmund Tuttle marriage 1886 (on familysearch) but had rejected as his entry gave ref. as Vol.1 page 159 and hers as Vol.4 page 159. Just searched civil registration via your link and see that his entry should also read Vol.4 (and not volume 1) so familysearch have it wrong.
Can I ask, gaffy, where you found Patrick Joseph's baptism 1896 and the Michael in 1898 as I couldn't locate online?
Good to know on the right track now.
Annette
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Can I ask, gaffy, where you found Patrick Joseph's baptism 1896 and the Michael in 1898 as I couldn't locate online?
RootsIreland has the records, it is subscription based to view the content.
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We have her marriage certificate listing her father.
And of course my partner met her parents when young so that's the only way we know her parents names.
Hi There
So, have you gone back to basics on this one ?
Looking at the start of your thread it wooud appear that a simple maths error has sent you on a wild goose chase.
So, to restart with Mary Theresa !
Have you got her birth cert to confirm her parent's names ?
Tara