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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: IgorStrav on Thursday 24 September 15 23:16 BST (UK)
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The attached picture is John Barned, 1835-1899.
He was in the 53rd Regiment, and also served in the Crimea.
Can anyone help me with identifying the uniform in the photograph? Its date is unknown, but might be in 1878 when he was 43, in Jersey marrying Jane Eliza Lamy aged 20 ;)
I bet he was very dashing.
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Hi Igor....He does look to be in his early 40s doesn't he...is there nothing on the back to help ID the photographer?
Carol
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This uniform was worn by the entire British Army pretty much.
As you know who it is surely you've already identified it.
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You already know it, the 53rd Regiment, later the Kings Shropshire Light Infantry.
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Thank you all.
I had been told that the man had also been a Chelsea Pensioner - not sure if that is correct - and just wanted to be sure it was the 53rd Regiment uniform shown in the picture, which you have kindly confirmed.
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On the 1881 census in Manchester aged 40 with Jane 23 and is son John G W aged 17 indexed as Barnes. Chelsey ( how its written) Pensioner. 30 Humphrey Street Chorlton upon Medlock.
Jennifer
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1891 aged 50 with Jane 33 5 children and Ann L'amy mother in law in Woolwich. 47 Kidd Street
occ. General Labourer OSN? Barrack Woolwich Arsenal.
Jennifer
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That's him!
Yes, there is the description "Chelsea" pensioner, but not quite sure how that fits with the Lancashire location and the apparent change in the next census.
Has always been a bit odd, and wondered whether a check of the uniform in the photo would shed any light.
Apparently the experts say not - it's his army uniform.
Perhaps the census description should have said "army pensioner" and this was somehow misinterpreted by the enumerator.
Thanks for looking! :)
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Chelsea Pensioner is the term for any Army pensioner, he would have been classed as an out pensioner, as distinct from an in pensioner who would have worn the well known uniform.
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The Chelsea Pensioners Discharge Book shows he was discharged to pension on the 23rd November 1880 after 21 years and 20 days service.
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His occ. is Labourer when he bapt son Frederick James born 18/5/1889 on 9/6/1889 address Kidd Street.
Jennifer
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Thank you Jebber and Jennifer.
That explains the "Chelsea" reference which has puzzled us Thank you for the discharge details which confirm his enlistment date as 1859. However that casts doubt on the John Barned record I have found re the Crimea - would he gave been in a different regiment? Or left and then rejoined? Any thoughts?
Carol, sorry to have missed your post, no I don't have the original photo to see the photographer, just the scan. He was the father in law of my great aunt - yet another tangent to my tree. The Frederick mentioned by Jennifer was my great uncle by marriage.
But interesting looking man and who knows why he was in Jersey to marry his young bride!
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Hi Igor...I thought he deserved a clean up.
Carol
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Thank you, Carol.
Handsome fellow! And much smarter now ;D
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My pleasure...and yes he does ;D
Carol
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There is something not quite right. If you look at William Harrington on the line above they enlisted a few days apart and yet their regimental numbers are 125 apart. William Harrington (#482) is showing on both the 1861 and 1871 musters on Findmypast; and also the 1861 census in Devonport. But John Barned is not showing up anywhere, during his days as a soldier.
btw...VG5 means his character was Very Good and he had five good conduct 'badges' - inverted chevrons on his lower sleeve. Each was worth one penny a day extra pay. After he signed up for a second period of service (to take him to 20 years) he would have received another penny a day 're-engaged' pay.
You will have to look at the muster book for the 53rd when he enlisted to see if he transferred in from another regiment. although that service should have counted towards his pensionable service. It is in the National Archives (not online). Ancestry have a medal roll for the Crimea.
Ken
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Apologies for late response, Ken, have been away and only just seen your post.
You are looking on Findmypast for the musters? John Barned is in the 1861 in Devonport with the 53rd regiment, I can see him there in Ancestry. I have also seen him (or at least someone called John Barned) on the Crimea medal roll on Ancestry.
Where are you looking for the character reference, and the five good conduct badges?
I have recently invested in a month on Findmypast (as well as my annual subscription to Ancestry) so will have another look there.
Thank you for looking for him! :)
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Hi Ken
I have found the Findmypast reference for John Barned, his years of service and the Good Conduct commentary which you described, many thanks for pointing me in that direction.
If you tracked down the man listed above him, William Harrington, in the 1871 with the 53rd Regiment, can you tell me where you found that census listing? Because I think that John Barned must be there somewhere, possibly mistranscribed.
I have John Barned in the mid '50s in the Crimea, then in the 1861 with the 53rd, and then not till his marriage in Jersey in 1878, and subsequent to his retirement from the military in the 1881 as a Chelsea Pensioner in the 1881 in Manchester (no idea why he went there) - he subsequently moved to Greenwich in London, where one of his sons met and married my great aunt.
It would be good to fill in the gap between the 1861 and his appearance in Jersey in 1878.
:)