RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Immigrants & Emigrants - General => Topic started by: lisat on Wednesday 30 September 15 19:06 BST (UK)
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Would anyone know if it us likely that I could have ancestors, two brothers, both Jewish,one born about 1840, one born 1859, one from Grodno in today's Belarus, one born in Odessa, in the Ukraine. It seems such a long distance from These two places, but my research seems to prove they ended up in 1891 in Whitechapel living a few doors from each other. Other evidence suggests that they were brothers, and I know the Jews in the 1880's moved around Europe fleeing from the pogroms, but it seems unlikely. Any thoughts?
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I don't think the journey is at all improbable. Many people (Jewish and other denominations) migrated to the UK and much further afield at that time. They probably sailed from somewhere like Danzig (Gdansk) or Hamburg to Harwich or Hull.
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Thanks Elwyn, I agree that the journey to England is not a problem , but because I can't definitively proof they are brothers, I struggle to believe that one could be born in Ukraine and one in Grodno, when I thought that Jews might not have been able to move around in the Pale of Settlement at that time.
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As with all families, Jewish or not, it would depend on how strong the evidence is for their being brothers, and how common the surname is.
If by any chance it's WEINBERG, in the East End of London in the 1890s, I'd be extremely cautious, unless you have some strong documentary evidence. Even if they were related, with about 19 years between them they could be a generation apart.
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It is Weinberg, and you're right, I must do some more checking. I will go over all the evidence again.Thanks.
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What evidence do you have of where they are from ?
Some census answers to "Where are you from ?" could have different interpretations of answers especially if there waS LANGUAGE BARRIER for the recorder
. The town given could be administrative district
or town of departure before arriving in GB
not necessarily birth place.
My ggfather was 23 years older than his youngest half sibling .so don't rule it out . Their marriage certificates should give parents names .
have you tried school records ? they usually give an address + father /guardian's name
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Thanks Brigidmac. Neither were married in the UK, unfortunately. Marcus states he was from Grodno on his Naturalisation papers. On the 1891 census he just states Russia. Abraham and his wife and one son state Odessa on the 1891 Census. They live a few doors from each other in Whitechapel and both are cigarrette manufacturers. There are other connections , but I may have interpreted these wrongly. Got a lot of checking to do, and somehow I don't think I'll be able to prove anything conclusively. But thanks for the help.
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I was helped to find Russia Jewish bMD which helped me confirm sibling status
I'll have to go back + look at sources Jewish gen was hard to use at 1st but did get some info from there . + a lot from a latvian site
but mostly by people on here giving me initial examples ;
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Thanks Brigidmac for your help. I'll let you know if I get anywhere.
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Sorry Brigidmac,mall over the place today! Didn't sleep much last night, I had Weinbergs in my head!! Husband thinks I'm potty! Thanks for your help. I will keep going and let you know if I progress.
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No worries I'm the same just lost the reply I was putting on here while reading your 2nd double quoted pm !!
Your page has inspired me to go back + check up that
missing elder brother could be
Jacob Fellman who keeps cropping up in similar areas to my great grandfather George Jacob Fellman
he comes up as being a tailor which is their fathers profession (..sisters are dressmakers)
reports consistently says from Austria so i discounted him
the younger brother in USA who was also born in Courland (Russia/Latvia ) is consistently down as born Manchester on USA records ....but there is enough cross refs to know he is definitely same family .
"Austrian" Jacob is rather scandalous ..I've just read a 1913 news article about a court case which happens to mention that he's living with 82 year old grandad so now I've got to see if any of the older generation have corresponding birth years + if i can find a 1891/1901/1911 census with
Leib Yankel Fellman or equivalent English 1st names born in the 1820's or 30's
even if i do find same gdad jacob+ george may only be cousins
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Good luck with all that! The more I check my lot, the more I think I may have to accept that I can't prove some things. My gut feeling tells me there is definately a connection, but it's so complicated, I may never prove it.
I was intending to write all this up, but now, I'm searching, which I love, and not getting on with the recording!
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Lisat ..I am lucky that our family name with that spelling is unusual
Have just found that my Latvian GGfather definitely wasn't related to the Austrian man having linked up his wife+ in-laws from 1891,1901,1911 census
+ the criminal court details of 1913 ,confirms age profession + nationality ;
(BTW he got 6 months hard labour for carnal knowledge of a 15 year old)
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That's good, you've been working hard!
Carnal knowledge of a 15 year old, ooh. I found one of my lot sited incestuous infidelity in their divorce petition, but it turns out to be an affair with her brother in law. Not the thing in 1914 I guess.
It's real detective work sometimes!