RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cork => Topic started by: lyndo on Friday 02 October 15 11:27 BST (UK)
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Hi Rootschatters,
I am searching for a family of John Collins and Ellen Moxley/Moaksley/Mokesley from Cork, Cork Co.
I have them in Wales in Bedwellty in 1891, then Cork in 1901. John is listed as a shoemaker in this record. By 1911 Ellen is Head of Household with last child Lena born 1903.
So John must die between 1903 and 1911.
There is a family story that he died at sea.
I found a record in Marine Register of a death of a John Collins in 1906. From reading resource pages I understand that this record won't have much info - no family members.
I can't find a marriage between any John Collins and a Moaksley/Moxley woman. Ellen Moaxley was born about 1864, so youngest I would guess for marriage is about 15 yrs, so 1879 at the very earliest.
No one in the family knows the spelling of the Moaksley name.
I am happy to pay for the info on any site that has records but I just can't find a record to look at.
The parents names, and children's, are so common that I can't even determine a child's birth certificate to purchase, in the hope of finding mother's name.
Can anyone help me with this, please?
Any tips would be appreciated as to how I could proceed.
lyndo
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RC registers are online, free.. registers.nli.ie
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thanks hallmark,
I have worked through the 5 parishes in Cork, Co Cork.
Baptisms and Marriages.
Can't find them.
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/01g8p/ gets you location for Moaksleys in 1901
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http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/surname/index.cfm?fuseaction=Go.&UserID=
List of variants of surname on first link
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1408347
Civil Reg Indexes Ireland
Is it possible that the marriage took place in Wales?
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Putting the name Moxley into Griffith's Valuation (from around the late 1850/60s) only gives results for Cork
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch
it may be worth looking at parish records in these areas.
One of these men may be her father or grandfather.
The parish listed on these records is the Civil parish NOT the RC parish, that would have to be figured out.
Cork Co,Cork sounds like it refers to the city but my not have been the intended to.
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That surname place gave me some alternatives.
Most of them I have have used already but Mohally I haven't.
I have searched in FreeBMD for a marriage from all over Uk for John Collins from 1878 to 1886.
Then checked for partner on every name.
returned nothing.
then entered Ellen Moaxly spelled 4 different ways. That was easier as only few women appeared but I did same. No John Collins partner.
I have found Moaksleys in the civil Registrations.
Can't move backwards toward them until I know her proper name.
EG
Child born 1880 named Mary Bridget Collins mother Ellen Coakly father John Collins.
Seems like it must be them but until I get marriage I can't be sure its them.
My Collins family have a Mary born 1886. Does this mean first Mary died and they named next daughter Mary too.
I have been doing family history for yonks and never have I had this trouble!!
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I know I must sound like a dork, Sinann.
I haven't a clue to find out what the parishes are.
When I work it out I might put it on Resources page.
I have had a lot of help from those resource posts.
Seems like my best next step is to print off a map of Cork and work out where all these places are.
I guess I will need a map from 1860 or so.
Then go back to NLI parish records armed with the names of every town and then just work through every set of registers that are on there for the County of Cork.
Doesn't help that I live half way round the world in down under without a clue as to what a townland is or a DED.
Well next task - get the map and work out the civil parishes in relation to church parishes.
Good geography lesson for me.
I am gonna end up buying 10 birth certificates for one of the children til I get the right one!!!
If I'm blessed it will be the first one I get. :D :D :D :D
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Yes most likely that the first Mary died. (assuming its the same family)
http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/browse/counties/rcmaps/
Link with RC parishes
http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/browse/counties/civilmaps/
Civil Parishes on 2nd link
http://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/Irish-land-divisions.html
link explains DEDs, Reg Districts, townlands
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Thanks conahy calling
That is a great site with the parishes.
Bit gobsmacked when I see how many names are there to work through.
Bit embarrassed by toolkit link as I spent a lot of yesterday reading on that website.
Great resource and lots of explanations for outlanders like me.
I am glad I posted here because I have other families to look at as well, in other counties so it is practical advice for further work as well.
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Griffith's gives a James and Patrick Moxley in Ballyclogh townland. Making sure it's the one in the civil parish of Glanworth. Historic parish on OSI mapviewer
So I found that on the OSI map http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/
Than with an idea where it is use the map on the parish registers to choose possible parishes and follow the links on the Irish Times link (bottom of the page on each parish site) ans check first the Civil parish and than the townland is listed.
Ballyclogh is covered by the RC parish of Glanworth and Ballindangan.
http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0054
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Next one is William Moxley townland Kilpatrick Civil Parish Brinny.
It looks to be very close to Bandon but is not listed there it appears it comes under Innishannon.
http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0061
Hope I have those correct.
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Thanks Sinann,
I appreciate you giving me the direct link. Have to pack it in for the night now. Closing on midnight where I am. i will start working through those parish records tomorrow.
lyndo :) :)
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Begs the question are eith of these places anywhere close to where they settled in Cork?
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Hi There
What record have you gotten that her maiden name was Moxley (or variants) from ?
Tara
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The family in 1901 for reference.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Dunmanway/West_Green/1142206/
Tara
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Are you positive that the family in Wales and the family in Cork are one and the same as the 1901 Census states that all the children were born in Cork ?
Tara
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They don't seem to be in either of those parishes.
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Can you also tell us where you have Ellen and the 8 year old Lena in 1911 ???
Tara
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1911 Census states that she was married ???
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Cork_No__4_Urban__part_of_/Corbett_s_Lane/390451/
Tara
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The 1911 Census also shows those born in Wales :)
Tara
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Original 1911 is a mess
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001866040/
Tara
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Were you aware that John was in prison ?
Tara
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Have you tried for the marriage in Wales ?
Have you looked for them on earlier English / Wales census ?
Tara
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It's possible that John was in hospital in 1911.
There is a JC Shoemaker in Shanakiel Hospital.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/St__Mary_s/Shanakiel/403399/
Tara
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James is only 4 months in 1901 so likely born in Dunmanway I only see one James Collins born in 1900 his mother's name is McCarthy
http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/744f781432320
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Possibly the 1903 Ellen Collins that OP referred to as 'Lena' also with the maiden name of MCCARTHY !
http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/f97bb31219221
Tara
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John Collins & Ellen McCarthy 1883 Dunmanway marriage
First name John
Last name Collins
Registration year 1883
Registered Quarter/Year Jul - Sep 1883
Registration district Dunmanway
Volume 5
Page 161
Tara
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I wonder was MOXLEY (and variants) a badly transcribed MCCARTHY
I could see it happening !
Tara
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I wonder was MOXLEY (and variants) a badly transcribed MCCARTHY
I could see it happening !
Tara
I was thinking the same, have to wait for the OP to get back and show where the name was found originally.
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Daniel Collins went to prison in 1907.
His father John was still alive and listed as Daniel's next of kin.
BTW Daniel was born in Douglas, Wales.
Tara
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Oh and the address in 1907 was Corbett's Lane, the same as the address on the 1911 Census.
Tara
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There is another prison record :
1905 for a Denis Maurice Collins living in Dunmanway aged 17.
He was also born in Douglas, Wales.
He has his UNCLE John Collins of West Green (match to 1901 Census) as his next of kin.
Tara
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http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001901263/
The 1911 actual census page for JC shoemaker
4th from the end !
Tara
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Aw,
That's sad, I've just seen what he was in for :'(
Tara
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Hi Lyndo
The 1911 Census for John and the family story of him 'dying at sea' could be a super sad story BUT it's too hard to work out when he died due to it being such a common name.
Tara
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Thanks for all the work you have done Tara, and you too Sinann.
The only info that I have is anecdotal. Remembered by a grandchild who is now 81 yrs old.
There is no proof of anything.
The only thing I have is a family story that John Collins was a sea captain who went down with his ship. And that his youngest child Elena never knew her father much because he died when she was young.
The young couple John and Ellen, ran away to marry and went from Cork to Wales then back to Cork.
The mothers name was Ellen Moaksley.(spelling?)
And names of four sons.Danny, John, Jeremiah and James.
My understanding of it is they were in Cork city. But it might not be so.
That is all I have.
From that I found the 1911 census with the childrens names. (I realize now that another Collins family could have named their children exactly the same way.)
From that I found 1891 census record for Bedwelty in Wales.
That gave me "shoemaker" reference so I then found 1901 census in Cork.
Then just by accident I stumbled onto the marine register death of John Collins.
So I just found the name and ran with it basically. Faulty premises following first mistake!!
You know Tara - what you have found makes sense to me.
I live in Australia and find it difficult to understand all the little towns and villages in Ireland.
I will follow through on all you have provided because I think that you are on the right track with this.
lyndo
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Tara - just looking at that lunatic asylum record.
Did you find it looking for John Collins or just JC.?
On that 1911 census I did note that Ellen Collins is not recorded as a widow but as "Married"
Oh I can see that I have been too simplistic in my approach to this.
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Can someone take a look at this record and have a go at deciphering what is written above "Wife"
Looks like 5 something. Any idea what it means.
Plenty of McCarthys in that same page of census records
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000570228/
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Well - Thanks to you Tara,
I finally got a lead.
The nephew Dennis Collins in jail with Uncle John looking out for him.
Denis Morris Collins
Sep qtr 1888 Merthyr Tydfil RD
Volume: 11a p 553
yippee.
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Can someone take a look at this record and have a go at deciphering what is written above "Wife"
Looks like 5 something. Any idea what it means.
Plenty of McCarthys in that same page of census records
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000570228/
It just the letter F,
It's not the only thing on that page that has been changed, all that column has stuff rubbed out, I think John started to fill it in as a occupations column, that scholar or something has been rubbed out for each of the children, there is something underneath each entry at any rate, also Hannah, Dan and John have alterations made.
It's unlikely to have any significant effect on the information gleaned from the return just someone getting confused with what went where or how best to name the children.
Read and Write has been changed for James as well to Cannot read, looks like the enumerator did that one at least.
Ah looking some more I think he changed the order the children were listed, so had to change Daughter to Son and vica versa and than the ages
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Thanks Sinann,
I have seen that ghost writing on some other census records I have.
It never occurred to me that it was rubbing out marks. But of course it would be lead pencil.
They couldn't drag around an inkwell and pen and nib and blotters.
I remember how awful that was when I was growing up. Fortunately biros came when I was about 12.
lyndo
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UGH Lyndo
So, are you saying that none of what you presented in your original pos is fact.
Can we go back to basics then ?
What Collins person is your blood ?
Can you tell us what facts you have on that person and then we can relook at this ?!
Tara
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This is the ONLY facts I have.
Marriage 5th June 1928
John Monaher Barman father Pt. Monaher Railway worker. 1 Corbetts Square, O.Y.Rd
Lena Collins father John Collins deceased 194 O.Y.Rd,
Church of St Joseph Registrar District 1 Union of Cork in the County of York.
Uggh is right Tara - but the Corbett place 1911 census seems right don't you think from this and those boys in prison with John Collins in Corbett Lane as family contact which you found??
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Do you have the actual marriage cert ?
Is there not an occupation down for John ?
Tara
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Yes I do have cert.
Only thing written for him in Occupation space is Dec.
His grandchild says he was already dead by the marriage.
She knew her grandma Ellen Collins who she swears was Mokesly/or any soundex.
I am only interested in the Collins side.
For interest the Monaher is from Cork city and Mackessy wife from Buttevant. I have done that part as far back as I can get.
1901 Buttevant census for both families.
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Sorry
Monaher parents Catherine (Kate) MacKessy and Patrick Monaher
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Buttevant/Main_Street/1127782/
MacKessy
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Buttevant/Main_Street/1127703/
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Well
The Collins family that I researched and posted details on match SOME of the family stories.
The maiden name and the occupation being the differences ones and they are two biggies.
I can't think of any way to marry the two though.
Hum, is it possible that the occupation / surname is a generation back is John's PARENTS ?
Tara
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Are you sure the Mckessy and Moxley aren't getting mixed up ?
Tara
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Did your Grandmother ever mention what happened her uncles ?
Possibly working on them might give leads !
Tara
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Well I made the suggestion!! I thought the exact same thing.
But apparently they are different names!! Adamant that the names are different.
I personally think that the McCarthy is correct. You independently came to the same census records that I did, when I did not say what they were.
You added the danny boyo's prison stuff which gives his Welsh birth and birthdate.
Sinann added James birth and you, baby Ellen( that is one I will run past her.)
Added to that the nephew's record Dennis Morris Collins with uncle's West Green address.
It provides approx time they moved - between 1905 and 1907.
The only bit I don't get is the Douglas /Donlan place of birth in Wales. I have spent half of today working through census records for Collins in Wales in 1901 and 1911 on Ancest.. - disregarding the names and concentrating solely on the place names.
Just searching the 3 separate names Douglas, Doulan, and Donlan in Google for Wales got me no where.
It may be an English name for a Welsh name. It looks like Merthyr T. is where Dennis Collins was born.
I can't show all these results to the granddaughter til end next week. I can't name her as her whole family is still alive from her generation.
But I will get back to you as soon as I get an answer.
I know from experience of my other families that stories that get handed down usually have some truth but often belong to someone other than the person the story is about.
One of my stories had a man born in Kerry who became a priest then ran away and became a ships cabin boy.
The truth was that he lived in Bermuda and was trained to the priesthood but didn't take his final vows. We never discovered how he got to Australia.
Another family had a cabin boy in it!!
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Douglas is the placename in Wales.
Tara
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I haven't seen any istances of Collins / Moxley showing up together.
That's not to say they aren't there just that I can't see any which does make you wonder.
It can be hard when a relative as a certain impression of the facts, especially when it's based on handed down stories.
IF and it's a big IF the John that was in the asylum in 1911 it's quite likely family would give an alternate life story for him.
BUT shoemaker to ship captain is too much of a stretch.
The whole 'running away to get married' doesn't match the Corbetts lane family ~ they were married in Cork.
I was hoping to trace more on Denis to see if I could get a lead that way but no joy so far.
Tara
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Thanks Tara,
You obviously saw the original record not just the familysearch record that had the name spelt wrong.
Can you tell me how to get the original record.
I fed a months euros in to rootsireland but so far haven't got anything from it.
With Sinann's help I finally got onto Irish genealogy and was able to see the 2 birth records.
I might post on the Welsh boards to see if anyone knows where Douglas is.
lyndo
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I am just on my tablet at the mo but shall post all the records when my kids let me at the laptop.
Just a question, is the lady you refer to the daughter of Lena ?
When you can, ask her what her Mum's birthday was and see is it a good match to then Ellen in 1903 that I posted.
They aren't always an exact match for a million and one reasons but can be a good indicator as to whether you are on the right track or not.
Tara
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Yes she is a daughter of Lena.
I will ask her because that is so simple.
I need to get all the birthdays from her. I should have got them before I started.
And certainly it could be a generation further back. Particularly because she isn't far removed in time from John Collins. You would think that she would have details.
Once I jog her memory she will start remembering stuff about all of them.
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One of the rootschatters on Welsh boards found
Dowlais in the Parish of Merthyr Tydfil
Sounds good to me. I felt Dennis Morris Collins was born in Merthyr T.
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Super !
Tara
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Denis seems to disappear.
Other than the prison record I can't see him.
I was looking at this chap as a possibility.
POB different and age out but middle name initial there which intrigues me.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Cork_No__5_Urban__part_of_/Maymount/399543/
Tara
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I need to ask about all these people - with a tape recorder going!!
I looked in the immigration records earlier today, and found a Dennis right age going to USA about 1924.
I didn't record it.
There wasn't an RC church in Dowlais Merthyr T in Wales so he will take a bit of searching out for the baptism record.
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This is Daniel's 1907 prison record.
When you look at his PB it says DOULAS ~ obvs spelt incorrectly but same place as Denis !
Tara
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This is Denis Collins 1905 Prison Record.
It also says DOULAS !
Tara
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Have you an age for Denis, lots of Collins born in Merthyr Tydfil reg district on free BMD
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He was born 1888.
Lyndo psted the references to it earlier ~ I just can't see it now !
Tara
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There is a Denis Angelus Collins June 1887
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This is the chap here !
Denis Morris Collins
Registration Year: 1888
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Merthyr Tydfil
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 553
Tara
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He's not coming up on Free BMD mmmmmm
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Re the Collins / McCarthy chldren :
1911 Ellen says that 7 are still alive :
Mary b 1896 Cork (on 1901 Census with her)
* Her POB could be wrong ~ are you aware of what became of her after 1901 ?
Hannah b 1897 Cork (on 1911 Census with her)
* Her POB could be wrong ~ are you aware of what became of her after 1901 ?
Daniel b 1890 Wales (on 1911 census with her)
* We have him in 1907 in prison and in 1911 with his Mum, any idea what happened him after 1911 ?
John b 1892 Wales (on 1911 census with her)
* Any ideas as to what happened him after 1911 ?
Jeremiah b 1897 Cork (on 1911 census with her)
* Any ideas as to what happened him after 1911 ?
James b 1900 Cork (on 1911 census with her)
* Any ideas what happened him after 1911 ?
Ellen b 1903 Cork (on 1911 census with her)
* Obvs you know this line well !!
Just any leads on the other siblings might help !
Tara
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I'm not sure where / how Lyndo found that ref ???
Tara
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Looks like FamilySearch
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Yep
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2XR2-FJX
The Angelus chap is there as well
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I wonder is the Denis Collins in the 1901 Census age 14 with father Daniel born Ireland, the Denis Morris or the Denis Angelus
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSM2-T8P
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I'm presuming Denis Maurice given that he is Denis M on the 1911 Census !
Tara
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Let's see can we connect Daniel & John so !
Tara
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John Collins 1901 Prison Record !
Tara
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That's really good Tara.
I will copy and paste the records. Always looks better when you are showing the family a handwritten record.
As soon as I saw Dow I realised it could be Dou and that las is just shortened lais.
What a great find.
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Well I had missed a few posts when I answered.
Between the two of you Sinann and Tara you have pulled those 2 families together.
I will get the census records printed for Daniel Collins snr (Denis's father) in Merthyr T.
I was pleased to see
" Ecclesiastical Parish St John Dowlais"
Maybe I will get his baptism record there - and if so its probably where Hannah Collins 1887, Daniel Collins 1890-1, and John Collins 1893 are also Baptised.
I shouldn't have quit at midnight - its a pain that I am about 8 or 9 hrs ahead of you.
Is the John Collins prison record the one for drunkeness with Ellen as contact.
I saw a few of them on Family Search but I don't know how to get them in the proper record like you have for Daniel and Denis, Tara.
I thought it was a bit sad a boy would be stealing groceries. At least in jail he would get food.
You know one thing I feel a bit proud about with these Irish families ( all of them not just my families) is that they could ALL read and write.
I have English families in my line who could not read and write. Many of them who could not sign their name even. And when they got to Australia that didn't change. The Scottish ancestors could also read and write.
Good on Ireland for education standards back in the 1800's
lyndo
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John Collins 1901 Prison Record !
Tara
This is fantastic.
It says he was drunk 15 yrs ago in Merthyr t. and from West Green Dunmaway.
Oh these are gold nuggets to me.!!
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Hi Lyndo
The issue here still is, how to we prove / disprove that this is the correct family ???
I doubt Lena's daughter is going to believe that a ship's captain dying at sea could most likely be a shoemaker who possibly died in an asylum.
Everything else appears to match though, names, ages, residences in Wales, residences in Cork . . .
Have you talked to her since to see how she is taking these finds ?
Tara
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Great questions Tara,
After family discussion today we have decided to Halt the search at this point.
We are going to get death cert for Lena, so we at least have correct year if not actual birthday for her.
I will come back to the thread then.
If the info proves not be this family we have searched out, I will not waste it.
I will put a partial tree on both My heritage and Ancestry so someone can find it, when they come looking.
Hopefully it will be my own tree!!
Thanks to all of you for your help.
lyndo
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Hi Lyndo
Just to note :
The death cert will not prove / disprove anything.
The info is obviously given by someone else and is always prone to errors so as such can't be 'trusted' as fact.
My hope is that some of Lena's siblings descendants will see this thread and be able to shed some light on the family.
Tara
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Sorry,
Just one last question that you didn't get back to me on . . .
Can Lena's daughter remember who ANY of her Collins aunts or uncles married ?
This would be the easiest way to resolve this !
Tara
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I wonder was there a common 'exodus' of Collins' from Dunmanway to Wales ?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=700918.msg5439357#msg5439357
Tara
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Another
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=400159.msg2700196#msg2700196
Tara
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. . . and another . . .
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=712380.msg5561782#msg5561782
Tara
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yes they were clearing out in their thousands during and after the famine.
I just read a book on it. Cried buckets. Shocking!!
Had to stop reading it I was getting so angry with the authorities and landowners who sat back and watched it unfold.
In fact I got way past angry- into rage.
Thanks for links to other threads. I have had a look.
Re questions - she can't tell me any more. She doesn't know about the others in the family.
Frustrating but there it is!
lyndo
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That's Ok !
Just thought I'd ask.
Best Of Luck !
Tara
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Hi Everyone who has helped with this..
It has been confirmed that is the right family
Further families memories have been awakened, which have confirmed the birth date of Lena as 1/1/1903.
Great job everyone!!
lyndo
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Yippeeeeee
Listen, let us know if the family want to go back further.
The start would be to get the marriage of John & Ellen.
We can also work on Daniel too !
Tara
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Oh, let us know if you get the baptism for Denis !
His Mum's name on it will help to track down his parent's marriage in Ireland.
Tara
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Great news.
It should be possible to find more about this family, have fun and good luck and as Tara said let us know if you need help.
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Actually I hadn't thought about Denis.
The census says his Mum was Elizabeth and she was born in Wales. Probably in Dowlais too.
His Dad was Daniel Collins.
I should be able to get them on Free BMD.
I have to wait another week and a half before the LDS family centres are open again here. then 2 weeks til films arrive after that.
I am happy for you to take a look at the family but I have absolutely NO info on the generation further back.
Maybe its Moaxly/Moaksley marriage but its just a guess.
You all probably know how the naming thing works in families, so you might be able to work out from the sons what John Collins father might have been named.
They named the first boy after the grandfather, didn't they? Trouble is they lost a couple of kids.
1911 census says they had 9 children born alive but only 7 living in 1911.
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HaHa that would be right!!
Which Elizabeth??
marriage June 1887
Daniel Joseph Collins Merthyr T.
John Evans
Virgo Elizabeth
Whelan Elizabeth
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OK SO,
Here is Daniel Collins in 1904, living in Dunmanway.
The important thing with this document is that it says that he was BORN in Dunmanway, so we defo need to look for Daniel & John's baptisms in Dunmanway parish.
http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0048
Tara
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OOOPPPSSS SORRY
Ignore my last post ~ I thought it said BUILDER but it doesn't it says BUTCHER
So, it's not the guy we are looking for !
Tara
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YIKES
Early days
BUT
Could this be Daniel and John ??? :o ???
We have presumed that John & Ellen ran from Cork TO Wales to get married !
COULD it actually have been the other way around IE The ran from Wales to CORK to get married ?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V51C-RPZ
Tara
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Hi Tara,
That is a great find because I can look for a birth for the 2 boys in those two places and also the parents marriage.
You are a real terrier at this. I am so glad that you are helping us.
The info is uploaded to a proper tree on Ancestry now. My cousin will be adding it as we find more along the way.
I see that I need to add every link I find onto the thread so everyone can click on it and see what I am talking about.
lyndo
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1851 UK census for Wales
Name: Denis Collins
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1842
Relation: Son
Father's name: Daniel Collins
Mother's name: Honora Collins
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil Parish or Township: Cardiff St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
Town: Cardiff
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration district: Cardiff
Its starting unfold a bit now.
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Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Dec 1846 (>99%)
Collins Julia Swansea 26 519 Scan available - click to view
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1861 Wales census
Name Age
Daniel Collins 41 Ireland
Honorah Collins 40 "
Dennis Collins 17 "
Julia Collins 11 Cardiff
Michael Collins 7 Cardiff
Michael Fleming 20 Ireland
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I don't think its the right family.
I decided to follow them forward
to 1891 and found John Collins still in the house, but our John was already married and in the census somewhere else.
1891 Wales census.
Name
Denis Collins 44
Catherine Collins 44
John Collins 26 Son
Daniel Collins 24 son at 242 High St.
In 1881 Wales Census at 242 High St
Denis Collins 37
Catherine Collins 37
Marry 21
Daniel 17 son
lyndo :'( :'( :'(
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Aw,
'Twas too good to be true :'(
Tara
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I think this is the nephew Denis with his parents in Merthyr T Glamorgan in the 1891 census.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSM2-T8P
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Blimey LOOK
I found the will of John's brother Daniel :o
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014922/005014922_00138.pdf
Tara
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If you guys ever feel like gambling €4 then I would hazard a guess that this is the death of John Collins.
For the story of Lena to not have really known her father as he died when she was so young then this appears to be the best match based on closeness to 1911, his year of birth, and his place of death.
Again though it would be a gamble !
First name(s) John
Last name Collins
Birth year 1862
Age at death 50
Registered year 1912
Registered quarter/year Oct - Dec 1912
Registration district Cork
Volume 5
Page 86
Tara
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This then would appear to be Daniel's death.
First name Daniel
Last name Collins
Birth year 1868
Age at death 51
Registered year 1919
Registered quarter/year Apr - Jun 1919
Registration district Cork
Volume 5
Page 98
Tara
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HOLD ONTO YOUR SOCKS
I THINK I have John and his parent's & siblings.
Now WARNING 'tis still early days and will take some work BUT I'm feeling positive !
So, to start with John ~
My instinct is that his parent's were called Denis Collins & Mary Hurley
So, I shall post everything and then I can work on it to see if I'm correct.
So, John's baptism b 1859
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/4ac53e0170884
Then back to his parent's marriage !
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/09b84d0029047
So, on to other children of Denis & Mary
Ellen b 1860
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/f21f250171190
Denis b 1862
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/30a89a0171662
Mary b 1864
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/9239ef0172095
Kate b 1866
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/30a89a0171662
Daniel b 1868 (BIG YIPPEEE WHEN I SAW THIS ONE) ;D
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/884d0d0173053
James b 1870
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/1ae6c90173627
Died 1892 in the US
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N7YG-JV5
Julia b 1872
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/a7a3560174125
Married in the US
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N4HB-WPT
Timothy b 1874
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/ff0a140174637
Died 1892 in the US
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N7R5-T9S
PLEASE NOTE THAT THERE IS A LATER DENIS COLLINS & MARY HURLEY IN SKIBBEREEN ~ NOT RELATED !!!
Tara
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John Collins original 1859 baptism
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633410#page/172/mode/1up
Tara
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BTW
If you go onto any of the baptisms that I posted and scroll down to the bottom of the page you will see a link that will bring you into the original records.
Tara
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Mary Collins went to the US and got married !
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:2:34VN-NYR
Tara
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James Collins baptism is here and it says that Denis was a labourer.
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/IRL-CORK/2004-08/1091922526
Tara
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Coolkel(l)ure is in Fanlobbus ;D ;D ;D
Tara
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The Denis Collins here in Derrduff I THINK is the correct one !
http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/cork/fanlobbus.htm
Tara
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You have been busy whilst I have been sleeping Tara !!
One of the things I picked up in the Griffith land valuation was that there was a John Collins and a John McCarthy both in Cat Lane, and also all the Collins in Main St Dunmanway.
I will work back through everything you found.
Reading those baptism and marriage records is amazing .
Every priest had a different way of doing them. Some tidy - some not. :o :o
and thanks for the tip on getting the actual record.
I think its important because sometimes transcriptions are wrong.
In the Daniel Collins census in 1901 in Wales, the transcribers never turned the page and found 3 extra people in the house - one of them Elizabeth, the wife of Head of Household.
You would think he was a widower from that transcription. ::)
lyndo
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You will need to tread carefully in Dunmanway as Collins is a VERY common surname there.
Yup, next step is to get the marriage of John & Ellen.
Sure they are only €4 ;D
Tara
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Tara, can you tell me how a newly married couple would have usually named their sons.
I think its the childs paternal grandpa first, then maternal grandpa next, isn't it?
Did they do the girls the same way after their grandma's.
I have started reading through the baptisms in Dunmanway and I think I have all the Denis Collins and Mary Hurley births now.
I might be off the air for a while as I just got a call while I was typing this, to say my nephew has been in an accident and the car is totalled. Family needing support. No info on his condition.
lyndo
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Traditionally the first son was given the man's father's name.
First daughter given the woman's mother's name.
There were always exceptions to this though.
Tara
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Hope your nephew is okay.
Tara
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Broken bones but nothing more serious and some bruising as well.
Not even concussion and the person who hit him not seriously injured either.
They were both lucky. Their cars broke on impact which dissipates the energy of the crash.
You can buy a new car with your insurance money but broken bodies are not replaceable.
We will get the euro 4 cert for John and Ellen.
I will come back when we find out their parents. Wish it was like Scotland where you buy it instantly and online on Scotland's People. In 10 minutes you know who they were and can just keep going.
lyndo
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Hello, Lyndo and all,
I know this is years later. I found your posts here in searching for McCarthys from Cork to Wales. I am intrigued by your Ellen McCarthy and wonder of your Collinses went to Wales because of a connection to McCarthys there.
All I know is that my ggf Denis McCarthy was born in 1859 in Glamorgan, Wales and came to USA, Pittsburgh, PA, about 1868/70. Here he married Mary Donlan and they had James Anthony, Francis Carroll (my gf) and Eileen. Denis's parents MAY have been Daniel and Norah Mahoney but the tree showing this has no documentation for it.
You say in subsequent posts that you have started a tree on ancestry, but searching Ellen McCarthy Collins in Trees does not bring it up.
It's a longshot, I know, but if you have any insight, I'd so appreciate it! Just confirmed this year that Francis is my gf. He died in 1949 and had his family far away so I have no connection and no info.
Thanks very much!
Meg
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Hi Lindo. I am in Abertawe, Cymru (Swansea, Wales). My surname is Collins and my family came here to Abertawe circa1848, from Bandon, West Cork. Don't know if there is any connection?
Diolch Keith
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Well - Thanks to you Tara,
I finally got a lead.
The nephew Dennis Collins in jail with Uncle John looking out for him.
Denis Morris Collins
Sep qtr 1888 Merthyr Tydfil RD
Volume: 11a p 553
yippee.
Dennis Collins would interest me. My gg grandfather was a Dennis Collins, from Bandon, West Cork. Relatively close to Dunmanway. Merthyr is also about 30 miles from Abertawe (Swansea)
Keith
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Hi
Apologies for finding this thread 5 years after it started.
The Denis Morris Collins born in Merthyhr Tydfil 1888 is my Great Grandfather.
He lived in Merthyr and went to Dunmanway to stay with family before marrying Susan Dillon in Glasgow 1909
His father was Daniel Collins and mother Elizabeth Whelan (or Whalan). Elizabeth was born in Wales and Daniel, we believe in Dunmanway.
Would love to know where the track of the record in this thread lead to as it is certainly crossing across where I am looking... particularly the relationship between Dennis Morris and John as I have been working on assumption (with family and records) that the prison record in 1905 for Dennis Morris is my G Grandfather and therefore exploring that John Collins the Shoemaker in West Green was his Uncle.
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Hi all,
I'm looking for information on my x3 great-grandmother Ellen Collins, as I'm drawing a bit of a dead end with her maiden name and can't seem to find any information on Ancestry. She was born in 1826 in Dunmanway and married Michael Collins (b. 1821, Dunmanway) but that's all I know about her.
Any information on her family and maiden name would be greatly appreciated.
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Hi all,
I'm looking for information on my x3 great-grandmother Ellen Collins, as I'm drawing a bit of a dead end with her maiden name and can't seem to find any information on Ancestry. She was born in 1826 in Dunmanway and married Michael Collins (b. 1821, Dunmanway) but that's all I know about her.
Any information on her family and maiden name would be greatly appreciated.
Thought I would update and say that I found out she was Ellen McCarthy (b. 1826). Still looking for information on her parents names though.