RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Meath => Topic started by: sparksss67 on Monday 05 October 15 21:23 BST (UK)
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I wonder can anyone help with any information regarding the Murphy family from this area. I have a mass card for a Kate Murphy nee Keeffe who passed away on 11 June 1926 which gives her home as Clongiffin, Enfield. She had a sister called Mary Ann. Kate married a James Murphy about 1871/72 or so in this area of Meath we reckon.
Their first child was James and he was baptised in Killine parish on 21 February 1874. The witnesses were a Thomas Proctor and a Mary Monaghan. Another son was Thomas born 4 December 1880 and we think this may be the same Thomas who was the first treasurer of the Longwood GAA.
We think the father James who married Kate had a brother Patrick and he is our family line but the Mass card is the only connection we have with this area as all Patrick's children were born in Wicklow. So anything that may shed light on why our family had this Mass card would be much appreciated.
Thanks for any help with this matter.
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Have you Patrick Murphy's marriage cert as it should give his father's name. I looked for a marriage of
James and Kate (Catherine) around 1872 but only found a church marriage that might be a possibility but its in Killucan Westmeath not Meath. Posting here as it may be relevant eventually.
Church Marriage Record
Date of Marriage: 10-Feb-1873
Parish / District: KILLUCAN County: Co. Westmeath
Husband Wife
Name: James Murphy Kathleen Kieffe
Address: Not Recorded Not Recorded
Denomination: Roman Catholic Roman Catholic
Occupation: Not Recorded Not Recorded
Age: Not Recorded Not Recorded
Status: Bachelor (Previously unmarried) Spinster (Previously unmarried)
Husband's Father Wife's Father
Name: Not Recorded Murphy Not Recorded Kieffe
Husband's Mother Wife's Mother
Name: Not Recorded Not Recorded
annclare
Added found a civil marriage in the index for Catherine Keeffe Year 1873 Registration district Mullingar Quarter 1 volume 3 Page 330 and a James Murphy has the same registration details so it is possibly the correct marriage. Getting a copy will confirm James' father's name and may match info from Patrick's marriage cert.
annclare
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James Murphy on the 1901 Census
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Meath/Innfield/Clonguiffin/1621398/
Tara
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. . . and again in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Meath/Innfield/Clonguiffin/730045/
Tara
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Where in Wicklow did Patrick Murphy live ?
Do you have him on the 1901 Census ?
Tara
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The Wicklow family.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=723636.msg5678695#msg5678695
Tara
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Thanks for the prompt replies Ann and Tara, very helpful. Regarding Patrick he married an Ellen Broe/Brow as we have found their names on their children's baptisims including my great grandfather Daniel Murphy. We don't have a cert for their marriage but we reckon they married about 1860 give or take a year as their first son that we know of was Michael born in Rathvilly in 1862. We don't know where Patrick and Ellen married but one theory we have is that perhaps James inherited the family farm and so Patrick moved on and settled eventually in Rathdrum, Co. Wicklow. But this is pure speculation.
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Bar a VERY common surname, in common, have your ANYTHING to say that the Meath family and the Wicklow family are related ?
Tara
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As you can see in the link Tara posted the family settled in Rathdrum but Patrick died in 1896. Ellen shows in the census of 1901 as still in Rathdrum.
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You say 'settled' so are you under the presumption that Patrick originated in Meath ?
If so is this based on facts ?
Could he not just have been a Wicklow man ?
Tara
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Bar a VERY common surname, in common, have your ANYTHING to say that the Meath family and the Wicklow family are related ?
Tara
The only link we have is the Mass card and we guess our grandfather would not have kept it unless it was very important to him. It was in a box with treasured family photos.
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There is a Patrick Murphy and Ellen Kehoe (kinda sounds like Broe) writing isn't great so it's possibly them.
It's 1861 and it says they were living in Talbotstown, which you mentioned.
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634564#page/111/mode/1up
Tara
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Lots of Murphys on GV n the Talbotstown region.
Again common surname so is always tricky.
http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/wicklow/kilranelagh.htm
Tara
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I presume this is Ellen then !
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wicklow/Ballinderry/Ballintombay_Lower/1816135/
Tara
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You say 'settled' so are you under the presumption that Patrick originated in Meath ?
If so is this based on facts ?
Could he not just have been a Wicklow man ?
Tara
They were living in Talbotstown, Co. Wicklow when Michael was born and then for the remainder of the children the baptisims are in Rathdrum, Co. Wicklow. So again we are just guessing he may have moved around. Really the Mass card for Kate is the mystery as we have no other links to this area and we are eager to know if the parents of her husband James might be the same as Patrick's. We found a Patrick and James as sons of a James Murphy and Cathy Fitzgerald in the Summerhill registers and a sister Rose. Patrick named one of his daughters Rosanna but it was a popular name at the time of course.
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Due to the fact that Patrick's marriage was before civil registration you are kind of up against a brick wall to get his father's name at least.
IF that was his marriage that I posted then there is no father's name against the record.
There's no way that I can see to prove that James and Patrick were brothers for now.
As you say, the mass card was obviously kept for a reason, as to whether it was that she was married to blood family or was related in some other manner is hard to see for now.
You appear to have some great family mementos in your possession, I sure hope someone can work out the connection :)
Tara
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Using just familysearch
I can't see a Patrick Murphy and Ellen KEHOE having children . . .
So, I'm wondering IF that marriage that I posted WAS actually for Ellen BROE ???
Tara
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This is the James Murphy marriage that Annclare posted
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635230#page/35/mode/1up
Again, no fathers mentioned
Tara
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Thanks again for your help Tara, you appear to love solving mysteries just like me lol. I have discussed that Kehoe wedding with my brother but as Broe is a common name in west Wicklow particularly around Blessington we feel it is unlikely a spelling error but you never know in this genealogy game. Again a theory is that if our Patrick was from Enfield he may have met Ellen on his way south to find work, and got married along the way. If we could just find the parents of Patrick and James all would be revealed of course but the further we go back the less details are given on marriage registers as you know. My brother and I decided to post this in the hope maybe another branch of the family has put a family tree together. Like fishing we shall await to see what if anything bites.
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Just one last idea ~
Do you have a list of Patrick's children in chronological order ?
Tara
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James Murphy of Clonguiffin named his first son James which indicates that his father was called James too.
This ties in nicely was a James Murphy of Clonguiffin on GV.
http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/meath/rathcore.htm
Tara
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Try contacting the GAA Club to see can they put you in touch with the Clonguiffin Murphy's.
They are great for knowing the locals.
I had a great success story doing this for a family member.
http://meath.gaa.ie/club-details/longwood/
Tara
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Rathcore doesn't appear to be well covered.
http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0965
Could explain the Murphy / Keefe marriage showing up just over the border !
Enfield is one of those confusing areas near too many borders :)
Tara
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Having problems attaching a screen shot of Patrick's family to here so will do tomorrow when on laptop. Here is a link to it on ancestry if that's allowed. No James as sons from what we have found so far mind.
http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/79857350/person/30407783881
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I don't have a sub to there so can't see it but sure don't worry.
Look, naming patterns are a great starting point but aren't a hard and fast rule, especially if families fell out.
Anyway, I'm off to my leaba.
I shall have another poke about tomorrow.
Oh, and let me know if you need any help on your other thread.
I'm a glutton for punishment ;D
Tara
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Just posting this Tara before I head out to work, cheers.
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Have you Patrick Murphy's marriage cert as it should give his father's name. I looked for a marriage of
James and Kate (Catherine) around 1872 but only found a church marriage that might be a possibility but its in Killucan Westmeath not Meath. Posting here as it may be relevant eventually.
Church Marriage Record
Date of Marriage: 10-Feb-1873
Parish / District: KILLUCAN County: Co. Westmeath
Husband Wife
Name: James Murphy Kathleen Kieffe
Address: Not Recorded Not Recorded
Denomination: Roman Catholic Roman Catholic
Occupation: Not Recorded Not Recorded
Age: Not Recorded Not Recorded
Status: Bachelor (Previously unmarried) Spinster (Previously unmarried)
Husband's Father Wife's Father
Name: Not Recorded Murphy Not Recorded Kieffe
Husband's Mother Wife's Mother
Name: Not Recorded Not Recorded
annclare
Added found a civil marriage in the index for Catherine Keeffe Year 1873 Registration district Mullingar Quarter 1 volume 3 Page 330 and a James Murphy has the same registration details so it is possibly the correct marriage. Getting a copy will confirm James' father's name and may match info from Patrick's marriage cert.
annclare
That is quite likely the marriage we are looking for Ann, thanks. Will get the cert next time I am in Dublin and see if James's father's name is the same as the birth entry we found for who we think is him in Summerhill.
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Here is the mass card mentioned in the opening post. Also attached are the baptisms for James in Summerhill on 17 February 1832 (hopefully the same one who married Kate Keeffe) and Patrick in Summerhill on 16 October 1834. It gives their home as Ballinjohn, which we can't seem to find, could this be present day Johnstown?
Hopefully when we get the marriage cert for James and Kate Keeffe we can establish if the James Murphy senior in the baptism entry is the same man as the father on the cert. This would give us a direct link from the mass card of Kate Murphy nee Keeffe back to a James Murphy who had two sons, James and Patrick (maybe the one we are looking for)....or maybe not. ???
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Such a shame that there's no way to know what Patrick's parent's names were :'(
Tara
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Such a shame that there's no way to know what Patrick's parent's names were :'(
Tara
Yea the only hope at the moment is if we can find his marriage to Ellen Broe but even then there is no guarantee the parents names will be given.
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Have you gone through all the churches on nli.ie ?
Tara
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Have you gone through all the churches on nli.ie ?
Tara
I have covered the dates we feel they got married in most of the registers in Wicklow and also recently the ones around Enfield. As I said before Broe is a common name in west Wicklow and so we felt the marriage may have been there initially. But we will spread our search and who knows... For example on another branch of our family there is a marriage in St Andrews, Dublin back in the 1860s even though both participants were from the Kilcoole area of Wicklow and we can't figure out why they did it in Dublin yet.
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. . . and if the theory of Patrick originally being from Meath pans out sure the marriage could be anywhere from the Midlands technically.
Our ancestors sure like keeping us on our toes ;D
Tara
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. . . and if the theory of Patrick originally being from Meath pans out sure the marriage could be anywhere from the Midlands technically.
Our ancestors sure like keeping us on our toes ;D
Tara
They sure do, think I need to take a week off work lol.
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There is a Patrick Murphy and Ellen Kehoe (kinda sounds like Broe) writing isn't great so it's possibly them.
It's 1861 and it says they were living in Talbotstown, which you mentioned.
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634564#page/111/mode/1up
Tara
Have left this search for a while and came back to it with a fresh mind in the last few days. While no parents names are given for this marriage, we have found a Patrick Murphy born in Talbotstown in 1831, which would make him the same age as our Patrick on his mass card, which is 64 in 1896. Also this Patrick's parents are given as Michael and Rose, and his brother is a Daniel.
Patrick Murphy and Ellen Broe named their first son Michael, address Talbotstown, born 1862, and their first daughter Rosanna. Their third son was named Daniel. All would appear to tie in nicely if we substitute Kehoe for Broe in the marriage record and presume that this Patrick Murphy, Talbotstown born in 1831 is the same person whose address is Talbotstown in the marriage record to Ellen Kehoe.
Perhaps whoever filled in the entry misheard Broe and inserted Kehoe?