RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: minniehaha on Wednesday 07 October 15 19:37 BST (UK)
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Last night I came across this (one) addition to Papers Past. I don't recall seeing any notice about it so forgive me if I'm behind time on this..........
Latest additions to Papers Past (September 2015):
Evening Star (1865-1920)
Although in publication at some of the same time as 'The Otago Witness' and 'The Otago Daily times', I have already found new information. One example being a more comprehensive obituary about an ancestor, tying in details which I thought concerned my man, and this article proved them.
A big thank you to the Papers Past team............
Minniehaha.
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Hi Minniehaha,
Until it appeared recently on Papers Past I had no idea there was yet another Otago newspaper, and I've also made lots of new discoveries.
The Evening Star's reporting of criminal matters was very comprehensive. They even made a habit of italicizing the names of the miscreants making it very easy to pick out details from a long article.
Spades
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I was not aware of its existence either. And yes, it gets a big tick from me.
Were we notified about it via Rootschat, or did I just miss this??
Minniehaha.
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No. :) I know Papers Past often do post an update here which is always very welcome, but this was a surprise.
Spades
p.s. I'd still like to see the New Zealand Police Gazettes appear one day!
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I forgot to say that RootsChat tries to keep topic pages to no more than twenty pages, so someone will have to start "Papers Past" Updates Part IV once Part III hits the ceiling. ;) ;)
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Thanks for being on the ball Minnie :D I didn't see anything about in via my emails, so perhaps the eagled eye folks weren't aware either ;D
Cheers
KHP
Edited: Just seen the email with the update ... must have sent that one to SPAM for some reason :-\
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Hi folks, sorry for the lack of update on the Evening Star! We've been very busy working on the next incarnation of the Papers Past website, I've been rather immersed and totally forgot to let you all know about the Evening Star, please accept my apologies.
Our next release might be before or after the new site goes live, I'll try and keep you posted next time ;)
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In the PapersPast world, which paper would most likely report marriages that occurred in Palmerston North?
I dont see any specific PN papers in the listings.
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Try this region:
newspapers available for: Manawatu-Wanganui (7)
Feilding Star (Manawatu-Wanganui, 1882-1920)
Horowhenua Chronicle (Manawatu-Wanganui, 1910-1920)
Manawatu Herald (Manawatu-Wanganui, 1878-1900)
Manawatu Standard (Manawatu-Wanganui, 1883-1920)
Manawatu Times (Manawatu-Wanganui, 1877-1920)
Wanganui Chronicle (Manawatu-Wanganui, 1874-1919)
Wanganui Herald (Manawatu-Wanganui, 1867-1920)
Minniehaha.
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Thanks Minniehaha, I was hoping I could search papers by region but I see that feature must still be coming.
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You can search a number of papers at the same time by selecting and holding down the Control key.......
Minniehaha.
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You can search a number of papers at the same time by selecting and holding down the Control key.......
Minniehaha.
Thanks, that is what I ended up doing.
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Thanks Minniehaha, I was hoping I could search papers by region but I see that feature must still be coming.
I have been using a Search by Region feature for ummm..... years ..... Perhaps this link will help or perhaps it is a feature that is only available for those searching Papers Past from outside of NZ.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=CL3&e=-------10--1----0--
Cheers, JM
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Hello,
One of the reasons why I find PapersPast the most user friendly site for newspaper research. Have not used the UK and Au ones as much, but have done hundreds of hours of research on PP, from the comfort of my office chair.
Love their options of up to 100 results listings per page, plus the date sort option as opposed to "best match". Also; ease of switching between text recognition and actual print views; plus ease of copy and pasting of that print which is of interest from a long column of captured print.
Beats the hours of travelling to, and then hours spent finding your way around a new to you archive, be it a Family History one, University, Museum, Government Department or civil Library etc as I did with my research in he late 70's and 1980's. My last such experience being 12 days though the Autumn of 2009 at MOTAT researching their archive of magazines, which I doubt will ever get on line.
Go the PaspersPast team.
Keep up your excellent work.
- Alan.
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I agree, Alan
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The Evening Star was showing as a new title on Papers Past Home page for a little while.
Thanks Papers Past Team I too have found new material
What I often want to do is to search all the papers in one Province or region and I have been laboriously picking out Otago & Southland Papers I hope that facility may come soon !!
Signal
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I have been using a Search by Region feature for ummm..... years ..... Perhaps this link will help or perhaps it is a feature that is only available for those searching Papers Past from outside of NZ.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=CL3&e=-------10--1----0--
Cheers, JM
But I cant select multiple titles from that Regional listing.
Signal
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I have been using a Search by Region feature for ummm..... years ..... Perhaps this link will help or perhaps it is a feature that is only available for those searching Papers Past from outside of NZ.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=CL3&e=-------10--1----0--
Cheers, JM
But I cant select multiple titles from that Regional listing.
Signal
Quite right there Signal, this is something we're fixing for the next version of the site. In the meantime, the only way to search multiple specific titles is to go to the search interface -
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=q&e=-------10--1----0--
- and from the drop-down list of newspaper titles, click the titles you want to search while holding down the CTRL key.
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Thanks - keep up the good work
Signal
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To keep us occupied over the holidays........
Latest additions to Papers Past (December 2015):
Aotearoa : he Nupepa ma nga Tangata Maori (1892)
Aotearoa, or the Maori Recorder (1861-1862)
Cromwell Argus (1869-1920)
Dunstan Times (1866-1948)
Kopara (1913-1921)
Lake County Mail (1947-1948)
Lake County Press (1872-1928)
Lake Wakatip Mail (1921-1947)
Maori Record : a journal devoted to the advancement of the Maori people (1904-1907)
Mt Benger Mail (1921-1941)
Pipiwharauroa (1898-1913)
Press (1936-1945)
Star (1918-1920)
Toa Takitini (1921-1932)
A big thank you to the team and a happy festive season to all.
Minniehaha.
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Thanks Minnie, Santa decided to deliver our reading material early :D
Merry xmas to PP and team, and look forward to the New Years goodies.
Cheers
KHP
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Cool one, more reading to do :D
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Hi folks! We've just made a beta version of an updated Papers Past site publicly available.
It puts in place some of the technologies and processes we need to deliver new content, new content types, and bring new features to the service. This beta is a stepping stone that can potentially get us to the promised land of text corrections, but please note that we haven't enabled this in the beta.
We welcome any and all feedback you may have, either here or via the rather fancy feedback tool we're using on the new site.
Enjoy!
https://beta.paperspast.natlib.govt.nz (https://beta.paperspast.natlib.govt.nz)
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Oh wow,thank you,off for a look,
Cheers Janette
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Thanks PP. I am sure it will be wonderful, off to have a gander.
Cheers
KHP
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Thank you! Me too!
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Hi folks, just a quick update.
Beta seems to be mostly working, although search term highlighting is sometimes intermittent, so we're investigating that.
We've been getting some very useful feedback, but some people have been asking us questions but then not leaving any contact details! So, here are a few quick answers to some things you might have noticed or not spotted, that have come up a few times in feedback on the new site.
Search Previews:
Just above your lists of search results, to the right, is the "Show preview" button. I recommend using this unless you have a slow connection.
Highlighting:
This works great for some people, not at all for other people, and intermittently for some people...sigh. We're working on it, we might have an updated version of this on the site by the middle of next week (that's my guesstimate).
Copyright:
Some feedback querying why some items (eg 1900's newspaper articles) are (probably) out of copyright, but still have copyright statements - correct, this is not an error. Sometimes those items from eg 1901 may still be covered by someone's copyright, hence a statement that provides some guidance on use is relevant.
Results consisting of just a headline:
Yup, we have lots of this on the current Papers Past site as well as the beta - in these cases, use the link near the top of the page labelled "Page 2" (or "Page 4", or whatever the page happens to be) to get a view of the arrangement of the whole page, this will let you find the text associated with the headline and click on it.
That's all for now - if any of you good folks have thoughts/tips/feedback, let me know!
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Hooray, I can now search all papers for a region without ctrl-clicking!
I love it.
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Hi folks - it's new content time. We added two new titles and extended the date ranges of three other newspapers today -
New:
Woodville Examiner 1883-1920
Hawkes Bay Times 1869-1874
Additional content:
Otago Daily Times up to 1930
Waikato Argus (collection extended back to cover 1896-1904, in addition to the pre-existing 1905-1914 issues)
Bay of Plenty Times (added 1872-1875, thanks to NZSG and the Bay Trust - and also 1921-1930, thanks to Tauranga City Libraries)
Enjoy!
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Oh joy! The Otago Daily Times.......
Thank you!!!
Minniehaha.
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Aren't these surprises wonderful :D Head down etc ;D
Thank you!
Cheers
KHP
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Wonderful ... thanks PapersPast. :)
~ Lu
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Have just found, in the latest release of the "Woodville Examiner", a very graphic report of "The Inquest" into the suicide of a GG Uncle. I am sure it wouldn't be allowed to be published in todays papers!
The information has opened up another line of enquiry into this family. So I add my thanks to the people at PapersPast for making these precious resources available to us all and best of all for FREE.
HeatherR
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Rest assured I'm sharing all these kind words with the rest of the PP team at our next team meeting :)
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I have been using both the old and the beta sites in the past few weeks to compare them and I much prefer the beta site. The sooner it's the live site the better.
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Hi Everyone,
Can I ask those who have used the Beta site what they find an improvement over the current site.
For me, I like the page presentation and the selection parameters section, especially facility to narrow the date range by using the slider bar.
I love the fuzzy thinking where the site then automatically selects publications searchable within the range and excludes others.
I do prefer the current site which gives you the newspaper title and date (reading date, month, year) page number at the top of the page, excellent for cut and paste of citations. The Beta site is harder and seems to be 'month, date, year'.
For the sake of established use and continuity could that be changed, please, Papers Past?
Spades
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Spades - no problem. We've gotten similar feedback from people around the title/date text and we've already discussed changing the approach to that, so it's very much on our radar.
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Thank you PP for all the updates you give us.
Keep up the great work you all do
Newbe
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Hi Everyone,
Can I ask those who have used the Beta site what they find an improvement over the current site.
For me, I like the page presentation and the selection parameters section, especially facility to narrow the date range by using the slider bar.
I love the fuzzy thinking where the site then automatically selects publications searchable within the range and excludes others.
I do prefer the current site which gives you the newspaper title and date (reading date, month, year) page number at the top of the page, excellent for cut and paste of citations. The Beta site is harder and seems to be 'month, date, year'.
For the sake of established use and continuity could that be changed, please, Papers Past?
Spades
Hi Spades - quick question; whereabouts exactly are you seeing the month/date/year date structures popping up?
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Hi,
Apology offered! The order is unchanged :-[ :-[. Wonder where I got that from. ::)
But to clarify my other comments, on the current format page I see the following in a green bar taken from a sample page:
WOMEN'S CORNER
Press, Volume LIX, Issue 17668, 22 January 1923, Page 2
This text is not formatted for a field; hence easy to copy and paste as a citation.
On the Beta version of the same page I see this text, formatted into fields:
Newspapers Press 22 January 1923 Page 2 This article
The title of the article, WOMEN'S CORNER appears to the right of the article image.
Spades
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No worries - it looks like on the browse by title page, the date slider has a text field you can type dates in, and it uses a YYYY-MM-DD format - could that be the thing you were thinking of?
In terms of that nicely copyable text, I've added your comments into our feedback dashboard - as I mentioned, you're not the only person to bring this up!
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Hello PP
What proportion of the newspapers is on the beta site?
Charlie
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Hi Charlie - nearly all of them except for the stuff we added a couple of weeks ago (on the previous page of this thread). We're still in the process of developing a content release process for the new site, so that stuff will be appearing on the new site in the not-too-distant future.
We've taken some titles from the old site which were technically periodicals (like Kai Tiaki) and placed them in the magazines and journals section of the new site, which is why the overall list of newspaper titles looks smaller than in the old site.
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Many thanks to Minniehaha who found an article in the Grey River Argus reporting the death in 1906 of a man I've been hunting for over a decade.
And thanks again to the Papers Past team for such providing such a useful resource.
Spades
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The happy dance was it Spades? 8) Well done Minnie, perhaps we should get you to find things for us, when we can't ;D
Cheers
KHP
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Hi KHP,
Not quite a dance, I was sitting down. But certainly stunned mullet, 'Oh WOW' and then a crane to get my jaw back off the floor. ;D ;D 8)
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Thanks for the thanks Spades. Just needed another pair of fresh (Specsavers) eyes on the job. ;D ;D
Minniehaha.
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Is anyone else experiencing this on the Beta version of Papers Past, where your search results are not high-lighted in the text at all?
Spades
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Hi Spades, you're not alone, it is impacting some people. Sorry for the hassle.
We've tried a few different approaches for delivering the highlighting, and we'll be trying another soon. It looks like high latency could be a factor, but we don't yet understand why it has this side-effect on some people. The highlighting may still appear in the computer-generated text view.
You might see a different result by running off a mobile connection, depending on whether it's lower latency than your home internet connection. It's worth a look if you have this option available, I'd be interested to know what you see if you're able to try this on a new-ish smartphone.
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Hi Papers Past,
Thanks for responding. Good to know it's not just me and that you're aware of it. I'm experiencing this on a PC.
Spades
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I am loving the new beta version of Papers Past and that if there is an article with highlighted word, the fact that I can just click on the light bulb to turn it off is brilliant as I hate these hightlighted words in screen prints, thanks
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Hi folks,
I've been away for a few weeks on the sunny West Island (locals call it Australia).
I just thought I'd let you know that there's a large bunch of new content available - some newspapers, some magazines. The new stuff is available on the new beta site only, not the current site.
The new stuff is here - https://beta.paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers (https://beta.paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers)
...and here - https://beta.paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/periodicals (https://beta.paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/periodicals)
Enjoy!
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Hope you enjoyed your break away :D
Thanks for the goodies, something to look into after feeding him indoors ;D
Cheers
KHP
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Hi folks - we've got a Christmas content present lined up for you. We originally had this planned for last month but there was a slight earthquake situation to attend to, so our November release has become a Xmas release. We're sorry for the delay, but we hope you have some time to enjoy a quiet search over the holiday period.
• Ashburton Guardian (1879-1886)
• Horowhenua Chronicle/Levin Chronicle (1921-1930)
• Manawatu Herald (1902-1920)
• Mareikura (1911-1913)
• Matuhi (1903-1906)
• Northern Advocate (1926-1930)
• Otago Witness (1910-1915)
• Samoanische Zeitung/Samoa Times (1921-1930)
• Sun (July 1919)
• Taranaki Herald (1910-1920)
All the best from myself and the rest of the PP team :)
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.... that's the best Christmas present. :)
Christmas Greetings to all the team at PapersPast ... and many thanks for all the effort you put in to bringing us this wonderful content. :)
~ Lu
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A nice wee present to browse through. :)
Hope the PP team have a Happy Christmas :) Thank you for your work throughout the year.
Cheers
KHP
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Whoops...I MEANT TO SAY...this will be available early next week on Tuesday/Wednesday.
I was just too keen to post the message to proofread!
Hi folks - we've got a Christmas content present lined up for you. We originally had this planned for last month but there was a slight earthquake situation to attend to, so our November release has become a Xmas release. We're sorry for the delay, but we hope you have some time to enjoy a quiet search over the holiday period.
• Ashburton Guardian (1879-1886)
• Horowhenua Chronicle/Levin Chronicle (1921-1930)
• Manawatu Herald (1902-1920)
• Mareikura (1911-1913)
• Matuhi (1903-1906)
• Northern Advocate (1926-1930)
• Otago Witness (1910-1915)
• Samoanische Zeitung/Samoa Times (1921-1930)
• Sun (July 1919)
• Taranaki Herald (1910-1920)
All the best from myself and the rest of the PP team :)
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Thanks for a wonderful Xmas present. :)
Best wishes to all at Papers Past. Hope you all have a great Xmas and New Year :) :) 8)
Spades
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"Slight earthquake situation". :D
Keep safe, and thanks for a fabulous service.
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A great Service! Thank you and have a Happy and Healthy Christmas! :) :) :) 🎄🎄🌺
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Hi folks, we haven't updated the "what's new" text on the front page yet, but, the new content is now live.
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Thank a million, Papers Past Team! :) :)
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Hi folks, we're looking to make our next batch of papers available online in the middle of next week. It's a collaborative release so I may need to be sparing with details for now until we get our comms all checked off. BUT, that said, I can tell you it will contain a good number of issues of Lyttelton Times, among other titles, which should have some rather meaty passenger lists results available.
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Wonderful! And thank you...... :) :)
Minniehaha.
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Thanks PapersPast. :)
Especially looking forward to the "Lyttelton Times" content. ;)
~ Lu
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Great news, thanks PP :)
Cheers
KHP
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Hi folks, the new content is live now - Hurrah!
Latest additions to Newspapers (February 2017):
Bay of Plenty Times (1931-1940)
Cromwell Argus (1876-1878, 1921-1948)
Globe (1874-1882)
Hawke's Bay Times (1861-1868)
Horowhenua Chronicle (1931-1939)
Lyttelton Times (Apr 1869-1889)
New Zealand Times (1874-1920)
Northern Advocate (1931-1935)
Otago Witness (1916-1920)
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Love it,
Rootschatters getting personal adverts/updates from Papers Past ;D
Thanks for the good work,
Annie
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Love it,
Rootschatters getting personal adverts/updates from Papers Past ;D
Thanks for the good work,
Annie
You're welcome Annie :)
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Thanks PP ....no doubt there will be oohs and aahs when folks stumble on something ;D
The work you all do is much appreciated.
Cheers
KHP
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:) :) :) :) :) :)
Minniehaha.
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Thanks PP ....no doubt there will be oohs and aahs when folks stumble on something ;D
The work you all do is much appreciated.
Cheers
KHP
Maybe it's the post-content-release glow talking, but something that always makes us proud is seeing people talking about cool new stuff they've found through the site - quite often I'll copy a few online comments from here and there and share them with the team. It puts a spring in our step. We really appreciate that this community cares about what we do.
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No doubt PP is a fantastic resource.
Does anyone know how to do a search with exclusions?
I would like to search "Hawkes" but not get results with "Hawkes Bay".
I am only searching the 2 Thames papers and of the 6994 results I suspect many are for "Hawkes Bay".
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No doubt PP is a fantastic resource.
Does anyone know how to do a search with exclusions?
I would like to search "Hawkes" but not get results with "Hawkes Bay".
I am only searching the 2 Thames papers and of the 6994 results I suspect many are for "Hawkes Bay".
Hi Spud, no problem, easy. Try this, copy the text between the curly brackets exactly:
{hawkes -" bay "}
It looks like this gives about 60,000 results with minimal "Hawkes Bay" content.
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No doubt PP is a fantastic resource.
Does anyone know how to do a search with exclusions?
I would like to search "Hawkes" but not get results with "Hawkes Bay".
I am only searching the 2 Thames papers and of the 6994 results I suspect many are for "Hawkes Bay".
Hi Spud, no problem, easy. Try this, copy the text between the curly brackets exactly:
{hawkes -" bay "}
It looks like this gives about 60,000 results with minimal "Hawkes Bay" content.
Thanks, I get the gist of how that works. Not 60,000, but down to a slightly more manageable 5877!
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Know that feeling.
Recent Corromandel research in the 1920's ran into the VERY regular Shipping and mail schedules across all the titles I was searching. Would have loved to have excluded them, from my classified's copy research. The joys of research, but from the comfort of my home, NOT the hours spent in Libraries of yesteryear research, so not complaining.
- Alan.
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Know that feeling.
Recent Corromandel research in the 1920's ran into the VERY regular Shipping and mail schedules across all the titles I was searching. Would have loved to have excluded them, from my classified's copy research. The joys of research, but from the comfort of my home, NOT the hours spent in Libraries of yesteryear research, so not complaining.
- Alan.
Hi Alan - if you're searching as opposed to browsing page-to-page, judicious use of the "-" operator may help you out in those situations. I'm here to help if you ever want tips, just let me know.
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Thank you Papers Past.
The exercise I have just done these last few wet days, was looking into the Re-hab settlement of Hikuai, on the Corromandel. In the end I had collected well over 100 newspaper clippings [or computer screen parts thereof] which I notated with source details.
For a start I did a newspaper search using:-
Hikuai and another identifier word [ballot – settlement- lease etc] (all words)
Confined to a search period 1920 – 1930 inclusive.
Editorial – advertising – pictorial.
And either “All available newspapers” OR some times restricted to local region prints.
Resulting search hits were relatively small, and I set results for date order and 100 per page. This gave me my foundation research.
Then I moved on to a more comprehensive search using only:-
Hikuai
1920 – 1930 inclusive.
Editorial – advertising – pictorial.
Selecting only Auckland, Waikato & BOP Regions print. [Waikato Times online does not extend far into this period. Plus the NZ Truth.
Hits for the period were only some 1100 BUT a large proportion in the mid 1920’s were the near daily shipping column adverts in both the NZH and the AS. Then from about 1928 Overseas Mail or just Mail; classified mail schedule’s took over. If I attempted to exclude these repetitive hits from the PapersPast selection, I was/am concerned I could be missing that odd small classified slipped into that classified’s column. Upon first reading I chose to ignore one such small classified advert, but now that I would like a copy of it [as with further knowledge it has some relevance to my research] I am yet to rediscover it.
The automated optical reading can be a bit arbitrary, as to where it chooses to make the cut, even where the published type, under scrutiny, is crisp and clear.
Hence my venting a little frustration at my incompetence, when I saw the above post. But as hopefully implied, I am ever so grateful to the National Library and it’s PapersPast service direct to my own home. Especially so when I think back to former days, and spending them in libraries, up and down the country, seeking info about our pioneering history.
Regards,
Alan.
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Hi folks! We have some new stuff for you, live on the site now we have:
Manawatu Times (1924-1928)
Patea Mail (1921-1941)
Pelorus Guardian and Miners' Advocate (1911-1919)
Rangitikei Advocate and Manawatu Argus (1907-1920)
Southern Cross (1893-1908)
Waihi Daily Telegraph (1924-1935)
Western Star (1873-1920)
The new titles are Southern Cross, Waihi Daily Telegraph, and Western Star - the other titles are further extensions of existing titles. The Patea Mail addition looks rather substantial.
Have fun -
The Papers Past team
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Great,thanks team
Off to have a look ;D ;D
Cheers Janette
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Fantastic, thank you! 8)
Minniehaha.
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Thank you!
Cheers
KHP
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Wonderful, Team PapersPast. Thanks. :)
~ Lu
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Hi folks - we're still working through the impact of the network updates over the weekend, I thought it would be sensible to share a bit of an update with yourselves:
1 - newspaper material is all available (if it's not for you, please let me know!)
2 - most magazines & journals material is ok, except for a couple of titles
3 - letters & diaries is impacted
4 - parliamentary papers material is ok
So, under some circumstances, you might see a "something went wrong" message, unless you stick to newspapers or parliamentary papers. Cleverer people than I are working into the night hours to solve the issue. I'll keep you all posted!
Cheers
Emerson
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Hi Emerson,
Since the weekend I've been getting 'Sorry, something went wrong' when I try to change the results of a search from 'best match' or the items from '10'.
I've just tried again and it's still happening.
Spades
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Hi Spades, I think I know what that might be. It's at our end, and I'll need to wrangle smarter people than me, but we'll try to get the fix in place later in the day.
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Thanks Emerson, much appreciated.
Spades
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I'm still having problems with the site.
Only if I first select to search by something other than 'Best Match' can I change the results from the default '10' to a different number.
Spades
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Hi Spades, no problem - a few people have reported this and it relates to the papers past session cookie stored in your browser. The fix is to go to close all open Papers Past tabs in your browser, then go into the cookies in your browser, search for the PP cookies and delete the one labelled _paperspast_session.
This is where search preferences are stored, so after you delete it, the issue will (hopefully) go away and the cookie will re-create itself when you go back into the site. It might also be an idea to not go back in at first via an old bookmark or saved link, just go in via the homepage - https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz (https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz). That should do the trick.
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I'd just add for everyone's benefit that I'm continuing testing this, just to make sure I'm not missing anything, so feel free to keep me posted if you find a way to consistently reproduce the issue - this goes for anyone else on rootschat too of course! Make sure to try the steps with the session cookie listed above first, just in case.
Email me directly via the details on the PP contact page (https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/contact (https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/contact)) or just reply in this thread, or PM me, and I'll respond as soon as I can.
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Hi folks, just a general update - we've had some undesirable experiences with (presumably) bots recently, which has made the site pretty slow at times over the last few weekends. I'm really sorry about this. We're putting some initial counter-measures in place over the coming days, because (good news now) we've got a content release coming up very soon, and obviously we'd like you all to be able to search the heck out of it.
It'll contain:
Greymouth Evening Star (1901-1920)
Opunake Times (1894-1949)
Stratford Evening Post (1911-1936)
Taihape Daily Times (1914-1920)
I'll give you an update when we close in on the release.
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Thank you very much for the info on the coming releases. Can't wait.
Regards Crowsfeet
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Hi,
There seems to be a problem with the website,all searches are come up with no answers
Cheers Janette
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Mmmm, I have found that too............ ???
Minniehaha.
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Yes no show on the paperspast website, some are saying they can do searches from DigitalNZ but hard to find right items. Hope its fixed soon.
Bye
Althea
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Sorry folks, things got rough over the weekend. I'll keep you posted.
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An email from Emerson today
I'm really sorry about this, we currently have an issue with some very abnormal external requests coming in to the site. They appear malicious, and we're trying to deal with them. We have no support staff available over weekends and this is when these attacks seem to ramp up.
The site is working at the moment and we have people who can help us respond during working hours. We've got people looking at the data from over the weekend and we are making a few adjustments. Please feel free to disseminate this in any genealogy forums you follow.
Once again, please accept my apologies.
Emerson
Cheers Janette
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Thanks Janette!
We've done a few things today, we'll see how we go overnight.
Em
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Hi folks, very quick update for you - we've pushed some fixes to the site, to prevent that bot situation getting out of hand.
If you have any problems searching, just use an up to date version of Chrome or Firefox and you'll be fine. I'll check in again later :-)
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Alrighty, update time.
Good news, we've got the load situation sorted, and we're back on track for our content release.
We need to fix a bug impacting searches that either start with quotation marks or have non-letter/number characters at the start, we'll get this sorted very soon. The workaround is quite simple - just switch the order of the terms around, for example, instead of "john wilson" +horse, search for:
horse "john wilson"
The principle is to just make sure the first three characters of your search start with letters or numbers. You can also just duplicate one of the words of the phrase and put that at the start as a quick fix, eg:
wilson "john wilson"
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In essence, we need to iron some kinks out of our fixes, but we're looking good.
Next up, our content release!
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Hello,
Being permanently on trainer wheels, I am not quite up with the play here but have just tried to do a search:
t. h. hammond. Nothing comes up although I know from past experience there are many references on Papers Past. Have tried "t. h." hammond & "t. h. hammond", still a nil result.
Is there a 'kink' here or is it me?
Minniehaha.
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Don't use the dots after the initials
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How about that! Perfect. Thank you.... :)
Minniehaha.
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It doesn't pay to be "dotty" these days.
Alan
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It doesn't pay to be "dotty" these days.
Alan
I'll have you know that my sister is known as "dotty" :P :P ;D ;D ;D
Cheers Janette
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Hi folks,
Good news, it's new content time! Yesterday we added the following:
Greymouth Evening Star (1901-1920)
Opunake Times (1894-1949)
Stratford Evening Post (1911-1936)
Taihape Daily Times (1914-1920)
More good news, we got rid of the bug that stopped searches from beginning with quotation marks or including full-stops within the first few characters!
We still have some catch-ups to do (for example, if you use preview images, it's nicer to turn them on at the START of a search session, otherwise you will lose some preferences), and we've got a new (much faster) imageserver that could yet do with a few tweaks - but things are feeling better again.
There's a chance that some lingering search issues could just be old versions of cookies stored in people's browsers, so if you see any funniness, a great first step is to just delete the Papers Past cookies from your browser, and then revisit the site to rebuild them. If in doubt, just email me on paperspast[at]natlib.govt.nz or message me here and I'll help :)
Moderator Comment: e-mail edited, to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please replace [-- at --] with @
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Hi Emerson,
Thanks very much to you and all the Papers Past team for the new content and bug eradication.
Would you mind explaining how to delete cookies, please? I for one have no idea.
Spades
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Hi Spades!
It depends on which browser you use. With Firefox, press "alt" to get the menu at the top, then choose tools --> options --> privacy --> remove individual cookies. Type in the address of the site with the cookie you want to remove, it will show a list, and either remove all or remove a selected one. The session cookie should have "session" mentioned somewhere in its description.
if you use Chrome, go to chrome://settings/content/cookies (http://chrome://settings/content/cookies), then search for the paperspast.natlib.govt.nz cookies and remove the ones you want.
There are similar steps for Safari, Edge, or IE, but unfortunately don't have those installed! In those cases, try this article for a quick guide - https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/how-to-delete-cookies-in-chrome-firefox-safari-and-ie/ (https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/how-to-delete-cookies-in-chrome-firefox-safari-and-ie/)
With PP, you're fine to remove all PP cookies or to just remove a specific one. The key thing is to make sure that at least the session cookie gets deleted. That's the important bit. If you get stuck, just give me a yell!
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p.s. I'd still like to see the New Zealand Police Gazettes appear one day!
That would be awesome!
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you can see the Police Gazettes on Archives website, type in New Zealand Police Gazette and then click on the 909 pages one, then you can either sort by year or go to page 7 and half way down is the start of the Digitised ones
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Thanks Crab!
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lol I haven't been called that for a long time lol
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Hi folks, we're still working through a few wrinkles here and there, but there's some new content up on the site now. This time, not newspapers - instead, the new stuff is the Transactions of the Royal Society publications - scientific journals essentially.
I'm not expecting that these will set the genealogical world alight, but these titles are an interesting case for us, they contain greyscale scans and full-colour pdf downloads, and these are improvements we'd like bring to other future titles on Papers Past because it will make images look better.
The other new addition is Te Reo ote Hokowhitu-a-tu, a magazine for the veterans of the Maori Pioneer Battalion - only three issues of this were ever published so it's not a large corpus, but on the plus side it means all issues are now searchable on PP.
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Paper Past not working, any body having trouble ?
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Hi KT,
Yes. Website is down.
Be patient, it'll be back sooner or later, it's Papers Past!
Spades
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Thanks Spades
Was just checking in case it was my laptop.
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Hi folks, sorry about that, there was an upstream problem above Papers Past - some of you may have noticed that other Archives and National Library web services were also unavailable for a while. Everything's been looking okay since then though :)
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Hi folks, just some minor good news, we've just patched an annoying little bug that made search results settings revert to defaults under some conditions. The search results page now behaves when you change the sorting settings, including the "preview images" function.
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Thanks. :)
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Wonderful,thank you
Cheers Janette
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Gosh, I have been remiss - I forgot to tell you all about the release we did a few weeks ago!
Hopefully you've spotted the new content already, but if you haven't, you'll see that we've extended the Bay of Plenty Times up to 1949, Northern Advocate up to 1939, Otago Daily Times up to 1942, and added the South Canterbury Times from 1879-1901.
My apologies for the delay, clearly I'm still in holiday mode :-)
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Wonderful!!!! Thank you.........
Minniehaha.
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Thanks PapersPast. :)
~ Lu
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Thank you :D
Cheers
KHP
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Thank You! 👍👍 You people do a great service!!
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Great reading. I've just sent a link through to my cousins. We hadn't realised my aunt was such an athlete. One year she was placed in the potato, sack AND three-legged races in the school sports. ETA...and the skipping race.
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Hello again folks! This is just a heads-up to let you know that tomorrow morning (about 17 hours from the time of this post) we're putting a fix on the site that will help people's search settings stick for an entire session. This means you don't have to keep resetting things like "100 results per page" or "Preview images" every time you do a new search. Hopefully this is helpful, if you spot anything amiss please don't hesitate to let me know and we'll investigate.
Cheers!
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Hi everyone,
Just an update for you. We've made changes to cookies on Papers Past in recent weeks, so if any of you are seeing funny things happen with your search sessions, delete your PP cookies from your browser and you'll be all sorted. Feel free to get hold of me if you get stuck!
Also, we've got more content coming your way in mid-April -
Evening Star (1921-1942)
Lyttelton Times (1890-1907)
Marlborough Express (1869-1872, 1879-Jun 1880)
Enjoy -
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Hello again folks! This is just a heads-up to let you know that tomorrow morning (about 17 hours from the time of this post) we're putting a fix on the site that will help people's search settings stick for an entire session. This means you don't have to keep resetting things like "100 results per page" or "Preview images" every time you do a new search. Hopefully this is helpful, if you spot anything amiss please don't hesitate to let me know and we'll investigate.
Cheers!
Hello PP.
A VERY MUCH appreciated added feature, which I had recently noted was happening.
For the last three months I've spent several hours each evening researching the history surrounding two BUSH RESERVES set aside with the first 1860's survey of Waikato County. I'm now over 300 clippings later, and up to the year 1900, and nearing the end of this partucular research, as by 1910 the bush reserves had been further subdivided, following a number of wild fires.
For this research, at each session, I had been setting my research subject, date range, press selection, AND then selecting RESULTS by date and 100 per page. Not having to reset even one option is a huge saving in my book.
With SPADES assistance accessing some ARCHIVES NZ files, also pertaining to the reserves, a facinating story has emerged detailing the life and times of this particular community, and re-defining the oral history, that has survived the past 144 years.
So a very big thank you from this researcher.
- Alan.
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...a very big thank you from this researcher.
- Alan.
You're very welcome Alan, it's great to hear the change was useful!
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On this note, just as a general heads-up for you all, we are going to be doing further tweaking to polish the search settings code in the near future - if you see any odd behaviour in your searches, either click on "clear search" and repeat, or delete the cookie, then you'll be ok again. Normal operation will resume soon :)
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Thanks for the heads up.
Last night decided the ref I had attached to a down loaded clip was in error, [wrong type font for nomimated publisher] so went back to check specific date, but it would not allow me to search for my subject and just one date in both boxes, [reverted to previous search field] so just increased the date range, and scrolled through the results.
Not that confident that I know how to clear cookies.
Allowed a daughter to use her phone to print out some forms through my computer. OK in the past, but this time when I returned to my computer, all my settings had returned to DEFAULT ones. Had to get another daughter to re-pin my frequent used programmes to my opening page.
Alan.
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Not that confident that I know how to clear cookies.
Hi Alan, I think in the current climate of data-sharing, we should all be comfortable doing a bit of privacy housekeeping, so I tracked down a fairly comprehensive guide for you - https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-delete-cookies-2617981 (https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-delete-cookies-2617981) - keep an eye out for "how to delete cookies for specific websites" :)
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Have just discovered the latest release from Papers Past.............
"Latest additions to Newspapers (April 2018)":
Evening Star (1921-1942)
Lyttelton Times (1890-1907)
Marlborough Express (1869-1872, 1879-Jun 1880)
Minniehaha.
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Hi Minniehaha,
I have merged your new topic into this existing one to keep the conversation together.
Great news, isn't it. ;D
Thanks for the new additions, Papers Past team.
Spades
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Well spotted :-D
Sorry for not jumping in here to let you all know, I've been co-ordinating a few things around the release that have kept me very busy!
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It's almost new content time again folks! Coming up in the next release we've got:
Golden Bay Argus (1883-May 1911)
Lyttelton Times (1908-1914)
Matamata Record (1918-1924)
Motueka Star (assorted 1901-1938)
North Canterbury Gazette (Aug 1932-Nov 1939)
Otaki Mail (1919-1943)
Southern Cross (1909-1920)
Waikato Independent (1921-1949)
We don't have an exact date for it yet, but I'll let you know when it's up on the site.
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Thanks PP 8) Another lucky dip we can delve into :D. Will keep some folks out of mischief for a wee while ;D
Cheers
KHP
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Brilliant! ;D Can't wait. Thank you.......
Minniehaha.
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Good to see additional titles covering the Waikato.
Very much apprerciated by this researcher.
Keep up your good works.
- Alan.
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Hi folks, the new content is live - enjoy!
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Thank you...... ;D ;D ;D ;D
Minniehaha.
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Thank you .. off for a search I go ;D ;D ;D
Cheers
KHP
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Anyone else having trouble with the Papers Past year 'slider'? Not functioning for me......
Minniehaha.
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All good now.......... ;D
Minniehaha.
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Hi folks,
Following on from our content release, we're doing some technical updates to the site, we've seen a couple of things become broken for some users (this is 100% unintentional!), but I thought this might be a good place to share some info just in case it impacts any of you.
Users of older versions of IE are going to see some issues. We're going to put some specific workarounds in place for those issues, but if you just want to use a working site in the meantime, I'd suggest using Chrome or Firefox.
I've heard of some print layout issues too, and I'm yet to dig into that but I suspect the browser version could be part of that picture too. So, if you print things and are suddenly seeing odd layouts, in the short term you could maybe try printing those pages from Chrome/Firefox, or if you just need small sections then maybe the print-screen key and cropping the part from that and printing it as an image might be convenient (This is how I usually grab stuff).
Also, don't hesitate to throw me any questions here or to the paperspast@natlib.govt.nz email address.
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Hi everyone,
I thought I'd just get a quick update out to you all, we've had a few things to catch up on:
Printing: We should have a fix in place for the print layout problem by monday, fingers crossed.
High-res image links: Sorted.
"Back to search results" link not working: This bug only impacts MS Edge and Firefox users, the fix will be one to two weeks away, and the workaround is to either use Chrome or IE, or to use the middle-mouse button shortcut to open links up as a new tab in the background when you're browsing a list of search results (assuming you're using a laptop or desktop).
Help page link: Still on it's way, it keeps getting bumped back in the to-do list by more urgent things, which is a shame. However I'm optimistic we can get this sorted in the next few weeks. In the meantime if any of you would like some info on search tricks, I can share some info here when I get back into the office on monday (I'll be offline over the weekend).
Text corrections: This is actually moving along not too badly. I'll keep you posted as things develop and I'll let you know as soon as we have something we can share.
If there's anything else I've missed, or if you'd just like to raise any great ideas you might have had, please don't be shy about getting in touch.
Have a great weekend folks!
Emerson
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Hi Emerson.
Thank you for your talk at NZSG Conference, Christchurch. As I was running around as one of the photographers, I only got to see a few minutes of your presentation. I still hope to do a write-up of the new search techniques implemented with PapersPast (Boolean, etc) for our Canterbury Branch newsletter. Will PM you in due course. Many thanks. Jim Copland
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Hi Emerson,
Thanks (belatedly, sorry) for your progress update.
Yes, I think we would all love to learn some search tricks from you if you have time. :)
Regards,
Spades
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No problem, I'll cut and paste a few search tricks and examples from my inbox :-)
I have a further update on the printing bug for you all, we've had to investigate a bit deeper on this and the fix isn't in place yet unfortunately. We keep finding browser-specific edge cases where the pages just don't arrange nicely.
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Ok here we go - I have literally raided my "sent items" emails, so my apologies if you have seen some of these examples before!
Here's PART ONE:
Firstly, note that Papers Past will ignore casing and punctuation in your search term - so searching for "Mrs J. Smith" is exactly the same as searching for "mrs j smith".
Always keep in mind that the site is trying to find matches for the terms you enter, not for the subject you're looking for, it's your job as a researcher to think of how David James Richardson would have had his name written in a newspaper, and construct your search accordingly - ie, perhaps search instead for "Mr Richardson", or "D Richardson". If you search for a persons full name, you will only see the small pool of articles that happen to use all of those terms - you'll miss out on the "Mr D Richardson" results, for example.
On to the search tricks - boolean operators only apply when you’re using the “All of these words” option. All of the examples in the bullet-points below are exactly correct syntax, so take note of where spaces do and don't appear.
OR: this operator will give you search results for A OR B - nice and simple.
NOT: This will give you results that include a term, but only if they exclude another specific term.
AND: This will give you results for a term only if they include another specific term.
- halswell +born
- hawera +fire
EXACT PHRASE: This gives you results for an exact arrangement of words. Obviously, this is only useful if you have multiple words inside the speechmarks.
All of these tricks can be combined together as needed, for example:
- cavendish +mrs -"good cavendish"
(this term would give you results that include the name Cavendish, the term "Mrs", but not if the result includes the phrase "Good Cavendish" which appeared in lots of advertisements)
- thomson -thompson +detective +accident
To be continued...
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PART TWO:
Fuzzy search tricks: This deals with scenarios where one or more letters could vary - this is very handy when the information you're looking for might have poor image quality, or words/letter may be hard to correctly recognise or be inconsistently spelt. Note however that fuzzy searches don’t invoke the highlighting feature on the site.
(fuzzy search for a term where any one character can mismatch)
(same, but two characters can mismatch)
- * = multi-character wildcard
- ? = single-character wildcard
Eg 1: jones~1 (this will give you matches for “Jones” even when the OCR has mis-recognised 1 letter, for example “johes”)
Eg 2: Hartstone~2 (matches for when any two letters might not be identical)
Eg 3: auck?and (matches where the ? can be any one letter)
Eg 4: auckl* (matches where auckl can be followed by any number of letters)
A cool trick with this is that searching for fuzzy results for a term and using NOT to remove exact character matches for the canonical term gives you a list of results containing only OCR or spelling variations for the term. This can be handy when a name first appeared in a country and may have initially had numerous spelling variations.
Eg 5: puhirake~2 –puhirake
Eg 6: aluminium~2 OR aluminum~2
Weighting operators: ^x assign x more weighting to relevance score in the ranking of a term in your search results.
This is really handy when you need to customise how results for two or more words are sorted, but sort by date or some other sorting doesn't cover what you need.
Grouping: Two techniques here, (parentheses), or “term1 term2”~x: Note the slightly different use of the tilde here than in the “fuzzy search tricks” section above: if you invoke it after a group of words in speechmarks, it expresses an n-gram length for word strings up to that length containing those terms in any order
This gives results when “Biscuit” and “Barrel” occur in any 4-word string. For example, results for this would include things like the phrase “barrel full of biscuits” (a 4-word string) but would not include “biscuits should never be stored in a barrel”, an 8-word string.
For example: (chicken +egg) OR "trucks with flatbed trailers" - you can have one search term with a boolean AND operator only applied to it by enclosing them in parentheses, and another part that avoids the boolean AND by being outside the parentheses.
Alrighty, these are most of the building blocks for our various search operators - I'd encourage you to explore them methodically if you can, be careful not to try to create "silver bullet" search terms that go straight for the jugular. Instead, start with the simplest, broadest search you can (so for genealogy, search for a surname), and then gradually introduce tweaks to your search term one change at a time, so that you can see the impact of each change in the results you get, and respond accordingly.
Being methodical and doing it step-by-step will keep you alert to unintended "collateral damage" in your search results as a consequence of mis-using boolean terms. If you ever get totally stumped at what you're seeing, just let me know (use the email address listed on the site under "contact us") and I'll help!
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Many thanks Emmerson.
Can be very frustrating at times when a word [subject] you are researching gets caught up in regular adverts, time tables etc, racing results, or a badly performing printing press, so different ways of approaching a search subject are always welcome.
Alan.
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Many thanks Emmerson.
Can be very frustrating at times when a word [subject] you are researching gets caught up in regular adverts, time tables etc, racing results, or a badly performing printing press, so different ways of approaching a search subject are always welcome.
Alan.
You're very welcome Alan! I find one of the best tricks in that situation is looking for a distinctive phrase that the unwanted results share (so, advertisement slogans, for example, are ideal because they're consistent across a lot of the unwanted material). Once you've identified that phrase, repeat your search with the original term but append a boolean NOT (the minus sign) followed immediately by the phrase in speechmarks. It's the same approach as in that "cavendish" example in my previous posts.
eg:
Jones -"best goods"
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Citizens of Rootschat!
Just a quick update:
- The help page is now updated with more relevant information - https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/help (https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/help)
- The printing situation should be sorted. We focussed on getting the article and page-level layouts sorted as this covered 99% of printing scenarios, and did this across Chrome, Firefox, and Edge browsers. I've had some issues with my IE install so hopefully not too many of you are still using this!
- More newspapers hopefully in August, all going well :)
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Apologies for the slight pre-content release hiccup last night folks. All back to normal now.
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Rumour has it that these papers are coming online in the near future,is it true?
• Auckland Chronicle and New Zealand Colonist (Dec 1842-Feb 1845)*
• Auckland Times (Sep 1842-Jan 1846)*
• New Zealand Herald and Auckland Gazette (Jul 1841-Apr 1842)*
• New Zealand Mail (1871-1907)*
• Poverty Bay Herald (1921-Jul 1939)
• Waihi Daily Telegraph (1936-1941, 1943-1944)
Cheers Janette
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Rumour has it that these papers are coming online in the near future,is it true?
• Auckland Chronicle and New Zealand Colonist (Dec 1842-Feb 1845)*
• Auckland Times (Sep 1842-Jan 1846)*
• New Zealand Herald and Auckland Gazette (Jul 1841-Apr 1842)*
• New Zealand Mail (1871-1907)*
• Poverty Bay Herald (1921-Jul 1939)
• Waihi Daily Telegraph (1936-1941, 1943-1944)
Cheers Janette
Hmmm, we must have a mole in our midst.
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What a luverly mole to spread some news ;D :D
Cheers
KHP
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What a luverly mole to spread some news ;D :D
Cheers
KHP
It has been a very busy mole
Cheers Janette
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Thanks all for your efforts. Very much appreciated.
Just in the process of creating a searchable spreadsheet index, of some 500 clippings uplifted for just one project I'm currently working on. Then there is another one of 160 clippings, before a reunion in October.
The research would not have happened without the PapersPast service, and the support of RC members, who contribute so freely of their time and knowledge.
Alan.
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You're welcome Alan :)
Hi folks, the new content is live - we're finally able to help bring some better coverage of Early NZ in the north online, we're really proud of this and we'd like to thank the good folks at Auckland War Memorial Museum, Auckland Libraries, and Hocken for helping make this happen.
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Thanks for the PBH update, can now find out shenanigans the family got up to. ;D ;D
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Hah, I've got a few of those in PBH too Whenu - "Madame Stewart" was her stage-name.
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Hi everybody -
I've been remiss - we had a content release yesterday and I didn't post it here! It's a bit of a biggie, and we're now pushing 1950 with the Otago Daily Times and the Gisborne Herald. Also, the Evening Star (of Dunedin) gets brought up to 1947 - Otago is now really well-covered, in fact it's probably the best-covered region on Papers Past now.
Ashburton Herald (Mar 1878-Oct 1880)
Evening Star (1943-1947)
Gisborne Herald (Jul 1939-1950)
Northern Advocate (1940-1945)
Otago Daily Times (1943-1950)
Te Aroha News (misc.1890-1912, 1914-1925)
Thames Guardian and Mining Record (Oct 1871-Aug 1872)
Enjoy!
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Awesome, Thankyou :)
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Thanks very much for the latest updates, Papers Past team!
Spades
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Have others had problems with the site today?
Too many results with only a few hi-lighted and previews in the way
Cheers Janette
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Yep, something is going on; it has defaulted to showing previews (which you can turn off just above the Date column)
But the Content Types are somewhat broken;
selecting Article + Illustration included the Ads (there's no escaping them!!!)
Article only worked correctly (my search had no Illustrations and I don't have time to chase it down right now)
Ads only includes the Articles.
Cheers
Jim
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Hi folks (and thanks Jim and Janette!) -
Apologies, we're knocking the rough edges off a big update yesterday. Here's the state of play:
We have two separate issues - the update has made some people's session cookies invalid, this messes with things like the content types. Thankfully, this is very simple to fix - first close any PP tabs you have open in your browser, then delete the Papers Past cookies from the browser. Done!
The second issue is that we have a couple of things to fix at our end - highlighting went walkabout, and currently the search box itself is just a boolean space, rather than three separate search options (one of which is just boolean). For example, to do an "exact phrase" search, you need to put quotation marks around your terms.
I'm off to help fix stuff, I'll update you all later, I'm really sorry for the hassle, please don't hesitate to throw me any questions.
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Thank you
Cheers Janette
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Papers Past.
Had a quick look-up to do just now, AND AM VERY IMPRESSED with the PREVIEWS that poped up.
Great work ! Keep it up.
Alan.
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Thanks so much Alan! Yes, it was time to cut over to that view, most of our search users were using that setting.
We've sorted the highlighting and search type glitches, everything should be back to normal, except for the default addition of the preview images on the search results. If you don't like the preview thumbnails, or if you have a slow connection, use the "hide preview" switch on the top-right above your search results.
Jim - are you still having issues with the content type filter?
If anyone else here sees anything amiss, please don't hesitate to let me know and I'll investigate. Be aware that closing any PP tabs and deleting the PP cookies may solve a range of search-setting related problems, so if you see strange search stuff, try that fix first!
Thanks for your patience everyone :)
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Wow !
Thanks papers past - that is awesome :)
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Wow, very impressive, thanks PP team 8)
Cheers
KHP
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As this topic has reached the twenty page limit, a new topic can be found at;
"PAPERS PAST" Update Part V
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=804707.0
Spades