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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Sutherland => Topic started by: aspin on Friday 09 October 15 13:41 BST (UK)
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In 1901 census Elizabeth is a widow and a servant working in Kildonan Sutherland
Elizabeth is shown on her marriage later in the year as Elizabeth Bain
I cannot find her in 1881 census in Scotlandpeople so where might she be
Her new marriage sorry I cannot disclose parents are ...John Sutherland and Jessie McKenzie
(((((( Yes you helped me some time ago with Jessie and her family ))))
Elizabeth on the census is 28 and on her marriage later in the year is 27
making her born about 1874 ...there are two Elizabeth's in the family first one born 2.4.1864 who must have died and this Elizabeth I am searching now ....looking at Latheron Caithness there are about 4 Elizabeth Sutherland born at the same time ...is there a way I can find out if one of these Girls are mine before spending any more credits on Elizabeth...Please do not use credit for me
If there's a better way I will try it
Elizabeth
Also PS John and Jessie have a daughter I believe to be a granddaughter named Ina Sutherland cannot find an Ina what will be her correct name another help please
Elizabeth
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Just to clarify she is born Sutherland then becomes Bain between 1901 census and later in 1901 then is a widow when she marries again?
What is her surname on the 1901 census - Sutherland or something else if she was a widow?
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Is this the 1901 - how do you know she is a widow :-\
Elizabeth Bain 28 servant - head of house Frank Sykes 44
Or is it this one
Elizabeth Dutheland 28 servant - head of house Janet Gill 60
both have same birthplace Latheron Caithness - is that correct birthplace for your Elizabeth?
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...Elizabeth is shown on her marriage later in the year as Elizabeth Bain...
Normally, at this time, I would expect Elizabeth to show under maiden name at the time of her marriage in 1901?
Did this 1901 marriage that you mention show her parents as John Sutherland and Jessie McKenzie? I am not clear on that. Have you found her death cert to be able to reconfirm details? As you know, often death certs will include names of other spouses if known to the informant.
Is this the 1901 - how do you know she is a widow :-\
Likely this detail is from the original image from Scotlands People?
Monica :)
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From the 1881 Scotland census at House Roadside, Swiney, Lathon, Caithness:
Jessie Sutherland, 37, born Helmsdale, Sutherland, wife of coachman
Jessie Sutherland, 16, born Helmsdale, Sutherlandshire
Maggie Sutherland, 11, born Latheron, Caithness
Alexander Sutherland, 10, born Latheron, Caithness
Minnie Sutherland, 8, born Latheron, Caithness
John Sutherland, 7, born Latheron, Caithness
Williamina Sutherland, 3, born Latheron, Caithness
Annie Sutherland, 5 months, born Latheron, Caithness
Jacquie
From Jacquie's info above, and from this thread here www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=522104.0 - Elizabeth should be there with the family you would expect.
Have you tried checking 1891?
Monica
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....looking at Latheron Caithness there are about 4 Elizabeth Sutherland born at the same time ...is there a way I can find out if one of these Girls are mine before spending any more credits on Elizabeth...
1872-5 are good years to still search the free index, which will include parents' names, on Family Search https://familysearch.org/search
Monica
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Sorry for the delay in coming back to you both I have ben away to the west Coast and just got back about an hour ago
On Elizabeth's marriage certificate she is Elizabeth Bain Widow
father John Sutherland mother Jessie McKenzie married 1901 November this is correct
In the 1901 census she is Elizabeth Bain
I cannot find a marriage for her to Mr Bain
I wondered if she had any family to Mr Bain
and yes this is her a servant with Frank Sykes
thanks
Elizabeth
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Hello Milliepede and Monica
This morning I have purchased Elizabeth Sutherland 's Marriage certificate from Scotlandspeople to David Bain 1893 in Glasgow daughter of John Sutherland and Jessie McKenzie
This completes my search so far
Am I able to find if there were any family as stated above she is a widow in 1901 census
the marriage lasted about 8 years
thanks for your help again
Elizabeth
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:) Hurray, well done Elizabeth. Another bit forward, as always with this.
Finding children from marriages around this time is very hard :-\ There are no specific searches you can run to find them for births. You could look to the census of 1901 to see whether any possible children show with other connected family, as grandchildren, nieces/nephews etc.
Hard at this time to get a set of children for them really. Have you searched for a possible death for David Bain? This would give you a window of time for possible children's births, to help you with further searches. Elizabeth was obviously working by 1901 from what you have.
Monica :)
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I have entered for more credits in scotlandpeople today and cannot find David Bain anywhere even Googled him
Will keep looking
Elizabeth
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Elizabeth,
If you downloaded the Marriage then you must have spotted David's parents...Donald Bain/Robina Hill and he is listed as a Farmer.
So to narrow David's birthplace you would search for a marriage of Donald Bain/Robina Hill which yielded 0 hits.
The you would go with Donald Bain/Hill = 2 hits (one 17th C) but his spouse's given name is Robertina.
14/06/1854 BAIN DONALD ROBERTINA HILL/FR351 (FR351) M OLRIG /CAITHNESS 039/00 0020 0118
David's age on the marriage registration is 23 making his birth 1873 ish. No Births fit that era so you would step back and find out when and where his mother died as she is noted on the David's marriage registration as being deceased.
However, there is a fly in the ointment as it were...Robina/Robertina died before 1873.
Death - 1868 BAIN ROBERTINA (Mother's Maiden Name: GUNN) HILL F 36 OLRIG /CAITHNESS 039/00 0020
So either he lied about his age or who his parents were, but one quick search for a David 1866-1868 and you have him.
1867 BAIN DAVID M OLRIG /CAITHNESS 039/00 0027
If you send me your email via PM I will send you his Birth.
Don
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Thank you DonM
have sent you a PM
could Robertina died due to child berth
Had a look in S/P again for David's death still cannot find him I'm beginning to think was Elizabeth a widow in 1901
or has he done a runner Familysearch.org have a few David Bain's born in Caithness in their census ??? ??? ??? ???
Elizabeth
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Elizabeth
Didn't look at Robertina's death but it will tell you what she died of, both her parents names, etc.
I see no death of David Bain b 1870 +/- 5years in Scotland using soundex search.
I do see many references to David Bain at the NAS http://catalogue.nrscotland.gov.uk/nrsonlinecatalogue/welcome.aspx Search Tab at top.
He may have died outside of Scotland his trade was a House Carpenter and so he have been working in England and you may find his death there.
Also check the Wills/Military Wills in SP, it costs nothing to search these categories - there are a number of David Bain's listed.
Don
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....could Robertina died due to child berth
David had lots of siblings, at least 8 going by this list here on FS -
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3Abain~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3Adonald~%20%2Bmother_givenname%3Arobertina~%20%2Bmother_surname%3Ahill~
If you check the date of Robertina's death, maybe connected to child birth? Her last birth were twins it seems, Allan and Alexander Murray born on 30 September 1868.
Monica
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Just bought the death certificate and bless her Monica you were right she collapsed 5 hours after delivering of twins
September 30th 1868 and she's only 36 are poor soul
Father George Hill farm labourer mother Margaret Gunn both deceased
I think this family has been interesting.... think I should have bought shares in Scotlands people would have been quite rich by now ??? ::) no just joking, Got to admit its great as you get loads out of it
I did notice on Ancestry there are a lot of David Bain's in Wales and like you said Don he could have travelled over the border as on his marriage certificate he is a house carpenter journeyman thanks again all Elizabeth
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How sad for Robertina :-\
So David was a carpenter from what you and Don have mentioned. An idea. Although he showed as a house carpenter, wonder if also went out to sea as a ship's carpenter? A death could have occurred at sea that would not necessarily have been recorded on SP. Just another possibility really...
Monica
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Good thinking Monica
Yes if they lived in Glasgow there would be plenty work on ships
I had a good email this afternoon
I have my family tree in Tidal pages and I have never clicked on a green icon that is sometimes on one of my relatives in my tree ...I did this last night and had a reply from this gentleman ...he started his tree in 2006 and that's when I started as well ...Jessie Munro popped up so I gave her a click and she is my Jessie who was in Roots some while ago she is the illigitamate daughter of young Jessie Sutherland Elizabeth Sutherlands sister so we may can find out more about this family ...The gentleman's wife is my relative My Grt grandfather was Jessie Mckenzie's sister
Elizabeth
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From what you mention, hopefully for you, this will bring up new info and connections :)
Monica
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It sounds like the pieces are coming together, so best of luck.
And Monica, would you please put some clothes on those kids.
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; ;D ;D >:( >:( >:(
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Yes your right there Don
Thanks to you all just one other thing came to my mind Elizabeth's first marriage was Glasgow her second Inverness .I have been looking for Roberts death in Glasgow maybe I should have a look in Inverness
Elizabeth
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Not found David Bain yet where did he go
Elizabeth ??? ??? ??? ???
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That is a pity :-\
Was just re-reading. Couldn't find David in 1871 after the death of his mother Robina in 1868. His father Donald looks to have died in 1870 and young David is living with his Uncle David Bain, also a carpenter. The rest of the children are together, under the care of a Marjory Sutherland. If you can access, a family tree here http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/37034065/person/19963678489/facts Nothing on young David (not sure if tree owner knows about him?).
David Bain 47 Joiner (employing 2 Men) b. Olrig
Mary Bain 47 wife
Catherine Bain 16
Mary Bain 14
Catherine Bain 75 mother b. Mey, Caithness
David Bain 3 nephew b. Olrig
John Sutherland 21
Address: Bridgend, Dunbeath Estate, Latheron
Still showing at his Uncle and Aunt's home in 1881.
Doesn't help with his death details though...
Monica
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Brothers William and Robert both went on to become police officers and lived their lives in Salford Lancashire. Not sure if any clues there? Brother Donald died in Scotland in the 1950s.
Monica
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Thank you Monica
I will look at that later
David married an Elizabeth Sutherland I don't have a Marjory in my family but could be a married in law
Will give it a look
Has been known for neighbours to wed
Elizabeth
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Elizabeth, did you discount the death of a David Robertson Bain in 1900 in the St Rollox area of Glasgow? Birth year would fit with that birth that Don found earlier.
Monica
Added: There is this birth entry in Glasgow https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F7Q5-8CM - likely connects to the death above :-\
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No Monica I didn't I thought as I had the marriage of David and Elizabeth in Inverness he could has stayed on there
I will send you a PM
Elizabeth