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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: AddictSE7 on Sunday 11 October 15 17:42 BST (UK)

Title: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Sunday 11 October 15 17:42 BST (UK)
My grandad Christopher McDonnell lived in Dublin south and married Jane McDonnell in 1909 in 1910 they had a daughter called Mary Agnes bap St Andrews Westland Row, I know that Jane died roughly 5 years later and my grandad came to London and married again in 1919 but what I really need to know was what happened to Mary, did she die also did she marry I have no clues.
In 1911 census she is living at one end of Townsend St with her mum, nan and mums sister also called Agnes and although they were married her dad was living at the other end of Townsend St with his mum an two brothers in a tenement. I imagine times were tough and they were all on the breadline.
I would be grateful for any help with this.
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 11 October 15 18:38 BST (UK)
Hi There

First I would ask the moderator to move this to the Dublin board incase she stayed in Dublin and married there !

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 11 October 15 18:40 BST (UK)
Mary Agnes in 1911 in Towsend St. for reference.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Trinity_Ward/Townsend_Street/85342/

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 11 October 15 18:41 BST (UK)
Is this Christopher ?

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Trinity_Ward/Townsend_Street/83147/

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 11 October 15 18:45 BST (UK)
Is this your thread ?

http://www.GenesReunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1302308

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 11 October 15 18:48 BST (UK)
There's NO Jane McDonnell death registered between 1911 & 1919 with a correct age.

Are you sure you are working with correct details ?

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 11 October 15 18:52 BST (UK)
Jane is down as MCDONALD

This has caused HUGE confusion in my own family  ;D

First name(s)    Christopher
Last name    McDonnell
Registration year    1908
Registered Quarter/Year    Oct - Dec 1908
Registration district    Dublin South
Volume    2
Page    681
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 11 October 15 18:55 BST (UK)
Mary Agnes birth

http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/db76e30480128

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Sunday 11 October 15 19:03 BST (UK)
Yes that's Christopher living with his brother, when my grandad married my nan he told her that his first wife (Jane) died , their daughter Mary A was taken in by a convent , do not know if true, Why would he lie I'm trying to think if Jane died of TB seems to be in my memory
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 11 October 15 19:09 BST (UK)
Well,

I'm not saying for one minute that he 'lied'.

It's possible that he fibbed.

Marriages broke up and divorce was not an option back then, so it happened that people moved and assumed a new identity as it were.

I'm not saying that this is what happened, just that it can't be ruled out for now, 'til we find a death for Jane.

Given her Dublin address I also would have expected to have seen a burial for her in Glasnevin, but none either  ???

So, for one sec, can you just clarify a few details.

When Christopher married in England, what did he give as his father's name, his father's occupation, and then his own occupation ?

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 11 October 15 19:24 BST (UK)
Ok this may start to make a bit of sense and is a bit sad.

You were wondering why, in 1911 Christopher and Jane were living apart.

I have found a record which may explain it.

In 1910 Christopher has a record for 'neglecting his child'.

The case was 'discharged'.

Tara

Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 11 October 15 19:27 BST (UK)
1914 there is another prison record for Christopher.

He and a group of other men assaulted a Philip Clarken.

Jane is listed as his next of kin.

Christopher received a one month sentence,

So, we can assume Jane was still alive then.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 11 October 15 19:29 BST (UK)
1907 Christopher's brother John served a one month sentence for robbery.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 11 October 15 19:56 BST (UK)
1915 and Jane's mother Maria is still listed at Townsend Street.

http://databases.dublincity.ie/burgesses/search_new.php?searchtype=street&year=1915&address01=TOWNSEND%20STREET

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 11 October 15 20:06 BST (UK)
John also has a 1905 prison record !

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 11 October 15 20:08 BST (UK)
John has about 3 records for 1907.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Sunday 11 October 15 20:10 BST (UK)
Oh Lordee,
Tara I'm shocked, do I tell my mum this ? She will be heart broken.
Oh , this may be a pattern, his brother Patrick came to England and changed his surname from McDonnell to Byrne BUT no one knows why.
We assumed he did something bad and this was a way of hiding !, who knows.
Where did you see these reports? And more importantly can I see them ?
Shocked
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 11 October 15 20:13 BST (UK)
UGH Genealogy usually unearths some skeletons.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 11 October 15 20:15 BST (UK)
Christopher's 1911 record.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 11 October 15 20:22 BST (UK)
Christopher's 1914 Record

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Sunday 11 October 15 20:23 BST (UK)
Chris' dad was called Berard Brian I can't remember what his occupation is on marriage cert I'd have to dig it out
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 11 October 15 20:26 BST (UK)
I suppose your original question was with regards to Mary Agnes.

1. I'm not getting any good marriage hits ~ the issue is if she used her middle name or not ~ if not there are WAY too many variables to trace.

2. If she went into a convent, sure that opens a whole other scenario. You'd need to know which one and then try and see if that convent. You don't know the convent, even if she went in to one for sure, and even then, very few have kept records.

3. The hope is that some day, if she did marry and have descendents, that they will see this and get in touch. There have been great success' this way !

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: Radcliff on Sunday 11 October 15 20:27 BST (UK)
I suggest you look up his prison records at a family org centre , before you speak to your Mum, and see what he was involved in it could have been quite petty crimes , no point distressing her at this point in your research
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 11 October 15 20:28 BST (UK)
Don't worry about Bernard / Brian.

I just wanted to make sure I was working on the correct Christopher, but I was.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 11 October 15 20:35 BST (UK)
BTW

Jane COULD have died and her death not be registered ~ it happened.

I would have expected to see her in Glasnevin BUT that's not to say she wasn't buried elsewhere.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Sunday 11 October 15 20:42 BST (UK)
Tara
I have to say thanks for finding this info I'm amazed I really am, all the searching I've done I've never found this amazing info, it changes things .
Can you tell me and I know your busy but is there any prison records for any other brothers Michael, Patrick AND anything on their dad Bernard ?
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 11 October 15 20:46 BST (UK)
Do you have any address' for them ?

I was able to find Christopher based on address'

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 11 October 15 20:49 BST (UK)
Did you know that Bernard is buried in Glasnevin ?

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 11 October 15 20:50 BST (UK)
He was buried there in 1899 aged 50.

Last address 16 Asylum Yard.

Match to his family on the 1901 Census.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Sunday 11 October 15 21:44 BST (UK)
No I did not know he was buried in Glasnevin, my uncle told me that Bernard's oldest son Michael was buried there, that so fantastic and we did not no when Bernard died, you're unbelievable, I have his wedding cert and all his children's baptism records but after the family left Navan I didn't know what happened to Bernard, and now I do, as I live in London and can't visit Glasnevin I will look on their website tomorrow after work.
My head is spinning, I have seen a picture kid Asylum Yard, horrendous conditions, he died young, I wonder what of.
Thanks Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 12 October 15 12:21 BST (UK)
Hi There

Hope you guys are feeling better today after the shock of yesterday.

The one thing I will say is 'Please try not to judge'.

The written word often looks so much worse than the fact.

Dublin was such a hard place to live in at the time.

Unemployment was rife, disease and death was rampant in the tenements, 1913 saw The Lockout, 1916 The Easter Rising.

Christopher & Jane lived through all this.

So, I just wanted to say, 'We weren't there, We don't know what happened this young couple'.

Hope that helps !

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 12 October 15 12:31 BST (UK)
The Glasnevin site is great.

If you choose the standard, plus image option, then you will be able to see the entry in the burial records which should give his cause of death and who buried him.

As there is no extended option then it appears that it was a paupers grave.

Again, please don't get upset.

This was so common for the time.

Very few in Dublin had the luxury of a private grave or a headstone.

At least you now know his final resting place.

BTW My name is McDonnell too ~ So I LOVE being able to help a fellow Macker  ;D

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Monday 12 October 15 18:56 BST (UK)
Hello Tara,
So glad I'm in the capable hands of a fellow McDonnell.

Yes Christopher and Jane must have had a hard time of it, I'm pretty sure that's why he came over to London for work and a better life.
I haven't heard of ' Thr Lockout' I will read up on that.
I really need to find out when Chris came over, are there any passenger lists to England? And I need to find out if/when Jane died before 1919 because that's when he married my nan or heaven forbid he is a bigamist !!
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 12 October 15 19:05 BST (UK)
There will be no passenger records.

Ireland was part of the UK at the time, so it was just classed as travelling from one part of the UK to the other and hence no records.

I'm sorry but I've tried everything and can't find a death or burial for Jane.

I have Bigamy on my tree.

Granted mine was in 1862 so it's easier to laugh it off.

More pause for thought when it's your Grandad.

Again, this isn't set in stone for him yet.

The Lockout

This might help.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Lock-out

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 12 October 15 19:08 BST (UK)
It happened, even in relative recent times, that men went to the UK or the US to look for work, with the best of intentions of, when getting on their feet, sending for their wife and children.

Many were just never heard of again.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Monday 12 October 15 19:23 BST (UK)
Tara,
Oh that's a shame, was hoping there'd be some sort of list.

Going back to Christopher's prison record in 1914 when he an others assaulted a man, would this of been in the news papers.
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 12 October 15 19:44 BST (UK)
It's possible but not definite.

irishnewspaperarchives are a sub site.

10 for 24 hours 30 for 30 days

No guarantees though.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 12 October 15 19:52 BST (UK)
Have you looked for the death of Jane in England ?

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Monday 12 October 15 20:32 BST (UK)
Hi,
No I haven't , just never thought she came here so no I haven't
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Monday 12 October 15 21:07 BST (UK)
Tara, I have just remembered something, when I first started my family tree I asked my mum loads of questions, like you do and I remember her telling me that in my Nans things was half a marriage certificate , my nan had ripped it in half, I think once she was married to Chris she found it in his belongings and went mad, I'm only assuming of course but it's all looking likely that he was still married to Jane.
Still doesn't help knowing what happened to Jane an Mary Agnes.
Just remembered so I had to tell you.
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Tuesday 13 October 15 19:26 BST (UK)
Hi,

I am now looking for another McDonnell, he is from this same family, do I carry on here or start a new thread ?
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 13 October 15 22:56 BST (UK)
We can only guess why your Nan did what she did !

I was helping someone recently whose Nan burnt her own birth cert ~

I found reasons but they were hard for the family to accept !

Anyway, ask away here re the other McDonnell's ~ I know you had two families with the same surname intermarrying so it's no harm to keep it all here !

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Wednesday 14 October 15 08:03 BST (UK)
Ok,

My grandad Christopher had a sister
Ellen McDonnell
b 10. 12.1885- Navan
Now it seems the family were all born in Navan and for what ever reason moved to Dublin, I have traced most in 1901 and 1911 census but never found Ellen she would not have been old enough to live on her own.
Her parents were
Bernard McDonnell abt 1848
Mary Caffrey abt 1850.
Any help with her would be great
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 17:39 BST (UK)
Hi There

I finally got the laptop off the child  ;D

So, what exactly do you have on Ellen to date ?

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Wednesday 14 October 15 18:06 BST (UK)
Ok,
I know the family lived in Asylum Yard Dublin in 1899 (thanks to you) in 1901 census , but no Ellen, in 1911 their mum and 3 brothers lived in Townsend St but not Ellen, she would of been 15 yrs old, I can't seem to find her.
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 18:25 BST (UK)
Where did you get her birth from ?

I can't see it !

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 18:29 BST (UK)
John McDonnell 1907

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 18:32 BST (UK)
John McDonnell 1907 (2)

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 18:38 BST (UK)
John McDonnell 1905

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 18:40 BST (UK)
John McDonnell 1907 (3)

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 18:50 BST (UK)
Possibly Bernard in 1877 in Navan.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 19:06 BST (UK)
Sorry I don't know your name but I wish I did as I want to SQUEAL with relief.

I have found the death of Jane.

PHEW

She died 6th November 1918 in the Workhouse.

The workhouse was the hospital too at the time.

You are going to be shocked by the following ~

Her and Christopher actually had a much bigger family than you thought . . .

More to follow . . .

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Wednesday 14 October 15 19:10 BST (UK)
Wow John was a right scallywag, I bet he got the sack after stealing from his boss.
I wonder if he came to England like Chris and Patrick.

I am really surprised that Patrick wasn't in prison because he was the one I thought was a bad lad, changing his name to Byrne, very strange.
There was an older brother called Michael b 1876, my uncle told me he was in the army a very long time , no idea how he knew this
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 19:13 BST (UK)
Did you see my last post ?

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Wednesday 14 October 15 19:17 BST (UK)
Oh I'm so excited Tara, my names Michele by the way :)
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 19:24 BST (UK)
Hi Michele  ;D ;D ;D

Where did Christopher go to in England BTW ?

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Wednesday 14 October 15 19:26 BST (UK)
Oh my I'm so excited Tara, my name is Michele by the way
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Wednesday 14 October 15 19:27 BST (UK)
He came to London, Eltham which is South London
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 19:28 BST (UK)
Is there a munitions factory nearby ?

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 19:42 BST (UK)
OK SO HERE GOES

There will be a few ups and downs here along the way . . .

So, By 1918 Christopher had gone to Eltham.

Googling shows that there was a munitions factory there and this is where he went to work.

As I mentioned before, men often went to Britain or the US to get work, full with the intention of once settled, bringing their family over.

So, Jane and her children were taken into the workhouse while Christopher was gone (interestingly Jane gave his name as BERNARD).

I will just refer to Jane for now.

6th November 1918 she died in the Workhouse RIP

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 19:44 BST (UK)
This is the Workhouse record for Jane McDonnell

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 19:46 BST (UK)
Next I am on to Mary Agnes McDonnell

By 1918 she is known as Mary ELLEN McDonnell.

She was taken into the Workhouse with her Mum Jane.

3rd September 1919 she was released from the Workhouse.

Nearly one year after her Mum's death.

I shall keep looking to see if there is more for her.

For now I am attaching her Workhouse record.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 19:49 BST (UK)
In 1912 Christopher and Jane had a daughter called Agnes McDonnell.

Here is her birth.

http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/eb73c40272459

In 1918 she was taken into the Workhouse with her Mum Jane.

3rd September 1919 Agnes was released from the Workhouse, nearly one year after her Mum Jane's death.

I shall keep looking for records for Agnes.

For now I am attaching her Workhouse record.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 19:52 BST (UK)
1916 and Christopher and Jane had their first son.

He was called Bernard.

In 1918 he too was taken into the Workhouse with his Mum Jane.

17th November 1918 Bernard died in the Workhouse, 11 days after his mum Jane RIP

I will keep looking for more records for Bernard.

For now I am posting his Workhouse record.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 19:55 BST (UK)
1915 and Christopher and Jane had another daughter.

Her name was Margaret, Maggie.

In 1918 she too was taken into the Workhouse with her Mum Jane.

3rd September 1919 she was released from the Workhouse, almost one year after her Mum's death.

I shall keep looking for records for Margaret but for now I shall post her Workhouse record.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 19:58 BST (UK)
So to note,

3rd September 1919
 
Mary Ellen (Agnes) McDonnell
Agnes McDonnell
Margaret McDonnell

Were all released from the Workhouse.

Christopher referred to his daughter going into a convent (I think you said convent).

Anyway, it turns out it was three daughters.

It will be hard but given all this new info to work with it would be possible to contact the different institutions should your family wish to.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 20:00 BST (UK)
I have found Jane & Bernard.

They were both buried in Glasnevin in 1918.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 20:03 BST (UK)
A note from Bernard's 1918 entry.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 20:05 BST (UK)
Poor Bernard

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Wednesday 14 October 15 20:21 BST (UK)
I'm utterly speechless, you are fantastic, you've found so much stuff it'll take a while to get my head round it.
Poor poor Jane, I wonder if her mum died is that why she went in the workhouse, does it say what she died of and so young.
My mum always said there was a boy called Kevin, I was half expecting you to say his name.
My uncle I referred to earlier was called Bernard, so Chris gave that name again, strange that, he also name he's other sons, John, Patrick after his brother, he had 10 children with my nan
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 20:22 BST (UK)
At some point if you feel like gambling 4 then I would purchase this marriage cert.

Name    Agnes McDonnell
Year            1937
Quarter   Jul - Sep
District    Dublin North
Volume    2
Page            310

It was to a John Neary

http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/e347656178853

I can't post the names of their children as there is a good chance that they are still alive but I am intrigued with some of their Christian names.

Again, it would be a gamble though !

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 20:25 BST (UK)
I mentioned before that the Workhouse was also the only place where you could get free medical care.

As Jane and Bernard died shortly after entering it would appear that they all went in due to ill health.

The three remaining daughters must have been kept in as there was no-one to release them to.

They were three young girls, so Maria may not have been in the position to undertake their care.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Wednesday 14 October 15 20:38 BST (UK)
And just think he probably never saw his daughters again, as far as I know he never went back to Dublin, very sad.
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 20:39 BST (UK)
Very Sad

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 20:40 BST (UK)
1906 and Andrew McDonnell (Jane's father) aged 52 is buried in Glasnevin.

Last address Townsend Street.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 20:43 BST (UK)
1918 and a Maria McDonnell is buried in Glasnevin.

Last address Townsend Street.

This is possibly Jane's Mum.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 20:47 BST (UK)
DUH

Jane's father WASN'T called Andrew !!!

Was it Patrick ?

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 20:50 BST (UK)
Where was Jane in 1901 ?

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 20:51 BST (UK)
Sorry

Found Her !

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Trinity/Luke_Street/1310982/

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Wednesday 14 October 15 20:54 BST (UK)
I was just about to say, her dad was Patrick, well done
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 20:58 BST (UK)
Jane's baptism, just incase you don't have it.

Her Mum's name mistranscribed as Eliza.

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/4c06770251742

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 20:59 BST (UK)
. . . and Agnes . . .

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/37d8eb0248497

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Wednesday 14 October 15 21:03 BST (UK)
I love to see their own hand writing, that's brilliant, I notice Maria signed her surname with one L.
All three lived in one room, was Luke st similar to Asylum yard ie- run down poor condition do you know.

If you google Asylum Yard (images) you will see what I mean
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 21:08 BST (UK)
Agnes actual baptism.

http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633497#page/123/mode/1up

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Wednesday 14 October 15 21:15 BST (UK)
Oh I didn't know Janes mum & dad lived in Townsend st as well.
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Wednesday 14 October 15 21:16 BST (UK)
I meant when they had their children.
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 21:19 BST (UK)
Jane's actual baptism

When you look at the actual register her Mum's name IS Maria  ;D

So, 28th July 1882 was her birthday !

http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633499#page/15/mode/1up

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 21:23 BST (UK)
1886 and there was a 39 year old Patrick McDonnell buried in Glasnevin.

Last address Townsend Street.

This is a trickier one as his Christian name is more common so I can't guarantee it's a match.

I suppose Jane isn't your blood so possibly you don't want to follow this lead.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Wednesday 14 October 15 21:29 BST (UK)
Could certainly be her brother, how common is the name McDonnell in Ireland
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 21:32 BST (UK)
It would be too old to be her brother but would be the right age to be her father.

'Tis a common surname.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 21:33 BST (UK)
I'm pretty sure that this is Jane's Mum in 1886 ~ POB wrong, but that's fairly common.

Current address is a match to Jane's birth address.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Wednesday 14 October 15 21:43 BST (UK)
That made me laugh, I imagine you needed a few choice words back the to survive
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Wednesday 14 October 15 21:47 BST (UK)
It's staggering what you were sent to prison for back then !

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Thursday 15 October 15 19:46 BST (UK)
Hello Tara, it's me again

I found the birth of Ellen McDonnell Christophers sister the sister I couldn't trace , I'm not sure if she ever lived in Asylum Yard with the rest of the family as she is not on any census

Ellen McDonnell
3rd January 1886
It say address of father on cert as Flower Hill Navan and Fanny Casey present at birth Railway St Navan, I take it she was the midwife, hope this helps
Michele
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Thursday 15 October 15 20:07 BST (UK)
I'll have another route around but it's possible that she died in childhood.

I'll let you know if I find anything !

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Thursday 15 October 15 20:27 BST (UK)
I take it that you've seen Bernard & Mary's marriage !

http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635258#page/22/mode/1up

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Thursday 15 October 15 20:32 BST (UK)
There are some possibilites for John Caffrey in Navan on GV

http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/meath/navan.htm

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Thursday 15 October 15 20:59 BST (UK)
Yes I have got a copy of Bernard and Mary's marriage but I never knew the name of Bernard's mum, now I know it was Maria, thank you so much
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Thursday 15 October 15 21:00 BST (UK)
No Probs

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Sunday 18 October 15 13:39 BST (UK)
Hello, could this be the marriage of Christophers grandad
Michael McDonnell
Marriage Date :Feb 1833
Place: St Peters Athlonen, West Meath
Spouse: Maria Watch

I know the family were Navan which is Meath but is West Meath near how can I be sure
Michael's son was Bernard
Hard to know distance as I'm in London
Would be grateful for any help
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 18 October 15 13:45 BST (UK)
Bernard had children born in Navan and he was married in Navan BUT that doesn't mean HE was from Navan.

Westmeath and Meath are neighbouring counties, Athlone in the first, Navn in the latter.

Athlone and Navan are not near each other.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 18 October 15 13:46 BST (UK)
Personally I wouldn't go back a generation yet.

Have you gotten all the burials etc that I pointed you to ?

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Sunday 18 October 15 13:59 BST (UK)
Yes, the ones you found yes
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 18 October 15 14:02 BST (UK)
Great

 What info did you get on Bernard ?

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Sunday 18 October 15 14:20 BST (UK)

I have his marriage date 1874 Navan, and his death date 1899 Dublin,
I do not know a exact birth so roughly about 1848, maybe Kells, that's all I've got
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 18 October 15 14:23 BST (UK)
Sorry

I thought you said that you followed up on the burials.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Sunday 18 October 15 14:40 BST (UK)
I am looking now but cannot see anything new yet
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Sunday 18 October 15 15:16 BST (UK)
Sorry to be so thick but what do you mean by following it up ?

 :-\
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 18 October 15 15:22 BST (UK)
As in buying the record from Glasnevin Cemetery.

Tara
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Sunday 18 October 15 18:17 BST (UK)
Hi Tara,

I signed up to Glasnevin and I found Janes burial record she died of Phnemonia.

I also think I've found Agnes Neary burial, all dates work
She died in 2001 ages 89, she lived in west Dublin Cabra
It's very hard to find any one with Mc at start of name you have to fiddle a bit
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: AddictSE7 on Monday 19 October 15 20:34 BST (UK)
Tara,
I looked on the Glasnevin records but couldn't find Patrick , Chris' dad, I tried different ways of spelling McDonnell but nothing, shame I would of liked to know what he died of.
Can you remember exactly how you typed it as you found it in 1899
Title: Re: Mary Agnes McDonnell
Post by: taramcdsmall on Tuesday 20 October 15 14:10 BST (UK)
HUM

Am I starting to know YOUR family better than you ?  ;D

Christopher's father was called Bernard NOT Patrick.

So enter :

Bernard

McDonnell

1899

into the relevant boxes and you will see him !

Tara