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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: Smokey807 on Tuesday 13 October 15 13:16 BST (UK)
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I want to determine any family information for Duncan Elliott Alves prior to his marriage in 3rd qtr 1911 at Westminster, London to his wife Olive Hazel Wilson. He and his wife moved to Tunbridge Wells in about 1905. From his death record all I know is that he was born 1870 in New Zealand and that he died March 2,1940 in London. His wife Olive from her death record was born 1891 in Canada and died in London March 22,1955.I would like to get her family information also prior to the time of her marriage. I have not found any children born to the couple and I have all the information I need after the 1911 marriage.
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Have you found them in 1911 census just before marriage?
Fathers names from marriage cert?
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Have you got a copy of his Will?
Probate index entry:
Duncan Elliott Alves of Devonshire House Piccadilly London and of Bryn Bras Castle Caernarvonshire died 2 March 1940 at St Anns Heath Virginia Water Surrey Probate 18 th July to Hazel Olive Alves widow and Augustus Frederick Sims solicitor Effects £32,287 6s
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I like the look of Bryn Bras Castle!
http://www.brynbrascastle.co.uk/
If you look at the page on that website about the history of the castle it does mention Duncan Elliott Alves - describing him as a millionaire.
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Duncan Elliott Alves 1870/34322 parents Sarah and John
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Search/Search.aspx?Path=%2fqueryEntry.m%3ftype%3dbirths#SearchResults
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Have you tried a search of paperspast ? Several results come up , including this one which mentions family and business interests :
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=ODT19101222.2.85&srpos=6&e=-------10--1----2duncan+alves--
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Bit more about him on wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryn_Bras_Castle
Seems he got his millions from oil. Was Mayor.
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His father: John Alves (decd), gentleman.
Her father: James Wilson (decd), merchant.
Have you traced their witnesses?
Margaret Wilson looks likely to be a relative of the bride.
Harry Pollitt may have been related to the groom by marriage (see marriage reg Dec qtr 1901 Marylebone - Harry Pollitt and Mabel Amanda Alves on the same page).
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Death reg for John and Sarah Alves ,mentioned in the article I gave :
John Alves b 1834 d Oct 1910 Tonbridge 2a 448
Sarah Alves b 1835 d Jul 1910 Tonbridge 2a 384
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1901 census :
John Alves Civil Engineer 65 b " Atlantic Ocean " ( ! )
Sarah Alves 60 b Dumfries , Scotland
guests at The Hotel Great Central , St Marylebone
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1901 census :
John Alves Civil Engineer 65 b " Atlantic Ocean " ( ! )
Sarah Alves 60 b Dumfries , Scotland
guests at The Hotel Great Central , St Marylebone
...and, with them, Duncan Alves (single, 31, financier) and Mabel Amanda Alves (single, 24), both born Dunedin, N.Z.
Mabel married Harry Pollitt on 6 Nov 1901 - her stated abode was the same hotel (as it was for Harry also).
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Sister of Duncan Elliott Alves :
Mabel Manda Alves 1872/35686 parents John and Sarah Alves
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Search/Search.aspx?Path=%2fqueryEntry.m%3ftype%3dbirths#SearchResults
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1901 Canada census :
James Wilson merchant 52 b Ireland
Margaret Wilson wife 47 b Quebec
Hazel Wilson daughter 15 b Quebec
Ethel Wilson 16
Mary Wilson 18
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KH5F-KD4
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Ethel Wilson married Captain Herbert D'Olier Kingstone 24 Jun 1916 , Montreal
brides' parents James Wilson and Margaret Orr
James Wilson , merchant , married Margaret Orr 20 May 1880 Montreal
http://applications.banq.qc.ca/apex/f?p=113:11:0::NO::P11_CLE:31303
Note - his occupation is not given on this record but is available from another source .
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A bit more here about the Wilson sisters and their mother's estate :
https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=%22duncan+elliott+alves%22+AND+%22hazel+olive+wilson%22
The second result , Chapitre 74 , is a pdf - there is an English version beside the French.
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It seems from the various newspaper articles that John and Sarah Alves were in Australia before they were in New Zealand. There is a marriage worth considering :
John Alves and Sarah Elliott 1858 Victoria ref. 3486
There were two children born in Victoria :
William Davidson Alves 1860 Victoria 4363
Caroline Alves 1861 Pleasant Creek Victoria 16013
Edit : It would be worth posting on the Australia board for possible further info , adding a link to this thread so no one goes over the same ground.
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That's interesting, as there are various records around (Will, and electoral rolls if I remember rightly) for a Duncan Davidson Alves. I wondered if he was related. I'm sure there must a link somewhere
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That's interesting, as there are various records around (Will, and electoral rolls if I remember rightly) for a Duncan Davidson Alves. I wondered if he was related. I'm sure there must a link somewhere
Baptised 15 Jan 1805 at Sunninghill, Berks to parents William ALVES and Sarah Chandler.
Perhaps he was grandfather of Duncan Elliott Alves?
ADDED: or maybe not! He died a bachelor in west London in 1870, probate to his sister Magdalen Alves, spinster, of Putney.
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According to Probate Index entry, he was a bachelor when he died in 1870 in Uxbridge
No Will. Letters of Administration to Magdalen Alves spinster sister
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There are loads of Alves in the Probate Index - dying all over the world!
Hazel Olive dies 22 March 1955. Leaves a Will. Executor is Dorothea Maria Sims solicitor.
I guess a copy of her Will would help confirm there were or weren't children. They did seem to go all over the world, so absence of a birth reg in England and Wales might not be conclusive that there were no children.
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Hazel Olive dies 22 March 1955. Leaves a Will. Executor is Dorothea Maria Sims solicitor.
I guess a copy of her Will would help confirm there were or weren't children. They did seem to go all over the world, so absence of a birth reg in England and Wales might not be conclusive that there were no children.
The document I mentioned in reply 14 says that there were no children . It was dated 1943 so after Duncan's death. ( I tried to attach but the file is too large )
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OK - that's sorted then.
Will might (or might not!) lead to wider family (nephews, nieces etc) if OP was interested.
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Thank you for all your fabulous input. With it and further research by me I now have all the information I need about both Duncan Alves and his family and his wife and her family.
Just one item I would like to get to complete everything for the Alves family namely details of the move of the Alves family from Australia to England. We know from the 1901 census in London that John Alves, his wife and two children Duncan and Mabel were living as guest at a hotel. I could not find a 1891 census for them in England and so presumably they were still living in Australia in 1891.
Also want to know details of Duncan Alves wife Hazel Olive Wilson about how she came to meet Duncan or more importantly when she emigrated from Canada to England. She was living with parents and two sisters at the time of the 1901 Canada Census and her marriage was Aug 1,1911 in London so we are looking for her /her family moving sometime between 1901 and 1911.
I am very impressed with your response to my inquiry. Some great work by all of you.
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I haven't been able to spot the family on an incoming list but I think I've found them on the index of lists of outgoing passengers from Victoria :
Mr J Alves 45
Mrs J Alves 40
Mr D Elliott Alves 30
Miss Alves 24
all travelling on the Oriental to London in Feb 1899.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gag/
It might now be possible to find them incoming - no time just now, will try later.
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Yes that is the right family sailing from Victoria,Australia to London. They were John Alves; his wife Sarah; son Duncan Elliott , and daughter Mabel Amanda. It is interesting to note that the ages of Duncan and Mabel are very close to those given in other records but those for John and his wife are out by about 20 years. Based on death records John was born 1834 not 1854 and Sarah 1835 not 1859.
I see from your source that the family made another trip from Victoria to London Sept 1903 on the Himalaya . They were given as Mr Alves (John Alves, age 46 born 1857; Mrs Alves (Sara) born 1863 and their son Duncan age 27 born 1876. Once again Duncan's age is close but the age of John and his wife are close to the 1899 passenger record but not close their ages from the death record.
The 1901 London census gave John born 1836 and his wife Sarah in 1841.
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There are several possibilities about the ages on the passenger lists ;
They were written down incorrectly
They were transcribed incorrectly
There is another couple called Mr and Mrs J Elves who just happen to be travelling in 1899
I think the last is unlikely unless there is another family member called John , an older brother perhaps that we haven't come across yet.
In any event I still can't find the corresponding arrival details for their journey.
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The report of the 1910 death of Mrs John Alves in the Kent & Sussex Courier states that she had been living in Tunbridge Wells for about 6 years , which might fit with the 1903 journey. Other reports mention her only son Duncan and only daughter Mabel which made me wonder about the two children born in Australia. I've found the daughter , Caroline , who was born in 1861. She died in 1864 in New Zealand: 1864/8077 Caroline Alves 3 yrs. I haven't found anything about the son , William Davidson Alves.
Edit : William Davidson Alves coal company manager George Street , Dunedin , NZ 1881 electoral roll.
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My name is David Alves and I have traced my family back to a john Alves who lived in temple East lothian. This goes back to 1730's think there is a connection as Alexander Alves patented the crest and Moto. It would be good to share information
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Alves was Mayor of Caernarfon at one time, maybe more than once. The Caernarfon and Denbigh Herald is almost certain to have an obituary on him. I have photo of him and he looks quite the tycoon.
His name lives on in North Wales football with the Alves Cup.