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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: Rosinish on Thursday 15 October 15 00:50 BST (UK)
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My 3 x g g/father is listed in the Newcastle Directory (1846) & I would like to know if anyone has any old pics & info. please?
This is how it's written......
Jude Martin, vict. Sun Inn, 80, Side .........
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gat/
I'm confused simply because there are others listed with the street name of "Quay Side" not just "Side"
There's a "New Sun Inn" with address as Quayside which I think is probably the correct one....
https://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/4079315309
A search for "Sun Inn" gives address as Front Street.....
http://www.viewnewcastle.co.uk/pubsandbars/sun-inn-info-47035.html
Annie
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Hi Annie,
That second link is to a pub in Burnopfield. Burnopfield is in County Durham - not in Newcastle city centre
Christine
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Thanks Christine...............my geography isn't great over the border ::)
So, is it the 1st or not is the ???
The address has thrown me as I can't find it?
I need a PUB MAP as the family were in different pubs at different times & I intend to do a "Pub Crawl" when I find them all (a lot of them have changed name), while I am still able to walk ;D
Annie
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This appears to be it...............mentioned here described as Newcastle Quayside;
http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/lifestyle/recalling-great-fire-newcastle-1854-6161411
Annie
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Side is a separate street - not the Quayside. It runs from St. Nicholas Street diagonally down towards the Tyne Bridge. You should be able to see it on a modern map.
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I have yet to find Martin Jude in 1851 on a census although he was married in N/castle in 1851 but he was not the Inn Keeper in 1854 at the time of the Great Fire from list of names......
http://www.picturesofgateshead.co.uk/great_fire/
“In Newcastle, commencing at the east end of the property destroyed upon the Quayside, the following is a list of the principal sufferers” “Mr. T. F. Davidson, Sun Inn”
Annie
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Side is a separate street - not the Quayside. It runs from St. Nicholas Street diagonally down towards the Tyne Bridge. You should be able to see it on a modern map.
Thanks Christine,
I have finally found a bit with the address.......no more confusion, just need some pics ;D
http://www.connectedhistories.org/Search_results.aspx?pc=%22Sun+Inn%22&sr=pp&st=200
"Martin Jude, innkeeper, Sun Inn, Side, Newcastle- upon-Tyne ; his residence is the same"
Annie
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Hi Annie,
A postcard of Side in later times
http://www.picturesofgateshead.co.uk/postcards_newcastle1/opcn52w.jpg
In Pigot's 1834 Directory a Nathan Jude was landlord of the Wheatsheaf at 6 Bigg Market, Newcastle.
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Thanks fiddlerslass.
I think Nathan was his brother.
Got to go out but will check back.
Annie
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Hi Annie
Your post caught my eye because I have come across Martin Jude's name as a trade unionist and Chartist. His address is in lots of newspaper articles on BNA - I can see you've got plenty of pubs to visit! Let me know if I can help with any queries.
Drosybont
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Hi Drosybont,
I managed to get quite a bit from FindMyPast when they had an offer on but didn't have time to get through everything.
Martin seemed to do a lot for the Miners which I'm proud of.
His son Anthony was also an Innkeeper.
Some of the names so far I have are;
Byker Bar, Old Highlander Pub, The Sun Inn & Darn Crook.
Annie
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Hi Annie. if I recall when attempting to locate Martin in 1851, I looked back to 1841 and found family. I do not think Byker Bar is a Pub/Inn. as on original it appears to be an area/street in Newcastle?
Keyboard86
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Byker Bar is definitely a street.
http://maps.nls.uk/view/102346485
If this link works look to the west of the 'S' in All Saints. It runs down into Byker Bank.
I wonder where they all were in 1851 :-\
Christine
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Byker Bar is definitely a street.
http://maps.nls.uk/view/102346485
If this link works look to the west of the 'S' in All Saints. It runs down into Byker Bank.
I wonder where they all were in 1851 :-\
Christine
Hi,
Not on topic exactly, but just wanted to register my thanks as I have a relative who was born in/on Byker Bar & had always wondered what &/or where it was! Now I know! Many thanks for the map link c-side, much appreciated. Just need to find the nearest church for the baptism now!
Kind regards
David
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Hi Annie,
In May 1851 a newspaper gave his address as Ship Inn, Drury-lane, Cloth-market, St Nicholas Square, Newcastle upon Tyne. With his work he could have been away from home at census time - have you looked in Scotland? It was a difficult time for trade unionists so another possibility is that he deliberately avoided being included in the census.
Drosybont
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Hi Annie
A couple more pubs for your list - 1843 Three Tuns, Manor Chare, and 1847 Cock Inn, Head of the Side.
Drosybont
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Hi Annie,
A postcard of Side in later times
http://www.picturesofgateshead.co.uk/postcards_newcastle1/opcn52w.jpg
In Pigot's 1834 Directory a Nathan Jude was landlord of the Wheatsheaf at 6 Bigg Market, Newcastle.
What a lovely pic fiddlerslass.....thanks.
Checked my tree...........the only Nathan I have at the moment for that era running a pub, was born c1749 (Martin's g/father)?
I have a lot of info. not recorded in my FTM yet too.
Annie
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Hi Annie. if I recall when attempting to locate Martin in 1851, I looked back to 1841 and found family. I do not think Byker Bar is a Pub/Inn. as on original it appears to be an area/street in Newcastle?
Keyboard86
Kb.........yes your right. Although 1841 Byker Bar, Martin is listed as a Publican but I don't know which pub?
Annie
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Hi Annie,
In May 1851 a newspaper gave his address as Ship Inn, Drury-lane, Cloth-market, St Nicholas Square, Newcastle upon Tyne. With his work he could have been away from home at census time - have you looked in Scotland? It was a difficult time for trade unionists so another possibility is that he deliberately avoided being included in the census.
Drosybont
Thanks Drosybont,
Another to add to the Pub Crawl which I didn't have ;D
1 I missed was Meters Arms Inn (son Anthony) was listed there 1863/4 in the Trade Directories although I haven't been able to find that one either although I believe it changed name to The Empress in more recent times as the Meters was demolished.
Would have loved a pic of that too along with The Ship Inn.
I have tried everywhere 1851 & none of the family are to be found ???
Annie
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Hi,
1841 Robson's Directory of Durham (Includes Newcastle!)
Martin Jude "Half Moon" Byker Bar
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Thanks fiddlerslass,
Another gap filled.
I have been reading through all my info. & adding what info. I already have & the info. other's have given me.
I have spent a few hrs on google & come up with a very interesting story.
I knew from reading articles that Martin was big in the Miner's fight for better working conditions etc. but I also found this........
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gbm/ (Page 29)
Have been trying to find out more about his Chartist work for Fergus O'Conner School but no dates as such.
Annie
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Hi Annie,
That article in the link is interesting. I've got a biography of the lawyer which it mentions, William Prowting Roberts, that's where I came across Martin Jude's name. It's on loan at the moment, due back in a couple of weeks' time, so I will see then if it has any more details for you.
Drosybont
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Thanks D,
I didn't realise the extent of Martin's interest although I knew he was highly thought of as a campaigner.
I certainly didn't find that on FindMyPast.
I will also post a list of all the pubs, addresses & dates when I've finished.
Interesting life he lead.
Annie
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Hi Annie,
Yes, his work was important and remembered after his death. I've been wondering how he had time to be a publican too!
Apparently in 1877 memorial stones were put on the graves of him and Thomas Hepburn, the other north east trade union pioneer, and some money was left over, so marble busts of them were put in the old miners hall in Durham. Presumably these are now in Redhills, the current miners hall which is celebrating its centenary this coming weekend.
And in 1991 both men were shown on a banner which was made following the amalgamation of various unions into the North East Area of the NUM - that's apparently in Redhills too.
Drosybont
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In Pigot's 1834 Directory a Nathan Jude was landlord of the Wheatsheaf at 6 Bigg Market, Newcastle.
Thanks fiddlerslass,
That Nathan may have been Martin's uncle born c1769.
I knew there was Nathan's in the family but Martin didn't have a brother Nathan.
Annie
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Hi Annie,
Yes, his work was important and remembered after his death. I've been wondering how he had time to be a publican too!
Apparently in 1877 memorial stones were put on the graves of him and Thomas Hepburn, the other north east trade union pioneer, and some money was left over, so marble busts of them were put in the old miners hall in Durham. Presumably these are now in Redhills, the current miners hall which is celebrating its centenary this coming weekend.
And in 1991 both men were shown on a banner which was made following the amalgamation of various unions into the North East Area of the NUM - that's apparently in Redhills too.
Drosybont
Thanks Drosybont,
His life makes interesting reading & I wonder where he found time to have at least 8 kids with 2 wives.
The info I found when reading about him, I was unable to save on my comp big enough to be able to read it & enlarging it just made it fuzzy.
I posted a note on here in Aug.....
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gcf/
A family member sent me the attachments.
Annie
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Sorry about the size..............they were a lot smaller on my comp :-\
Annie
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Hi Annie,
When I checked the William Prowting Roberts biography there wasn't much in it about Martin Jude. Have spotted a reference to him in Dorothy Thompson's 'The Chartists: Popular Politics in the Industrial Revolution':
"Martin Jude, leader of the miners in the north-east of England and an active Chartist, was earning his living as a innkeeper by the time the Chartist movement began. Like many other trade unionists, he had little chance of employment at this trade. For men of this kind, the keeping of an alehouse could mean earning less money than they would have gained at their trade."
She goes on to give details of what another Chartist said about his own circumstances, and then says:
"The alehouse or the newsagent's shop provided a meeting-place between formal meetings, and also provided a filter through which strangers in a neighbourhood could gradually be introduced to the councils of the local Chartists. Most towns had their well-known radical pubs and alehouses . . ."
Drosybont
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Hi Drosybont, Thanks for that info.
Pure luck I found this as my email no longer works i.e. no notifications.
I need to do some more research on Martin!
I would like to find info. on him as a Miner.
He is/was always listed as having an occupation with Pubs.
Annie
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Pleased you saw it, should have thought of sending you a pm to let you know I was posting. Have been meaning to do it for a while, had time over the holidays.
You've probably seen it already, but just in case you haven't, the page on the Durham Mining Museum site about him has links to interesting newspaper articles:
http://www.dmm.org.uk/whoswho/j911.htm
If that doesn't work, it comes up if you google "durham miners martin jude".
The article at the bottom of the page on accidents to boys says he worked as a miner for 34 years. would have started work aged 8 or thereabouts so around 1812, not sure what records there might be in that early period.
Drosybont
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Thanks Drosybont,
Plenty for me to read through for sure & yes he would have been 8 yrs old, what a life :(
Paid off in the end though as he was recognised by many for his perseverance for a better working life for others.
Annie
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Re Martin Jude
You might want to look in another source - Richard Fynes book The Miners of Northumberland and Durham; a history of their social and political progress (SR Publishers, Wakefield). Many years ago I did some research on the North East Miners and Martin Jude was one of the most prominent in the struggle to organise the trade union. I recall that he was victimised by the coal,owners after the 1832 strike, and could not get work back in the mines, hence his move to inn-keeping.
In another post you mentioned Sarah Ann Jude and Thomas Sherwood Baugh - they were both witnesses at the wedding of my great grandfather, John Graham to Alice Richardson in 1885.
If you need more on Martin Jude I may still have my research notes
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Hi Bryan,
Welcome to Rootschat ;D
Thanks for your info. on Martin (Book by Richard Fynes).
I welcome any new info.
How interesting that Sarah Ann & Thomas Sherwood were witnesses to your g g/parents marriage.
I wonder if they were related?
Sarah Ann was my g g/aunt, sister of my g g/father Henry Jude.
As you are new on the site you need to make another 2 posts to be able to use the PM (Private Message) option.
Annie
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Hi Bryan,
I have had time to look at the info. you gave me through google books!
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jgh/
Pg’s 5 (denoted with ‘v’), 37, 51, 53, 114, 118, 121, 122, 137, 141, 167, 169, 185 & 186.
Thanks for your interest but I'm also keen to know if there was a connection with your family regarding Sarah Ann Jude?
Annie
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Hello members of the Jude Family!
We have a Family Forum on Facebook and we’d like to make contact with our English cousins! We have DNA completed for this family as well!!! We have traced our line to the Northumberland area/Newcastle area!
Please join us! Our link;
https://m.facebook.com/groups/549251418544026
Cheers! - Hans
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Hi Hans,
Welcome to Rootschat!
I will be honest, I'm a bit of a phobic with facebook unless I know for sure which sites I join.
Can you please give some info. with names/dates/places for your connections with Northumberland?
Where were your family born as I'm not back far enough with a paper trail (1740s) taking me outside England apart from some members of my direct Jude line who went to Ireland from Northumberland c1892 - 1894?
I may have earlier info. but unfortunately I recently lost a lot when my comp failed amidst a back-up i.e. the date I'm using is from an old back-up which may have been updated on my 'lost' info. although it will be retrievable.
Annie
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Hi
I've recently come across Martin Jude when searching for Thomas Wakenshaw, and saw that his pub is mentioned as a union meeting place on page 9 of http://www.ndfhs.org/pdfs/Vol-17-No-3.pdf
Andy
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I'm interested in Drosybont's comment that "It was a difficult time for trade unionists so another possibility is that he deliberately avoided being included in the census" as I can't find several of Thomas's Wakenshaw borthers or his father in the 1841 census and it seems the whole family was denied work in Northumberland after the 1831-32 strikes. How was the census avoided? Using a false name, or hiding at the census (as it seems to have beenn conducted door to door)? Might union members have found work in neighbouring areas using false names?
Two other questions spring to mind now I've pressed 'post'! It seems that many of these early union leaders were methodist teetotalers (why not 'tea'totaler?) and meeting in a pub seems an odd choice ...
While I suspect that Thomas Wakenshaw was a Chartist I haven't noticed him being stated as such, but I guess he must have been given that Martin Jude was - does anyone know of a specific reference for Thomas (or his brother Alexander, or his father, another Thomas - or to union activities for either)?
Thanks
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Hi AndyR2, welcome to RootsChat ;)
Thanks for the link at Reply #36 as I'd not seen it before or if I had I don't recall it as it will be in among my 'lost' info. on my computer failure a few years back.
Hopefully Drosybont will see your message & reply.
Annie
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Thanks for the welcome Annie, and pleased the article was of interest - Andy
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The Monthly Chronicle of North Country Lore and Legend 1890-08: Vol 4 p379
sourced at the Internet Archive
On the 17th of June, Mr. Thomas Wakenshaw a veteran Northumbrian miner, died at his house at Stakeford, near Bedlington, at the advanced age of 88 years. He had been identified with many of the labour struggles which occurred during the second quarter of the present century. Until his death he was the only man in the district still living who had passed through the perils and the pains of the battle for unionism sixty years ago. He was appointed the representative of Netherton and Glebe Collieries in 1831 and 1832 to attend the delegate meetings of miners held in Newcastle.
During the strike of 1844, Wakenshaw earnestly supported the efforts of Martin Jude, Mark Dent, Christopher Haswell, and the other leading miners of that day.
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Apologies for being slow to respond.
Looking at Chartist newspapers, the Northern Liberator based in Newcastle and the Northern Star which was the main one for the whole movement, I can only see reports mentioning Thomas Wakenshaw as a miner's leader. He may well have also supported Chartism, though. In the late 1830s and early 1840s around Newcastle these movements were closely connected, with Chartist 'lecturers' frequently visiting mining areas and colliers supporting Chartist meetings.
Although beer houses and inns were often used as Chartist meeting places, and provided economic opportunities for people whose political involvement made other work difficult, there was an awareness that the association with alcohol could be problematic. In the 1840s teetotalism was promoted by some Chartists, as part of the ‘New Move’ towards education and self-improvement, and in some localities Chartists established alternative meeting places, if they could afford them.
Drosybont
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Thanks Alan - searching for Thomas Wakenshaw throws up several interesting articles with similar content to this.
Thanks for having a look for me Drosybont - I haven't seen anything defintive, though as you say it is not unlikely - I suspect primitive methodism was the more important for him, and I still remember my grandparents' strong methodist and teetotal views!