RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Sligo => Topic started by: kennyseddon on Friday 16 October 15 15:52 BST (UK)
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Hi, i would appreciate any help if possible, im stiil trying to find my gg grandad;
Michael Henry b 1844 approx
Married 1872 in Liverpool to Rosanna Field/Oreilly
Father Michael Henry- farmer
Mother Bridgit ?
The above information has been taken from his marriage cert, and basically its all i have of him, he is nowhere to found on the ,81,91 censuses in Liverpool although Rosanna is still listed as married, until the 1901 census when she is now a widow
The only other Michael i can find is on the 1871 census;
Michael Henry b 1845
born Sligo
Lodger living in Farnworth (Bolton)
Painters labourer ( the tenuous link is Rosannas brother was a painter}
Is there any way i could find out if this is my Michael in Sligo?
Or at least discount him and start looking elsewhere.
Thanks for any help, and for taking the time to read this (long) post,
Cheers Chris
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If he was RC you could try looking here http://registers.nli.ie/ for his baptism. It will take a while as you don't know which parish.
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ouch 671 Sligo born ones in 1901 Census
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gb5/
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Griffiths Valuation gives about 20 results for Michael Henry in Sligo circa 1850s which could narrow down areas to search but the parish listed in the Valuation is a Civil parish so some work is needed to find which RC parish the townland is in.
No point in going into all that now unless he was RC.
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch
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23 Michaels in Sligo 1901... http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gb6/
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7 Pension Applications.. only one where father was Michael
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gb7/
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Wills for all Michael Henrys... http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gb8/
these are based on where person DIED
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There was a lot of work done on Michael Henry here :
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=659966.36
They were no closer to finding him though !
Tara
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Have you tried looking for him in prison or hospital in the UK ?
You will need that elusive Mum's maiden name or a townland in Sligo to try and narrow down a search for him here !
Tara
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Also did you get a nearer estimate to his age :
I note that you said that in 1872 at this marriage that his age was 20 ~ did that prove to be correct ?
Tara
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I take it that the Farnham link was correct.
So, that would mean that Michael had a brother called John Henry b abt 1841 in Sligo too.
Tara
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Hello,
What is Michael's occupation on his marriage certificate and children's birth certificates?
I don't think I have seen this information - sorry if it is already posted.
Heywood
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Hi all ,thanks for all your input , it is much appreciated.
Hi Tara, Michaels age on his marriage cert is 28 so that is where i got his birth to be 1844,
Hi heywood, Michaels occupation as painter is the same on his marriage cert and on the childrens up to Williams, the youngest in 1883.
Michael on the 1871 census from Farnworth (only up the road from L/pool) b abt 1845 painters labourer and the fact both Rosannas brothers were painters in Clayton St L/pool is my only connection really.
Tara, what is the Farnham link you mention?
Thanks to all again, Chris
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The painter sounds good then doesn't it!
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I wouldn't call Farnworth 'just up the road' from Liverpool but it does fit. :)
I wonder if Tara means the John Henry who is next door but one to Michael in 1871, although he just states Ireland as birthplace.
This may be him in Horwich in 1881 3826 /27/20
John Henry with wife Mary and children Maria and Bea.
I haven't yet found a marriage where you could then compare fathers.
Horwich is quite close to Farnworth.
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Farnworth and Horwich are both Bolton registration district.
There is a marriage 1871 Michael Hennery to Susan McElvarnick.
Lancashire BMD has the name as Hennery and Henry.
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Farnworth and Horwich are both Bolton registration district.
There is a marriage 1871 Michael Hennery to Susan McElvarnick.
Lancashire BMD has the name as Hennery and Henry.
I would say that this couple are in Ashton under Lyne in 1881 so not your Michael.
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Hi Heywood
I'm confused.
Are you looking for a 'second' marriage for Michael ?
Should it not be a marriage for JOHN the possible brother that you would be looking for ?
HA Or am I missing something ?
Tara
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Chris
It was common for men to travel for work, even out of the country and to send for the family once settled.
Have you looked for him all over the UK ?
Have you tried looking for him in America ?
Have you followed up on the deaths suggested to you on your other thread ?
Have you followed up on the arrest records suggested to you on your other thread ?
Tara
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Hi Heywood
I'm confused.
Are you looking for a 'second' marriage for Michael ?
Should it not be a marriage for JOHN the possible brother that you would be looking for ?
HA Or am I missing something ?
Tara
Tara, I couldn't find a marriage for John which would then give a father's name to compare with the Michael Henry / Rosanna Field marriage.
Whilst looking in that area- Bolton registration district, I saw the Michael Henry/ McElvarnick marriage.
This couple turn up in Ashton in 1881.
That makes me wonder if Michael and John in Farnworth are not connected to Michael Henry who marries in Liverpool.
I think that is where Sligo comes from so if he is not the chap in Farnworth, he may not come from Sligo either.
We will have to see what Chris thinks.
Heywood
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I'm with you now ;D
Although, I was working on the occupation being such a good match, although that could be a coincidence.
Hopefully Chris will tell us how he got on with the leads from the other thread and sure we can take it from there.
Tara
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It is a good occupation match and that's what makes it so frustrating.
I know it would cost a lot but I think you need to check the birth certificates to see if Michael is named as father and if his occupation remains as a Painter.
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It's such a shame that the English census can't be searched by occupation the way the Irish one can !
Tara
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Thanks again all, i checked the possible deaths for Michael, the most promising being the death in 1898, in Liverpool ( which ties in with the censuses) age 56, and got the death cert
and his address which led to another family ( wife and child). Interestingly the poor chap fell into the docks just before new years eve and died from shock, whilst visiting Liverpool Archives i found that the story made the front page of the Liverpool Mercury.
I have a few wrong death certs and have found another match b 1844 approx d 1896 Bury Lancs, 8c 359
I have a few emigrating or being at sea but their professions dont fit.
Cant find any links to prisons as yet, and it seems a long time to be hospitalised . ill send for this new death cert and see what it brings.
Thanks for your help again
Chris
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Hi Chris
This is going to be a tricky search as you are working with such a big time line.
You can only really go by the time the last child was born ~ to the Census where his wife says she was widowed.
Now, as I'm sure you are aware, while we would all like to think that the Census are completely accurate they often aren't, people lied, people fibbed, people made guesses, people made errors.
Then there is the Census taker themselves, they too were open to human error OR making presumptions.
So, you have a date when the last child was born.
Just a scenario, but he could have abandoned his wife and children.
His wife, on the following two Census when asked, says Married, to cover embarrassment and of course to a degree she still would be . . .
. . . then there is the Census where she states she was widowed . . .
. . . But, just for one second, presuming that he did abandon his family . . . wherever he went to, he could have died and his wife wouldn't have known . . .
Was there then a presumption by the latter Census, in her own mind that he was dead, he may not have been . . . so you still need to look for him AFTER this date.
So, again, I'm not saying that this is fact, just a possibility . . .
. . . but you could be buying a LOT of certs to try and work it out, wait on certs 'til you get a much better lead.
IF it were me, I would look at every single Michael Henry with at least a 5 year age variant in all of England, Scotland, Wales (at a later point then the US)
Start at the first census after the last child was born . . . start with one of the Michael's that you will find.
My instinct is that his occupation won't change so stay looking for painters.
Be flexible with places of birth as we still can't be 100% sure that Sligo or indeed Ireland is correct, so be open to any POB.
In Ireland, people in prison or institutions sometimes appear by just their initials, I'm not sure if the same applies in the UK but try searches this way too.
Don't rule out a possible match that may have a wife and children, worse case scenario he may have remarried.
A lot to think about and take it but a bit of lateral thinking may yield results.
Tara
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Wow, thanks Tara for such an extensive reply, and your sound advice. Youve made some interesting points i shall take on board and i will continue to search the Michael Henrys again as you suggested. I suppose it will be one thing finding him and then to prove hes the correct one, thanks again
Also thanks Heywood ( the place or a surname? )for your comments, this board really is one of the best of its kind around for help and advice!
Cheers,Chris
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Hi Chris,
I would just reiterate checking the birth certificates of the children- or perhaps the last child born.
It may be that, as Tara says, the couple were separated. Sometimes, baptism details state one thing and civil registration another.
Good luck with the searches
Heywood ( after the place - grandad's birthplace :) )
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Cheers Heywood, and if you need any look ups around Heywood( the place, not the surname) i live local so will be glad to help
Chris
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That's kind of you. I am only a few miles away myself. That's where I started with Family History looking up microfilms at Heywood and Bury library- pre-computer days :)