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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: sarra on Saturday 17 October 15 01:08 BST (UK)
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I have an Australian Citizen who died in USA in 1958.
I have found his burial in the Springvale Cemetery (Victoria).
I presume a death record would have been issued in the USA.
Would there also be a record for this death recorded in Australia.
Help would be appreciated.
Sarra
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Hi there,
Have you asked the Cemetery to confirm that it is a burial? If so, perhaps they can provide you with the contact details for the funeral directors who may be able to provide details for your ancestor.
Each state/territory in Australia has its own parliament, and I am not familiar with Victoria's legislation so I cannot give you a definitive answer re a death registration. I can however confirm that in New South Wales that the funeral directors lodge the registrations directly to NSW BDM. I can also recall that Queensland BDM issued death certs for members of the Defence Forces who Fell while serving overseas in both WWI and WWII.
I am interested in learning of the outcome of your enquiry.
Cheers, JM
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Hi sarra,
I know I am not quite answering your question here, but would just like to mention it is not unusual for a memorial for a deceased person to be at one cemetery when the death of the person occurred somewhere else entirely. This of course is not the same as a burial.
It often happens when a close family member is interred, extended family is mentioned on a plaque or headstone.
Another thing to remember is that the repatriation of "entire" remains to Australia would be a costly exercise. Ashes from cremation of course, are a simpler matter.
Sue
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Hi there,
Have you asked the Cemetery to confirm that it is a burial? If so, perhaps they can provide you with the contact details for the funeral directors who may be able to provide details for your ancestor.
I am interested in learning of the outcome of your enquiry.
Cheers, JM
Hi JM,
Have not contacted the Cemetery as yet - will do that tomorrow. Not sure how forthcoming the funeral directors will be.
Will post back when I have any information.
Thank you..
Sarra
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I would expect the funeral directors to be able to confirm details about the deceased that you already know ..... including for example his nok or last address .... You should likely already know this, but it would help you to confirm that you definitely have the 'right' person.
Cheers, JM
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Hi sarra,
I know I am not quite answering your question here, but would just like to mention it is not unusual for a memorial for a deceased person to be at one cemetery when the death of the person occurred somewhere else entirely. This of course is not the same as a burial.
It often happens when a close family member is interred, extended family is mentioned on a plaque or headstone.
Another thing to remember is that the repatriation of "entire" remains to Australia would be a costly exercise. Ashes from cremation of course, are a simpler matter.
Sue
Sue,
I understand what you are saying I have come across something similar before.
I just checked the information I got from the Springvale Cemetery website. The person who died 1958 USA was cremated. I can see now it's likely his ashes are interred in the grave of the person who died in 1993 (his ex-wife). The information on the website lists this as a burial (1993).
Hopefully the Springvale Cemetery can give me the details for both of these.
Thanks for your input.
Sarra
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I would expect the funeral directors to be able to confirm details about the deceased that you already know ..... including for example his nok or last address .... You should likely already know this, but it would help you to confirm that you definitely have the 'right' person.
Cheers, JM
JM,
The only time I contacted a funeral director asking for information I never got a reply.
I'm sure I have the correct person, I have done my research.
Sarra
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I have always found funeral directors to be very helpful, I still write snail mails to funeral directors and I always include a stamped self addressed envelope for their reply.
Cheers, JM
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I have always found funeral directors to be very helpful, I still write snail mails to funeral directors and I always include a stamped self addressed envelope for their reply.
Cheers, JM
Thanks JM,
Hopefully if I have to contact one, they well be forthcoming with my request for information.
Cheers....Sarra
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I'm back again.....somewhat confused as to where I go from here.
Reply from Springvale Cemetery - says that the Australian Citizen was cremated in USA. His ashes were interred (2012) in the plot with his ex-wife (died 1993). Wonder where the ashes were for 54 years.?
The Springvale Cemetery - suggested that I contact the Registry of BMD's (Victoria).
I have just received an email from them, they could not answer my query by email. I would have to fill in a form, and need to supply proof of Identify.
Also as I'm not next of kin or daughter or son, I would need a letter from one of them giving me their permission to obtain the death certificate.
My research leads me to believe there is one daughter, not sure if she is still alive.
I'm rather confused because this death occurred 57 years ago. The registry do not say if they even have this record.
Any suggestions please ....
Sarra
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Sarra,
It is difficult because we do not fully know the circumstances- his name , marital status at death, offspring and so on.
However, one possibility is the ashes were sent to Australia after the death of a second wife, or at the request of some family member. It may have been a matter of agreement between a number of parties.
On the other hand perhaps the ashes were "rediscovered " in storage somewhere in US or Australia and then interred in the grave of the ex-wife.
It may not be possible for us to know these matters .
Sue
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Sarra I think that his death had to be registered in the country where he died so Vic BDM would not have any record.
Do you have all the details of his death in the USA?
Is there anything on the Wills and Admon Index at PROV?
Did the ex-wife leave a Will?
Don't expect the funeral directors to give you any information as they have to comply with the Privacy Act.
Difficult to help without any names.
Cheers
Cando
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Sarra,
It is difficult because we do not fully know the circumstances- his name , marital status at death, offspring and so on.
However, one possibility is the ashes were sent to Australia after the death of a second wife, or at the request of some family member. It may have been a matter of agreement between a number of parties.
On the other hand perhaps the ashes were "rediscovered " in storage somewhere in US or Australia and then interred in the grave of the ex-wife.
It may not be possible for us to know these matters .
Sue
Sue, Yes I understand how difficult it must seem to people reading my post.
About 6 months ago I discovered I had a connection to this gentleman. Since then I have done a lot of research on him. I did not want to put his name on the Internet because I don't think his family have made the discoveries that I have.
I was just trying to quietly put it all together. Hence my search for his death record.
He was married at the time of his death (third wife) no issue. Seems he only had one child (2 wife was the mother). She divorced him in 1947 - his ashes are interred in her grave.
I think I have found the death of his third wife (2002), she was cremated and her ashes collected.
Perhaps she had kept his ashes all these years maybe if I get access to her will there maybe something in that.
There is an Ancestry Tree with his line and that of his 2nd wife, they don't mention his first or third wives - so probably have not done their research. He divorced his first wife.
Hope this makes things a little clearer for you.
I'm inclined to think that a family member has had his ashes interred - perhaps thought mother and father should be together.
I'm happy to give his name and family names - if someone could send me a PM.
Thanks for your input.
Sarra
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Sarra I think that his death had to be registered in the country where he died so Vic BDM would not have any record.
Do you have all the details of his death in the USA?
Is there anything on the Wills and Admon Index at PROV?
Did the ex-wife leave a Will?
Don't expect the funeral directors to give you any information as they have to comply with the Privacy Act.
Difficult to help without any names.
Cheers
Cando
Cando, Yes I thought it would be registered in USA - however I have searched online and it is not showing up.
I have read his will - Only acknowledges one child - daughter.
I don't want to put his name on the Internet because I don't think the family know what I have discovered. Happy to reveal it in a PM if someone can help me.
Haven't read 2 wife's will as yet. Also third wife left a will - I'll try and access that next week.
Thanks
Sarra
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In the US, death certificates are issued by the state or on a more local level. Not every state has online death records. If you have an idea of where he lived or died, I may be able to point you in the right direction to find this information.
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I would be inclined to think that his ashes were interred at the place of cremation and resided there until the death of his second wife. The daughter could then make repatriation possible and have his remains interred with the mother.
Neil
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My apologies for not posting back before this to let you all know how I was getting on.
Firstly I received a lot of help from Cando - which I have been following up on.
At the moment I'm in contact with a person in the USA who is able to retrieve records from the relevant authorities. Only problem is I don't have a PayPal account so we are trying to work something out.
shellyesq - I'll send you a PM - with details - you may have another idea where I can obtain this record - however I think I have nearly exhausted all avenues.
Neil.
Yes it seems that he was cremated in USA. It's possible after the third wife died in 2002, the daughter (his only daughter from 3 marriages) had his ashes repatriated to Australia, and interred in her mother's grave.
Just mentioning that I read the will of the third wife - her stepdaughter was left nothing - she left all to her nieces, nephews and so on.
Thank You...
Sarra
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I'm happy to report that I have been able to download the death certificate for my Australian Citizen.
As it was not compulsory to register this death in Victoria Australia, the family did not register it.
Many Thanks to all for your input.
I'll ask the Mod to move this to the Completed board.
Sarra
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I'm glad you were able to get it.