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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Buteshire => Topic started by: PotHunter on Sunday 18 October 15 18:59 BST (UK)
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Hi All
Given the lack of details I've got I appreciate this is a bit of a long shot, but here goes!
I'm looking for Gilbert McNicol who was apparently born in Millport. The assumption among the family is that he must have been born around 1885. He moved to South Africa where he married Ellen Grainger. Their daughter Nadine was born in 1915. Gilbert died in SA in 1932.
I've searched Ancestry and not managed to find any relevant McNicols in Millport. (I've tried Mc Nicol with a space too)
Any help or suggestions gratefully received!
Thanks in advance
Colin
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One to throw in the pot...
1891 census Cardiff Street, Millport, Buteshire
Mary McNicol Head Married 33 Stocktakers wife - b. Argylshire, Scotland
Gilbert McNicol son 8 (1883) b. Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Bethia McNicol daughter 6 (1885) b Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Katie McNicol daughter 2 (1889) b Glasgow, Lanarkshire
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Brilliant!
I was just about to add that he had two sisters called Kate and Bethia and a brother called Duncan so this is definitely him.
Thanks Captain!
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Still at Cardiff Street, Millport
1901
Mary McNicol - head - married - Grocer
Gilbert 19 carriage hirer
Bethia 15
Catherine 12 (Katie)
Duncan 7
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No sign of Dad tho'... hmmm Duncan arrived 1894 .. a mystery
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And this is a complete shot in the dark...
1861 - William Street, Barony, Milton, Lanarkshire
Bethia McNicol (b. 1833) Renfrewshire, married to Hugh McNicol (b 1829) Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Children
William McNicol 2 (1859) b Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Mary Kerr 14 General Servant b. Glasgow
Hugh was a spirit dealer
Going on nothing more than the mother's name Bethia . . William as a possible Husband for Mary and father for Gilbert ?
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No.. just found William in 1901 he is single, a spirit dealer (like his father was) living in the household of his sister Jane McNicol (also single) in Milton, Lanarkshire .. look again
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Random info for you which may help.. you could order Duncan's birth certificate and hopefully you will then get the details of his father
Duncan McNicol d.o.b. 8 May 1894
Birthplace : Millport, Buteshire
Merchant Navy Seaman
Discharge Number : 981896
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Thanks again Captain, this is incredibly helpful.
Interestingly Gilbert progressed from being a carriage hirer to owning a couple of car dealerships in Durban and Pietermartizburg.
I noticed Mary's ages being transcribed as 33 in 1891 and 49 in 1901. I couldn't see the actual images on Ancestry. I suppose 33 could have been 38.
Also noticed that they moved from number 37 to 29 Cardiff St. Nice of them to make it easier for us :-)
Any ideas about what a stocktaker did? I guess if it involved travel it could explain why the father was away on both census days. Given Duncan's career at sea I wondered if Dad was also a seaman but can't think of a connection to stocktaker.
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Hi there both of you :)
Captain2 has certainly found lots of info there for you.
Ancestry is not however the best way to delve in to Scottish records, although it is the best for the Scottish Census transcripts.
With all the info that Captain2 has now found, you need to look at the pay to view site www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk Although pay to view, costs are very reasonable...hurray! Scottish BMDs are some of the best in the world. For this period you are looking at, you can view Gilbert's birth registration online. His birth cert will include his parents' marriage date and place. From there you can work back and forward really with confidence.
Don't worry about ages showing on censuses. Always variable for people really. In respect of addresses, as you mention, really common to find people moving up and down a street, renting accomodation as they did.
Monica
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I used a spare credit on Scotlandspeople which reveals that Gilbert had the middle name McArthur. By playing around with the free search I have found a marriage between a Mary McArthur and a William McNicol in 1880. A Mary McArthur or McNicol died in 1928 whose age matches the year of birth of Mary McNicol per the census.
Isobel
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That looks really promising, Isobel :)
Monica
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Many thanks Monica and Isobel! Certainly something to look into :)
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Isobel, maybe an 1881 census entry given the possible 1880 marriage date you mentioned?:
William McNicol 22 Bread Van Man b. Glasgow
Marry McNicol 22 b. Islay, Argyleshire
Hugh McNicol 5 Months b. Glasgow
Address: 5 Burnside Buildings, Glasgow/Milton
Monica
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Pothunter, start with Gilbert's birth image on SP (Scotlands People). This will let you move around Scottish records with confidence really.
You are confident about his siblings names? What is the source? His marriage to Ellen Grainger, any personal details on his parents on there? Never confident on SA records and what they contain really..
Monica :)
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Making some guesses here until you get confirmation...
From Captain2 and Isobel's info, wondering whether this is William in 1891, whilst his family were in Millport at the census point, maybe with his brother in law? Guess!:
Duncan McArthur 30 house joiner b. Islay, Argyllshire
Marion McArthur 26 wife b. Islay, Argyllshire
William McNicol 32 vistor Foundry Labourer b. Glasgow
Mary Torrie 31
Mary Martin 9
Donald Torrie 30
Lachlan Torrie 24
Address: 139 Garscube Rd, Glasgow/Milton
Monica
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You can confirm Mary McArthur's parents from her marriage registration, but I have my eye on this 1861 census entry for her:
Gilbert Mcarthur 31 Distillery Lab
Janet Mcarthur 31
Donald Mcarthur 6
Catherine Mcarthur 4
Mary Mcarthur 2
Duncan Mcarthur 1 Month...maybe the Duncan in Glasow 1891?
Janet McIndeor 17
Address: Port Charlotte, Kilchoman, Argyll
Monica
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Next stop will definitely be SP, although it may have to wait until the weekend :-(
Very confident on siblings. Have a handwritten note from Gilbert's daughter Nadine (my wife's grandmother) describing them. My mother in law and her sister both remember hearing of them too.
Could a foundry labourer be described as a stocktaker (Mary was listed as Stocktakers Wife in same census)?
Thanks again!
Colin
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Could a foundry labourer be described as a stocktaker (Mary was listed as Stocktakers Wife in same census)?
Colin, this is where the actual records will help you further really. Think you are on the right track from all that everyone has mentioned. You just need to firm up now really through official records...
Monica :)
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I've finally been able to pursue this line further and thanks to SP have confirmed the following:
Gilbert's parents were William McNicol and Mary McArthur (married 30/7/1880 in Glasgow). William's parents were indeed Hugh McNicol and Bethia Slater. This appears to confirm the 1861 census record with the young William present.
William has an interesting array of occupations. On the marriage record he's listed as what looks like a Drapery Warehouse <something>man. In the 1881 census there is a William and Marry with a son called Hugh (as Monica found above). The transcript shows William as a Bread Van Man. In 1882 when Gilbert was born he is listed as a Bread <something> which could be Van Man. I wonder if it could in fact be Journeyman although it doesn't look like there's a y in the middle. In 1894 on Duncan's birth record he is listed as a Carriage Hirer. Monica's possible match in 1891 staying with the McArthur's shows him as a Foundry Labourer.
His absence from the family home on census nights is still a bit of a mystery!
I've found a possible match in the 1901 census though - as a pauper patient at the Argyll and Bute District Asylum! There is a William Stater McNicoll listed, although his birth place is listed as cumbrae, Buteshire. I wonder how accurate the birthplace would have been though. I've not viewed the actual record - just the index record on Ancestry. The transcript there shows his occupation as Formerly Al Cab Herere. Heaven only knows what that might represent!
Thanks again to all for all your help and input :)
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In 1894 on Duncan's birth record he is listed as a Carriage Hirer.
I've found a possible match in the 1901 census. The transcript there shows his occupation as Formerly Al Cab Herere. Heaven only knows what that might represent!
Same thing really (Herere) transcription error by the look of it & should read "Hirer"
Annie