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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Inge on Tuesday 20 October 15 21:24 BST (UK)
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I came across a series of Rootchat postings about members of a Green family in which I found some highly relevant information (provided by "Valda") regarding John and Harriet Green whose several children were baptized at St. Botolphs, Bishopsgate. Two of the children in the list were Edward Frederick Green born in 1801 and James Moring Green born in 1805.
I am wondering if this EFG is the competent painter who exhibited many times in London, and painted a portrait of Maltilda Graham in 1934. This is relevant because her fiance, according to the auctioneers, was James Moring Green, i.e. perhaps EFG's brother).
Auction houses give the birthyear for the EFG in which I am interested as 1767 and his death year as 1850 or sometimes 1851. The birth year seems highly unlikely because that would have made him 73 at his marriage to Catherine Colonna Stilon of Malta in 1840, and 57 years old when he first exhibited at the Royal Academy (he exhibited in London between 1824 and 1851, the last posthumous). the 1801 date makes much more sense. He lived at various London addresses, and also in Malta for a time. and is said to have travelled widely (information by auctioneers who may be copying from each other).
The Richard Lee, also in the Valda entry, was baptized at St. Botolph's in 1798, and was apparently oldest child of John and Harriet Green. He is likely to the the same man who contributed notes to the book "Sketches of the war in Greece" published in 1827. That the painter EFG should have been a brother of Richard Lee Green makes sense, because of a painting of Athens and Greek Street scenes, as well as a "Young woman in Greek Dress" (auctioned by Sotheby's some time ago).
I would like to find out more about this family. EFG probably had no descendants because his wife
died in London in 1845 of rapid consumption (according to a publsihed death notice), and their two young children who, according to family lore, also died in childhood.
Three weeks after his wife's death EFG sold all his paintings and copies of old masters as well as curiosities at an auction without reserve prices due to progressing to India (according to an announcement I found on the web). There he painted portraits and exotic pictures (Indian Snake Charmer), he was in Malta in 1848 for his father-in-law's funeral (funeral description). I have found no death notice for EFG, nor have I found out definitively what happened to his children, Melita Jane and Ellen. They were still alive in 1847 and probably 1848, because they are listed in their grandfather's will (Joseph Stilon, also Guiseppen Maria Stilon, who has an interesting biography).
According to a list of exhibitors at the Royal Academy of Arts (vol.3), EFG lived at 13 New Bond Street in 1824; at 65 Upper Charlotte Street in 1826; at 16 Howland Street in 1828 and 1829; at Upper Gloucester pl. in 1837; at Strada Mercante in Valletta, Malta in 1840 and 1841; at 2 Titchfield Terrace in St. John's Wood in 1843; in Bombay in 1846; and at 17 Nottingham Street in 1951. Auction houses state, EFG travelled widely which makes sense, but the origin of the information is a mystery.
EFG painted a portrait of his wife's sister, my husband's ancestor, and the reason for my interest. Any information re EFG would be of interest. It's hard for us to go and look for it in libraries, given we now live in the USA.
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Melita Jane Green
Age 13
Burial 11 Aug 1854, All Souls, Kensal Green
Address 17 Nottingham Place, St Marylebone
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Thanks very much. This is new information.
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I'm a little surprised this topic is regarded as completed. So far I have only found out the death date of one of EFG's daughters, Melita Jane (from the entry by Mabel Bagshawe). I have not found out where EFG died, nor anything more about his life. I am not even absolutely sure that the EFG listed by Valda in another topic is the painter, though the circumstantial evidence is pretty convincing. It is interesting that the address given for Melita Jane Green is the same listed for EFG for his last exhibition at the Royal Academy in 1851. Since EFG supposedly died in 1851, I wonder if she lived at that address with other Greens or with relatives on her mother's side.
I was hoping that, by finding out more about EFG's extended family, I might find out more about him. Thanks to the Valda entry in another Green Rootschap, I did come across a "List of British Consular Officieals in the Ottoman Empire...." one entry in this list about John Green lists him as Vice Consult at Nauplia, Greece, and says his father was John Green, Treasurer of the Levant Company and his mother was Harriet Staniforth; furthermore, his brothers are P.J. and R.L. Green at Patras (in consular service). Their son was a very well known person, William Mackenzie Green who died as agent and Consul General at Tangier in 1891. There are other entries for Greens in this extended family in this list.
I am wondering if there are any living descendants who might know something about Edward Frederick Green, the portrait painter and painter of exotic subjects (including the Moroccan Courtship painting for
which several outfits offer copies on the web).
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Hi Inge,
I think that this maybe the topic that you refer too...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=451941.27
If it is correct I can attach your reply to the end of the topic so that the other people can read your responses.
Regards
Sarah :)
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You are right, in the sense that that other rootchat about Greens appears, at least in part, be about the same family. I also agree that some of the information in my earlier reply may be of interest to those focusing on John Green father and son. However, my focus is on whether and how these are connected to Edward Frederick Green, the painter. I could enter some of the information I gathered into that other rootchat, perhaps? What do you think?
Although EF Green the painter exhibited frequently in London, little is known about his earlier life.
I am more and more convinced that he is the one listed by Valda among the sons of John Green, and was born in 1801, or at least baptized then (this although auction houses in London list him with a birth year of 1767).
Feel free to move my reply, unless you think it could be confusing to the people interested primarily in John Green.
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Hi Inge,
I have provided a link on the other topic to let the posters know of your new replies :)
Regards
Sarah
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17 Nottingham Place, St Marylebone
This was the home of Hewitt Davis, land agent, throughout the 1850's.
17 Nottingham Street
This was a lodging house.
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Burials in the same grave as Melita (per deceasedonline):
Green, Catherine Colonna 1845
Green, Harriet 1837
Quote from the other thread There is a burial for Harriet Green at Kensal Green cemetery 6th February 1837. This Harriet was aged 69 from Twickenham Middlesex (under 2 miles from Richmond Surrey across the river Thames). If it is her than she is likely to have been buried in a purchased grave and Kensal Green cemetery should be able to tell you who is buried with her
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Dear ShaunJ, Thanks for the additional information about Catherine Colonna and the fact that she is buried with Harriet Green establishes, as far as I am concerned, that the Edward Frederich Green, the painter, is the son of John and Harriet listed by Valda as baptized at St. Botolph's Bishopsgate (and that the birth year supplied by the auction houses such as Tennants is wrong).
I still wonder about why his name is not coming up together with the other brothers, nor why James Moring Green is not mentioned either even though EFG's visits to Greece and Egypt may be due to the family's link to the Levant Company. I also wonder whether EFG died abroad and what happened to the other daughter, Ellen Green, probably born in 1843, but which time the family was no longer in Malta.
Might there be a way to find out if EFG received some training in painting in London?
It is interesting that John Green is listed as "late of New Bond Street" in the other Green thread, and that EFG lived at New Bond Street in 1824 when he first exhibited at the Royal Academy. I'll surf the web some more, but thanks a lot for the info so far. Inge
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Hi, I have discovered that both Catherine Colonna Green (wife of Edward Frederick Green and Melita Jane Green, their first daughter, born in 1841 in Malta) are buried together with Harriet Green and other members of the Edward Frederick Green's family at Kensal Green Cemetery, but I am still wondering what happened to the second daughter, Ellen Green. Ellen is named as a beneficiary in a will by her grandfather Joseph (otherwise Guiseppe) Stilon, a Royal Navy Surgeon in Malta of Italian origin. I obtained the official translation of the will, originally written in Italian, from the British National Archives. Ellen Green is described as "granddaughter, child of my late daughter Catherine Colonna Green." Catherine Colonna died in 1845, but the will indicates that Ellen was still living in 1947. Shortly after his wife's death EFG sold all his paintings, copies of old masters, and curiosities at an auction by Foster autioneers (advertised in "The Atheneum") prior to "progressing to India." That he did go to India is pretty certain because some paintings he exhibited at the British Institution and Royal Academy were painted in India, and his address is listed as Bombay. It could be that he took his daughters with him, of course, and that Ellen died in India, or that family tree information about her dying as a child is incorrect. It also seems certain he was back in Malta in 1848, because he is listed as one of the chief mourners at Joseph Stilon's funeral. Any pointers as to how to find out more about Ellen's fate would be appreciated.
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Thanks Sarah for including me.
Edward Frederick Green was the 5th son of John & Harriet Green He was the Vice Consul in Tunis. b.11 Jan 1801 Bap 14 Jul 1801 d 1884, from family records
He married 2 Jun 1840 in Malta to Catherine Colona Stilton. I have only found one child for them Melita Jane Green b 30 April 1841 Tunis.
The 7th son James Moring Green Vice Consul in Naples was a well known artist but I had not heard that EFG was also an artist. The Green family were prominent in The Levant Co: & the Consular Service receiving many decorations.
Vesta
Hi Inge,
This is the reply from Vesta from the other topic, not sure if you had seem it
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=451941.msg5788668#msg5788668
Regards
Sarah
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Hello, I have since found out many more details, but there is no trace of the second child, Ellen who was born in London in 1843. In 1847, she and her older sister are mentioned is their grandfather Joseph Stilon's will, and in 1851 both are living or staying with their aunt, Melita Mends nee Stilon in Alverstoke. Their mother, Catherine Colonna nee Stilon, died in London in 1845, and Melita Jane died in 1854, but so far nothing has emerged regarding Ellen's fate. Information on family tree I have says she and her sister died of consumption as a children, but this isn't necessarily completely correct. As for Edward Frederick Green, he exhibited many times at the Royal Academy and the British Institution, so he was definitely an artist. One of his portraits (of a young man) is in the possession of the Art Gallery of the Guildhall.
I don't know if I should give up on gaining more information about Ellen's life or death.
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I read the various notes about Edward Frederick Green with interest - I'm compiling a dictionary of students at the Royal Academy of Arts in London c.1769-1830, and can confirm that EFG was a student at the RA, rather successfully so.
His name appears in the records as Frederick Edward Green / E.F. Green
He was admitted as a probationary student, 11 January 1822, and registered as a full student 4 April 1822, aged 21, painting - this confirms the birth date (clearly not the 1767 given in some sources). He was admitted to the life drawing school on 29 November 1822, and won a Silver medal in 1826, for a copy made in the painting school.
From the posts, I take it that his father, John Green, was a Levant merchant, and that Green lived largely in Malta and was vice-consul at Tunis. It would be great to be able to confirm his death date - I had identified him with the Edward F. Green 'artist' who was a visitor in Kent in the 1861 census, stated to be 60, but unmarried.
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If someone is still interested, I have info about the Stilon family in Malta.