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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Carlow => Topic started by: mauler on Wednesday 21 October 15 21:27 BST (UK)

Title: Margaret Cullen
Post by: mauler on Wednesday 21 October 15 21:27 BST (UK)
Any one any info on Margaret Cullen daughter of Andrew Cullen and Jane Nee Butler Ma Cullen from Tullow , Tullowbeg, Tullowphelim, Co Carlow.

I have her on 1911  census Ireland and birth certificate 1905, trail dries up after that.

Andy
Title: Re: Margaret Cullen
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 21 October 15 21:35 BST (UK)
Details? it helps us from having to search for information you've already found so please post link to census records and any other information you know.
Title: Re: Margaret Cullen
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 21 October 15 21:56 BST (UK)
You don't mention if you have any info. on her parent's after 1911?

Annie

ADDED........The reason I mention this is because Margaret would have been old enough to leave home for work later in 1920's or earlier?
Title: Re: Margaret Cullen
Post by: mauler on Wednesday 21 October 15 22:05 BST (UK)
Hi Annie,

Both her parents are deceased and interred in Mullawn in Tullow with other siblings in St Patricks also in Tullow.

Margaret was 6 in 1911 she is my grandmother but there ends info on her my mother Elizabeth reared as her aunts sister and much confusion there after as to who is who wed not wed etc nothing reliable, oops a 3 day stay in Mountjoy  Jail in 1922 that record on find my past blank before this date and blanker still afterwards.
Andy
Title: Re: Margaret Cullen
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 21 October 15 22:46 BST (UK)
Hi Annie,

Both her parents are deceased and interred in Mullawn in Tullow with other siblings in St Patricks also in Tullow.

Margaret was 6 in 1911 she is my grandmother but there ends info on her my mother Elizabeth reared as her aunts sister and much confusion there after as to who is who wed not wed etc nothing reliable, oops a 3 day stay in Mountjoy  Jail in 1922 that record on find my past blank before this date and blanker still afterwards.
Andy

Sorry Andy but your talking in riddles here, sentences with no full stops....confusing.

Margaret's parents are deceased...........when did they die & who were the informants?

Your mother Elizabeth, when & where was she born as her mother Margaret must have been alive & well in that year & place?

How old was your mother when she went to live with her aunt & what was known about Margaret & the reason for this at the time?

Can you tell us about the jail scenario & where Mountjoy is please? EDIT....I see it's in Dublin.

Not sure of geography & how far Dublin is from Tullow?

You need to try & put pieces of the jigsaw together to enable people to help you.

Annie
Title: Re: Margaret Cullen
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 21 October 15 22:55 BST (UK)
Yes, very hard to follow and I'm still waiting for census link or other concrete facts so wish you luck in finding more information.
Title: Re: Margaret Cullen
Post by: conahy calling on Wednesday 21 October 15 23:05 BST (UK)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Carlow/Tullow_Urban/Tullowbeg_Street/313196/

1911 census link   Maggie age 6
Title: Re: Margaret Cullen
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 21 October 15 23:09 BST (UK)
Thanks for posting the census link I asked for earlier but seems OP already asked us for information on this Margaret Cullen in 2013- 2 pages!

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=664912.msg5101956#msg5101956
Title: Re: Margaret Cullen
Post by: conahy calling on Wednesday 21 October 15 23:27 BST (UK)
Birth record Margaret Cullen from Irish genealogy Civil Records.
Born                  2nd Sept 1905
Mother                Butler
Reg Area            Carlow

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gc4/

Title: Re: Margaret Cullen
Post by: mauler on Thursday 22 October 15 15:53 BST (UK)
Annie,
Thank you for your help, re full stops etc my teacher told me the same in school.

My mother Elizabeth born of Margaret Cullen,. details of Margaret as noted by conahy
year of birth of Elizabeth unknown, pure speculation, could have being 1931 even 1933 as no birth certificate exists in England for her. She used to tell us her documents went up in the blitz, a big white fib.
Her dad is supposed to be one Anthony Manzie or Maurie , another big one me thinks.
Elizabeth went to school in Tullow and was confirmed.
Margaret age 18, birth year 1905, Residence Cottage view Tullow, year 1923, date 25 Aug 1923, role prisoner, offence larceny by force, prison Mountjoy, county Dublin,father Andrew Cullen same address,
register title,
Mountjoy Prison General Register Female 1921- 1927 .

Andy
Title: Re: Margaret Cullen
Post by: taramcdsmall on Thursday 22 October 15 16:18 BST (UK)
Hi There Andy

Do you have an area in England where your Mum was born ?

Tara
Title: Re: Margaret Cullen
Post by: taramcdsmall on Thursday 22 October 15 16:20 BST (UK)
Have you gone through these Anthonys ?

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gc7/

Tara
Title: Re: Margaret Cullen
Post by: taramcdsmall on Thursday 22 October 15 16:50 BST (UK)
Presuming that Margaret and Anthony didn't marry then your Mum could have been registered as a Cullen.

That's going to be tricky as you're not even sure of a year but here are a few possibilites from around the timeline . . .

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVQ7-Q74W

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QV3J-NVWW

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVQW-GH25

Tara
Title: Re: Margaret Cullen
Post by: mauler on Thursday 22 October 15 19:53 BST (UK)
I have Margaret's Birth cert, purchased from GRO Dublin it matches what you have.
Also have copy of national census.
Have documentation on her parents, grand parents and all siblings all deceased.
some of her siblings children knew nothing of her, a bit of a black sheep?

My mother and one of her aunts considered themselves as sisters and that is what I thought for years.

Would just like to know what happened to her after 1923, did she emigrate etc , where is she buried?
Would also like to know where my mother was born, not England as told to me or she would be traceable.
Someday I might find out, if not sure I am no worse off.

I know there are Cullen trees online but while Margaret's siblings and parents are mentioned, no Margaret.
Thank you all for your time, help and replies very kind of you.

Something might pop up in the future.

Regards
Andy

Title: Re: Margaret Cullen
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 22 October 15 20:46 BST (UK)
Mmmmm,

I wonder if Margaret reverted to her mother's maiden name of Butler to avoid detection?

Annie
Title: Re: Margaret Cullen
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 22 October 15 20:50 BST (UK)
I meant to add that I was drawn to this thread as I am descended from Cullen's but there seems no link with mine.

Annie
Title: Re: Margaret Cullen
Post by: taramcdsmall on Thursday 22 October 15 20:59 BST (UK)
Hi Andy

Cases like this are usually too hard to work out as there would be a lot of untruths and subterfuge.

Sometimes the truth comes out and can be unsettling.

I suppose only Margaret knew the truth.

Anything else would be guesswork at best.

Tara
Title: Re: Margaret Cullen
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 22 October 15 21:41 BST (UK)
My mother Elizabeth born of Margaret Cullen,. details of Margaret as noted by conahy
year of birth of Elizabeth unknown, pure speculation, could have being 1931 even 1933 as no birth certificate exists in England for her.
register title,
Mountjoy Prison General Register Female 1921- 1927 .

Is there a way you can find out the release date from prison?

Is it possible you need to allow for your mother Elizabeth to have been born prior to when she said she was born/thought she was born?

I wonder if she was actually born in the Prison?

Annie

ADDED....Do you recall any mention of an area in England mentioned at anytime?