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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: GingerVicky on Wednesday 28 October 15 17:49 GMT (UK)
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Hi there,
I am researching my Whitehead family who I believe may be from Cheshire. So far I have a James Whitehead who was born 1764 Stockport and married Ellen Roper. He was son of James Whitehead and Margaret. That James I believe was born 1731 Stockport to James and Elizabeth. I found a marriage for James Whitehead and Elizabeth Daniel for 1729 Wilmslow Cheshire which seems to fit. I am trying to find a birth for this James but am getting lost in a sea of James Whitehead's. Unfortunatly there seems to be a lot around. I found 4 possibilities but they are all about an hour away.
Is there any way I can find out when he was born and to who so I can get further back or am I just asking too much for that era with a fairly common name like Whitehead.
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Vicky
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Hello Vicky
Have you looked at any wills, not just for Whiteheads but for families they married into? Sometimes you can find an incredible amount of info that will help cement - or upset! - a family tree, like married names of dtrs and sisters, cousins (though beware, that term can be used interchangeably with nieces/nephews etc), locations of individuals, names of properties etc etc. It might involve looking in turn into those relatives' wills etc in the hunt for clues (don't even necessarily ignore 'kinsmen' or apparently unrelated trustees/execs). There will be dead ends and wrong turns, but believe me it's worth the effort.
If you haven't already come across it, there's a comprehensive index of Cheshire wills on the CRO website -
http://archivedatabases.cheshire.gov.uk/RecordOfficeWillEPayments/search.aspx (http://archivedatabases.cheshire.gov.uk/RecordOfficeWillEPayments/search.aspx)
It doesn't do vague or approximate searches on surnames: eg searching on surname Daniel will not also find Danyel, but searching Dan on the other hand will find both Daniel as well as Danyel and also surnames containing the syllable dan anywhere within.
You can order copies of wills from CRO, but a sub to FindMyPast might be a cost effective option as it includes access to images of the wills as well as Cheshire parish records. The wills index on FindMyPast has shortcomings, but used in conjunction with the CRO index it's possible to refine your searches to something reasonably manageable.
Happy hunting
Birtle
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On familysearch there is also a baptism in Wilmslow (from parish registers) of a James Whitehead 21 April 1734, parents James and Elizabeth so if your James was born Stockport this looks like a different family.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F7HT-Z9Q
Shirl
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When looking at Church records you need to look at the prime source, the Parish registers.
I have looked on line and think the 1764 BAPTISM is Bishops Transcripts ( BT's) as the writing on the page looks regimented as if it has been copied. If this is the case then it is only the basic information, you may find on the original a trade which will assist in searching for your family.
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Cheshire Parish Registers for St Mary only show that James was the son of James and Margaret of Stockport.
There are more possible baptisms for children to James and Margaret at St Mary,
Fanny 1762,Betty 1766 and Margaret 1770 none give anything more than parents names and residence.
Vicky,
Could you please come back and tell us how you have linked these family's together ?
Do you for instance have the marriage of James and Margaret? I can't see one in Cheshire.
If I have the correct record then the Marriage Bonds for Cheshire show James was a Dyer and Ellen Roper was a widow when they married in 1785 the oath declared in Wigan. Is that correct?
If you have any more info it might help us to help you a little bit more :)
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Hi there, Thanks for all your help. I admit there is a little guess work as I'm not sure how else to work it all out.
What I know for sure is that my ancestor James Whitehead was born in 1764 and was married to Ellen, also born around 1764. I know their rough birth dates from their burials in St pancras, London. I have looked for marriages around London but have not found any suitable. From James' will I know that he was a stone mason and had two brothers John and William who were also in the business.
I am not entirely that James and Ellen Roper are the ones but have been going on that. I then connected James to his parents James and Margaret as it was the same area and birth date as the marriage. They also had a son William which would tie in with him having a brother William. I think William was born around 1770 according to his burial in London. But I haven't found the brother John yet so not a perfect match.
If anyone has any better suggestions I would much appreciate your help. I feel like its a bit of guesswork as its difficult to know where James and Ellen came from.
Thanks
Vicky
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Hello Vicky,
I think I would forget James and Margaret for now and concentrate on James and Ellen as you seem to be sure that they are your ancestors. :)
James and Ellen must have had children, one of them your ancestor. Have you thoroughly researched him/her and any other children born to them?
Do you know where said children were born or baptised, married and died?
Any one of these could give you valuable clues that will enable you to go back a step with more confidence. :)
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I know that James and Ellen (also known as Ellenor) had several sons - one being Thomas (my ancestor) - all born in St Marylebone. They all seemed to then stay in that area. I have traced most of them I think. But James and Ellen's origins still remains a mystery.
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Vicky, Can you give us the last census reference you have for this family or enough information that we can find them on the census.....I presume this will be 1841.
Stone mason s were in demand and as such your ancestor could have been a journeyman
Answered my own question
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=731806.18
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James died before the 1841 census. So the only records I have of him are from his will which states that he was a stone mason and lists the sons he had. someone else found that for me so I don't have a reference for it.
This is baptism for Thomas WHitehead -
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3AThomas~%20%2Bsurname%3AWhitehead~%20%2Bbirth_place%3A%22ST%20marylebone%22~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1790-1820~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3Ajames~%20%2Bmother_givenname%3AEllenor~
and other children Edward and Henry:
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3AWhitehead~%20%2Bbirth_place%3A%22ST%20marylebone%22~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1790-1820~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3Ajames~%20%2Bfather_surname%3AWhitehead~%20%2Bmother_givenname%3AEllenor~
There were other children too.
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That other link you put to roots chat referred to his grandson James William Whitehead born in 1821. This James Whitehead was born 1764
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Hi Vicky,
Not getting anywhere fast with this are we :(
This morning I did a search using first names only James/Ellenor without any place names.
I used Ellenor not Ellen thinking that she was likely to use her full name, I couldn't see anything that looked even remotely possible :(
I have found Edward and if I'm right he died in 1830.
Henry is also on the census but I'm sure you have already researched both of them.
I have found a death/ burial record for Ellenor in 1827 at the age of 64 but the only death record that I can see for a James Whitehead was in 1821 at the age of 40 and I can't see a will for him.
Is that the same as the info you have?
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I know its a tough one. According to his will I have James Whitehead as dying in 1814 St Pancras.
Son Edward left a will 1830 which I don't have a copy of. in st pancras again. Thomas died 1859 Lambeth. I did get his will but no information to help
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Yes, I'm getting the dates mixed up, looking at too many Whitehead records I think ???
I can see a James died 22 Oct 1813 St Pancras and a will 21 July 1814 St Pancras which I'm presuming is the same one.
If the burial record for Eleanor Whitehead 3 Jan 1827 aged 64 St Pancras is correct I would have expected to see her mentioned in James' will.
Do you know if she was?
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Well yes he does mention Ellen,so that's a bonus ;)
I will read through it, not that I'm expecting to find anything that you haven't, but you never know.
I'm going out now but will look at it later.
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Thank you for your help. I really appreciate it.
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I have looked at your WHITEHEAD family and note that THOMAS b 18 Jan 1798 was an Architect who married
1) Jane Sarah HAND m 5 March 1820, they had 4 children James Wm 1821/Benjamin 1823 /Arabella 1825 / Harriett 1827 /
Jane died 7 June 1835
2) Harriett WHITE m 5 Nov 1837 they appear to have had 6 children.
Thomas b 1798 was baptised as the child of James & Ellenor as were brothers Edward b1792b/Henry b1804
Ellenor WHITEHEAD nee? b circa 1762 bu 3 Jan 1827 St Pancras
James Whitehead
b abt 1764
buried 22 Oct 1813 Old St Pancras, St Pancras, England
There are numerous James WHITEHEAD b in the period 17 62 - 1766 in Middlesex that could be James's!
Further research into the family needs to be undertaken, unless you can view the originasl records on line, you need to obtain these.
Digitalising for on line, is an ongoing process and not all records have yet been done. so it may be a case of back burner and review later
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Henry b 1804 was in St Marylebone Workhouse on 5 November 1844, there is a note to suggest that he be removed to Pancras as soon as able, Pancras assuming responsibility for him as his home parish, therefore this maybe an area you need to look for your family in!
He may have married Mary KELLY 1833 however without seeing the original record I cannot confirm
Henry is a stone mason and can be found on the 1851 census HO107 1702 217 60
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Thank you for all that. I didn't know what happened to Henry. That is interesting
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Hi Vicky,
Having had a look at James' will there is nothing more that I can see other than the details you already have. :'(
The will for Edward is on Ancestry, he made it two weeks before his death and the tone of the will indicates that knew he hadn't long to live.
The executors are his cousin Charles Whitehead Esq and Thomas White Timber Merchant.
His estate to be divided between his three children Sarah, Mary Ann and Edward when they reach the age of twenty one years.
Witnessed by Thomas Whitehead and James ? think surname is Sandreell or something like that
Hope this doesn't add more confusion to the mix. ::)
It's very frustrating and I do feel for you but we seem to be going round in circles and not getting you back to what your looking for so I'm wondering if you would perhaps get more help with this on one of the London boards. There will be plenty of members on those boards who know the locality and may have records and registers not yet on line and I do think that they will be much better placed to help you. :(
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Thank you for all your help. I appreciate it. The problem is there are just too many James whiteheads. I did ask the London board and that's when someone came up with the James and Ellenin Cheshire but without proof iit'sno more than guesguesswork.
But thanks anyway x
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Having looked I would stick with London area,