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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: cathieee on Friday 06 November 15 22:46 GMT (UK)
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hi i was wondering if anyone could help
my great x3 grandparents robert and dorothy bullen (on marriage record he s down as robert bullin)
i can find them living in liverpool in the 1841 census and i can find dorothy living with her son in the 1861 census ,but i cant find either of them on the 1851 census ,i know robert died in 1855 so they were both alive in 1851 ,i ve looked up all obscure spellings of the name ,but cant find them anywhere, why would this be ??? ,thanks cathie :)
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Hi
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so will ask the moderator to move it to the Lancashire board
You haven't given any information to help us trace them - birthyears/birthplaces/childrens names etc etc
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat, could this be 1841 census?
Robt Bullen 50
Dorothy 48
Henry 8
Plus others at Neal Buildings, Liverpool
Census ref HO107/562/ 9/7 / 7
In 1851 on my site, Doratha Ballin 50 b Liverpool Residing at School Lane, Liverpool
Census ref HO107/2180/426/14
Keyboard86
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Hi
On my site in 1851 they are transcribed as
Robert BALLIN (50) and Dorrett BALLIN(50), plus Henry 12
Class: HO107, Piece 2180, Folio 426, Page 14.
claire
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hi ,sorry ,but i cant find out how you post a new thread ,i put in robert bullen and ticked lancashire resources and look up ,but it just said "did you mean robbert bull" which i did nt ??
im not new to this site but have nt been on for a while ,so i ve forgotten how to post??
i ll just give the info you asked for here ,sorry to be a pain
robert bullen born 1792 lancashire ,i only know his birth through the 1841 census and his marriage cert says -robert bullin married dorothy drisdale (drysdale) widow she was born dorothy smith in 1792/3 - married 14/12/1818 at st mary s ,walton on the hill liverpool
i have them living at neal buildings liverpool on the 1841 census and i have dorothy living with son henry bullen in the 1861 census ,robert died in 1855 ,but i can find either of them on the 1851 census ,they were both still alive and i ve tried lots of name varients and done it for the whole country ??
if you could pass this info over to the right board i d be most grateful ,thanks cathie
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hi again
sorry but only after posting did i see the 2 other replies to my post ,thank you both ,also could i just ask ,where did you find them with those strange name interpretations ?? :)
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hi
just one last one ,i ve put both doratha ballin and dorrett ballin into find my past search and both have come up with no results ??
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hi sorry again ,i ve found it ,as well as the mad spelling their ages are totally wrong ,thats why they were nt coming up ,as i said they were married in 1818 ,but dorothy was married in 1814 to a john drisdale a mariner ,and as you can see she would have only been 12 years old if she had been born in 1802 ,all the other census s have them down as 8 years older than on this one ,and only 2/3 years younger on the 1841 census ,mystery solved ,thanks again ,but i would still like my message forwarded to the right board as i cant find roberts bapt record
thanks again all x
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Hi
It may get a little more difficult, on one Robert Bullen burial record it states he was 47 years old. Born c1808 ~ This man would have only been about 10 when they married ???
claire
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Hi Cathieee
May have found something, in the catholic records,
Liverpool, St Marys
**JANE Bullen born 20 Oct 1819, bapt. 9 Nov 1819, daug of Robert and Dorothy, sponsor: Catherine Bell.
ELIZABETH Bullen born 31 Oct 1830, bapt. 7 Nov 1830 " " " ", sponsors: James and Helen Aaron
HENRY Bullen born 23 Aug 1832, bapt. 2 Sep 1832 son of " " ", sponsors: James and Helen Haran
EDITED: **Jane Bullen married William Eggers a German cigarmaker in 1839, Drysdale relatives were witnesses John and Matilda, same two witnessed Henry's marriage in 1854
This led me to this record, which could be him (Robert)
Liverpool, St Peters Priory (catholic)
20 October 1793 ~ Robt. son of Hugh and Jane Bullen. Sponsors: John Copple and Mm Molyneaux
Hugh Bullen and Jane Tarleton both of Liverpool , he a tobacconist, she was a minor, married by licence on 13 May 1792 St Nicholas Church. Witnesses: Richard and Mary Tarleton and John Wright
Both signed register.
claire
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Before doing any more research please can you tell us how you identified the right Robert Bullen? There are rather a lot of them living in the Ormskirk / Liverpool area
eg
There is a Robert Bullen baptism son of Robert & Mary baptised 1 Jan 1809 - which would fit with the 1855 death
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Robert son of John & Betty baptised 1805
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Robert son of Robrt & Betty baptised 1794
+ .............
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Hi
On my site in 1851 they are transcribed as
Robert BALLIN (50) and Dorrett BALLIN(50), plus Henry 12
Class: HO107, Piece 2180, Folio 426, Page 14.
claire
I think Henry's age has been mistranscribed. It looks more like 18 on the image & his occupation is the same as in 1861
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Hi
Yes the age is wrong, Henry is in his late twenties on the 1861 census and 22 when he marries in 1854, with his wife and mother.
There are four burials between 1851 when Robert last appeared on the census and 1861 when Dorothy is a widow, I can eliminate 3, but cant find a burial for the one remaining.
claire
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Definitely some Catholic angle, Henry was buried a Catholic, found two of his children baptized in the faith.
From FreeBMD there are 4 possible deaths in Liverpool for dad ~ Robert, three can be ruled out but I can't find a burial for the third
Robert Bullen
1) Registered Liverpool JUNE 1855 ~ this R Bullen was 47 years old and committed suicide and a bailiff in the County Court ~ RULED OUT would only be 10 years old at marriage.
2) Registered Liverpool SEPT 1855 ~
3) Registered Liverpool SEPT 1856 ~ this was an infant aged 0, buried 30 Aug 1856 ~ RULED OUT
4) Registered Liverpool DEC. 1860 ~ this man was 56 years old, and a brewer in the employ of Bent & Co. for 21 years, buried 31 Oct 1860 Ormskirk which would fit the 1805 birth. ~ Possibly RULED OUT ~ his age would have been 13 at marriage (1818)
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hi ,i already have a death cert for him died 1855 aged 57 :)
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hi
thanks so much for helping all ,i had looked into the hugh bullen,jane tarleton parentage from someones wikki tree ,but could nt find an actual bapt cert for him ,oh i wish they d have to have put their parents names down on marriage certs ,it would have made life so much easier >:(
there is also this record
Baptism: 14 Sep 1794 St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England
Robert Bullen - Son of Robert Bullen & Betty
Register: Baptisms 1794 - 1812, Page 3, Entry 18
Source: LDS Film 1849663
though on the 1851 census it does say he was born lancashire liverpool ,not having seen this census previously ,i d only seen the 1841 census of him and on that it just says ,birth place lancashire for him ,so with this added info do you think its safe to say that hugh and jane are his parents ??
it would mean that my roberts oldest sister was named after her mother ??
all the bullen s going back a hundred years or so were all also catholics ??
thanks again ..cathie :D
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this is his marriage cert btw
Marriage: 14 Dec 1818 St Mary, Walton on the Hill, Lancashire, England
Robert Bullin - (X), Shoe Maker, This Parish
Dorothy Drisdale - (X), Widow, This Parish
Witness: James Lightburn; Edwd. Musker
Married by Banns by: Thomas Moss Vicar
Register: Marriages 1813 - 1823, Page 101, Entry 303
Source: LDS Film 1647985
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it also says shoemaker on the 1841 census
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Jan's marriage - note the witnesses
Marriage: 24 Nov 1839 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
William Eggers - Full, Cigar Maker, Widower, School Lane
Jane Bullen - Minor, Spinster, School Lane
Groom's Father: Frederick William Eggers, Bricklayer
Bride's Father: Robert Bullen, Shoe Maker
Witness: John Drysdale; Matilda Drysdale, (X)
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hi
yes thats the oldest daughters wedding cert ,john drysade being her half brother from her mum dorothys first marriage to john drydale 1814 and his wife matilda ,her husband william eggers was a cigar maker though ,not a brick layer ,i think this is probs how she would have met him ,maybe from with him doing business with her dad robert
thanks anyway :)
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sorry just noticed its his father that s the brick layer ,sorry my mistake :/
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hi, its been a while since i ve been on this thread, im still searching and i ve waisted loads of time looking into the wrong family
i know hugh bullin/bullen married jane tarleton or at least a jane tarleton, but i ve been looking into what i ve just discovered was a very prominent tarleton family, mayor of liverpool, politics, slavetrade, educated in london, lived in castles, a man called banastre tarleton etc
there was a jane tarleton born 1777 st george liverpool from the above family, but she cant surely be the one to marry my hugh bullen ?
my hugh bullen was a tobacconist he married a jane tarleton at st nicolas c of e 13/5/1792 liverpool, sponsors, john wright and richard and mary tarleton, i can only find the one birth for a jane tarleton, also why if they married in c of e church would they re children be baptised catholics ??
im very confused, as looking on ancestry family trees they all have this jane as being from the well to do family, but i found my way onto a site called stirnet and the jane tarleton from the above family married a john boycott of rudge in 1805
and one last also, their son robert bullen, shoe maker and his wife dorothy drisdale cant write on their marriage cert, but hugh and jane can, is nt that a bit odd ??
any help please, my head hurts ???
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between 1754 and 1837, under the terms of Lord Hardwicke’s Marriage Act, it was a legal requirement to marry in the Church of England. Even after that if it was a mixed marriage couples would often have a ceremony in both the RC & CofE churches so that both religions recognised the marriage as lawful. The bride in both cases would be married in her maiden name but with different sponsors/witnesses to the marriage
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HI are RC records for marriage on line i ve only seen C of E ??
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HI are RC records for marriage on line i ve only seen C of E ??
it depends where and when you are looking for. There are some Liverpool
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1750 s onwards, i ve seen RC baptisms, but never any marriages are they on ancestry ??
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see my reply #22 above about Hardwick's Act which explains why you will not find RC marriages between 1754 and 1837. After 1837 there are some Liverpool ones on Ancestry