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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Longford => Topic started by: Gallagher-Doohan on Wednesday 11 November 15 12:49 GMT (UK)

Title: Torboy & Lugmore
Post by: Gallagher-Doohan on Wednesday 11 November 15 12:49 GMT (UK)
Today's Google maps show a place called Lugmore on land in Torboy once held by James Lennon at the time of Griffith's valuation. The map shows Lugmore where the Lennon home and farm outbuildings once were with the Lugmore name attached to them.  However, there is no Lugmore in Longford listed in Sean Ruad's Irish Atlas or in the 1901 or 1911 Irish censuses.  If I search for Lugmore in the Google maps, nothing comes up.  A Google search for Lugmore in Longford shows nothing.  No one speaks nostalgically about Lugmore.  If there is someone who knows the background of Lugmore and how it came to be, I would appreciate hearing it.  Do Lennon descendants still live there?  Thank you for any help you can give me. 
Title: Re: Torboy & Lugmore
Post by: Maggsie on Wednesday 11 November 15 15:03 GMT (UK)
Hi
If you type in on google Torboy county Longford
you will get the townland as it is today.
when you go to the census the DED where the census is sorted is Doory, which is like the polling area, Torboy is listed by the Lennon family.
If you pick up this in the 1911 census, click on the
"House and Buildings return" choice and zoom in on the top line you will see it comes under Moydow, Ballymahon and the Parish is TAGHSHEENOD.
In Griffiths Valuation James Lennon is listed as being in TAGHSHEENOD .
If you type in TAGHSHEENOD  map      on google
zoom in slightly you will see a place on the left called Keenagh, this is where the Church was/is.
I only know the area as we used to go to a festival there every year until 2011.

The info between, the Tithe, Griffiths and census records use Barony, Parish, Union and town land names and you have to use a map to pin point the actual area between the records. 
Depending on where you like a town land is like a Street, Road, Via, Weg  in our towns.
I hope this has helped.
Maggsie
Title: Re: Torboy & Lugmore
Post by: Gallagher-Doohan on Wednesday 11 November 15 15:26 GMT (UK)
Thank you for the information, Maggie.  I have the Lennon information already, but my question is about the name Lugmore, which seems new.  It is where the home and outbuildings of James Lennon were located in the Griffith map.  The Lennons also had a home and a number of farming outbuildings in the 1901 and 1902 censuses.  All of these were located in Torboy.  Now, those same Torboy buildings are labeled Lugmore on Google maps.  Where did that name come from?  It is confusing a descendant who has been to the Lennon ancestral home with her mother who was born there.  She is ruling out the cluster of buildings now labeled Lugmore as the location she remembers visiting just because of the name.  The Google camera car did not go up that long driveway so we cannot see the buildings themselves.  She recalls a two-story home. 

I do have the GPS location of the ringfort on the property.  It shows up on the Griffith map and today's Google satellite view. 

I will pass on your information to the Lennon granddaughter.  Thanks again. 
Title: Re: Torboy & Lugmore
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 11 November 15 15:47 GMT (UK)
3rd attempt posting this, fingers crossed.
The name means Great Hollow, like here http://www.logainm.ie/en/30008
Is there a hollow in the area.

Eircode gives Torboy Moydow as the address for those houses.
Title: Re: Torboy & Lugmore
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 11 November 15 15:49 GMT (UK)
N39 EY15
https://finder.eircode.ie/#/
Title: Re: Torboy & Lugmore
Post by: Gallagher-Doohan on Wednesday 11 November 15 16:06 GMT (UK)
Sinann, 

Thank you for the meaning of the name.  That's interesting.  Perhaps there is a hollow in the area.  I'm 99% sure that the buildings are her family's and that they are in Torboy.  Even a search for Torboy brings up an outline of Torboy, but it shows that Lugmore inside with the name is written as a place, not as a feature of the topography.  This is the first time Google maps has confused an issue. I wish I could just white out that name.   :)
Title: Re: Torboy & Lugmore
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 11 November 15 16:27 GMT (UK)
It's not unusual for Google maps to have errors, perhaps the Ordnance Survey would put the family at their ease.
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/

Use the search by county, Longford than by townland.
Title: Re: Torboy & Lugmore
Post by: Gallagher-Doohan on Wednesday 11 November 15 16:59 GMT (UK)
Unfortunately, it didn't, but maybe your comment that Google does have errors might.  Unless someone from Torboy or the Torboy area has new information, I'm sure that's the truth too. 

It can be hard for someone who has been to an ancestral home years ago and taken photos to reconcile anything that doesn't fit the memory and photographic evidence.  Lugmore's in the way right now.  She's right to be sure that her family didn't come from Lugmore.  We're good with the fairy fort though. 

Google goofed! 

I have to rake leaves this afternoon.  If there are any new postings, I'll catch up on them later.  Thanks to all. 
Title: Re: Torboy & Lugmore
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 11 November 15 18:10 GMT (UK)
Today's Google maps show a place called Lugmore on land in Torboy once held by James Lennon at the time of Griffith's valuation. The map shows Lugmore where the Lennon home and farm outbuildings once were with the Lugmore name attached to them.  However, there is no Lugmore in Longford listed in Sean Ruad's Irish Atlas or in the 1901 or 1911 Irish censuses.  If I search for Lugmore in the Google maps, nothing comes up.  A Google search for Lugmore in Longford shows nothing.  No one speaks nostalgically about Lugmore.  If there is someone who knows the background of Lugmore and how it came to be, I would appreciate hearing it.  Do Lennon descendants still live there?  Thank you for any help you can give me.

If you posted the link you were looking at, so others can see what you were looking at then we all could discuss what we are all looking at...
Title: Re: Torboy & Lugmore
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 11 November 15 18:16 GMT (UK)
https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Lugmore,+Co.+Longford/@53.6302919,-7.7668048,15z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x485dcdbb32bab839:0x87d4d75cccdd37bb
Title: Re: Torboy & Lugmore
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 11 November 15 18:22 GMT (UK)
He's looking at this
https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Torboy,+Co.+Longford/@53.6317361,-7.7749124,15z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x485dcda403f40c7b:0xcff0902007b9602e

When you look up James Lennon Torboy in GV and use the slider to the modern map, you can see the Lugmore name the same way.
Title: Re: Torboy & Lugmore
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 11 November 15 18:26 GMT (UK)
The type face on Lugmore is different from the names of the townlands, they are all capitals and it has a capital at the start than lower case.


that could be significant
Title: Re: Torboy & Lugmore
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 11 November 15 19:07 GMT (UK)
There are quite a lot of places with this mixed typeface, which I couldn't get a result for googling, I think they are the names people have given their homes.
So I had a look at a place I'm familiar with

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ggp/

See Barretstown and BARRETSTOWN the first is a house the second is the townland
also the various names beginning MORRISTOWN are townlands while Morristown Lattin is a house.

That's my theory anyway..........
Title: Re: Torboy & Lugmore
Post by: Gallagher-Doohan on Wednesday 11 November 15 22:08 GMT (UK)
Thanks to everyone who posted.  Sinann, you appear to be on to something.  I checked the map for places I'm familiar with also.  I didn't find the name of the house for every one, but I did see two of them.  The house names are not similar to the village names either.  This explanation just might fly. I deeply appreciate everyone's willingness to help.   
Title: Re: Torboy & Lugmore
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 12 November 15 13:44 GMT (UK)
I think, looking at Google maps for Torboy, that Lugmore is merely part of the townland of Torboy that lies up that lane (in Northern Ireland we call such a cluster of houses a clachan, not sure if there would be a local word for it in Longford). The satellite view shows the dwellings.
Title: Re: Torboy & Lugmore
Post by: Gallagher-Doohan on Thursday 12 November 15 13:54 GMT (UK)
Exactly! And that supports Sinann's theory that the name is that given to a house.  Thanks for the additional observation. 
Title: Re: Torboy & Lugmore
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 12 November 15 14:27 GMT (UK)
Sorry if I didn't make myself clear enough earlier. I believe that Lugmore is the name for the cluster of houses up that lane and not the name of one particular property.

Although a townland is the smallest administrative division, within a townland there are often descriptive names for sections of that townland. For example, in our townland the roadside houses were known as G-- Hill, the clachan behind us was D-- Hill with Bog-- next to them, etc.
On official forms the townland name would mostly be given but other times the 'address' varied with both place names being used in church records (including marriage register), newspaper reports & announcements, letters, and so on.
Title: Re: Torboy & Lugmore
Post by: Gallagher-Doohan on Thursday 12 November 15 15:34 GMT (UK)
Yes, and I've seen some of what you're explaining in other places.  However, the heart of the question is whether or not Lugmore is a different townland than Torboy.  Your explanation helps clarify the issue because whether Lugmore is one house or a cluster, it's still part of Torboy, not a different townland.  You've giving me a different route to the same answer.  Many thanks.   

Title: Re: Torboy & Lugmore
Post by: Marea McCarthy on Monday 08 May 17 20:00 BST (UK)
I just came across this post but if memory serves the hollow is in the middle of the fairy fort. I'm related do you mind me asking how you are related?
Title: Re: Torboy & Lugmore
Post by: Gallagher-Doohan on Monday 08 May 17 21:54 BST (UK)
Hello, Marea. 
     Not at all.  My sister-in-law is a great-granddaughter of the James and Ellen Lennon who appear in the 1901 census through their son James.  I've been compiling a family history for her family, children and grandchildren.  At the time I wrote this message, I was creating a book about their grandchildren's twelve U.S. immigrant ancestors, and wherever I could, I was adding the GPS locations of birth for each.  My sister-in-law and her sister had taken their mother back to Torboy for a visit with her remaining siblings so they knew the area, but they couldn't be sure of the specific location of the home.  I ended up using the GPS location of the fairy fort in the book.  I figured that even if place names were changed, they or their descendants would be able to find the place. 
    Which of the children of James and Ellen Lennon are you descended from?  They had about ten who survived to adulthood.  In case you are not aware of the RootsChat policy, once you've posted two more times, we can send private messages to each other.  It would give us a chance to communicate additional information that would violate privacy in a public setting. 
     Thanks for this first posting.  Welcome aboard. 
Title: Re: Torboy & Lugmore
Post by: Tomas on Thursday 26 July 18 22:46 BST (UK)
Hi im one of the lennons from torboy, fell free to ask anything