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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: salt on Friday 13 November 15 10:31 GMT (UK)
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Hello. I'm looking for the birth/baptism and marriage of Robert Molineux (Molineau). He was born c 1849 in Salford and married Ellen? pre 1870. Censuses show the family living in Oldfield Rd, Salford, from 1891 as a newsagent. Sources checked include FreeBMD,FreeReg, FamilySearch, FindMyPast, Lancashire Parish Clerks Online. Any sightings appreciated.
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Do you have the 1871:
Robert Muleneanx, 23, Carter
Ellen Muleneanx, 21
Mary Ann Frances Muleneanx, 3 Months
All born Salford
RG10/4024/6/5
I think you really need a Childs B/C for Ellens maiden name
March 1871
Molyneux, Mary Ann F, Salford, 8d 114
Trish :)
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Many thanks Trish. I have all the other censuses (censi?) and I've been looking for this one, and suspected the many variants of the surname would be the problem.
Salt
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Hello again Trish
The reason I couldn't find this family on FindMyPast is that the name has been transcribed as Martineaux! Its a very faint image, so I'm not surprised. Without your help I wouldn't have found it at all.
Salt
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Might be worth checking this out for the marriage BUT it is transcribed as Marlow so could be another person entirely! It's the right time frame there is an Ellen Ann same page. Pity Lancs OPC doesn't have the mother's maiden name on the baptism of their first child Mary Ann and the birth is also on Lancs BMD - no mother's maiden name there either!
Bit of a long shot but worth a try!
Shirl
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl?start=1870&end=1870&sq=2&eq=2&type=Marriages&vol=8d&pgno=89&db=bmd_1445847588&jsexec=1&mono=0&v=MTQ0NzQyOTI3MDpkN2RiZWJmZWI1OGExZjYyMDgyN2Y2YmMxMDJjZjgzMzU3OTM5NDhj&searchdef=db%3Dbmd_1445847588%26s_given%3Dellen%26eq%3D2%26sq%3D2%26given%3Drobert%26end%3D1871%26start%3D1870%26vol%3D8d%26type%3DMarriages%26pgno%3D89&action=Find
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Please could you post the 1891 census where Robert is a newsagent. All the records I can find for Roert & Ellen daughter Mary Ann Frances & son Robert seem to indicate Robert snr was a carter
Mary Ann marriage to John Barrington they were living in Oldfield Rd in 1889
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Hi lancsann,
1891 they are under MOLYMAN;
33 Oldfield Rd
Robert Molyman, 42, Newsagent
Ellen Molyman, 41
Mary Ann Molyman, 21
Robert Molyman, 14
John Prescott Molyman, 3
William Molyman, 1
1901 Ellen is Widowed;
Ellen Molineux, 52, Newsagent
John Molineux, 13
William Molineux, 11
Ellen Molineux, 8
Next Census Ellen age 19 is with her Brother William now Married.
Trish :)
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Hello lanscann and Trish,
I think the variant of the surname depends on which
source you look at and who did the transcription. FindmyPast has Molyneau in the 1891 census. (RG 12/3219) and this is quite clear.
Trish - what source did you look at?
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Ancestry :)
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Thaks Trish
What was confusing me was that on all the children's baptism and marriages he is described as a carter (porter in 1899). On all except Robert's they are living at 33 Oldfield Road.
Presumably the address was turned into a newsagent's in 1890/91 after William's birth or Ellen was actually the newsagent.
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For anyone searching for Robert Molyneux's marriage you will find him listed as Robert MULLAIS, married to Ellen Bradshaw in 1868.
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Well done salt, wow another variation of Surname.
Full entry for others searching in the future;
Marriage:
27 Dec 1868 Christ Church, Salford, Lancashire, England
Robert Mullais , 21, Carter, Bachelor, 36 Hope St.
Ellen Bradshaw, 20, Winder, Spinster, 36 Hope St.
Fathers:
William Mullais, Bleacher
Thomas Bradshaw, Deceased, Railway Guard
Witnesses: James Bradshaw; Ann Bradshaw
Trish :)
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On reflection I need to order this marriage cert and go through all the occurrences of Robert Molyneux in all his guises. Lancashire parish Clerks on line have the marriage details Trish cites of Robert Mullais and Ellen Bradshaw (mother of Mary Ann Frances Molyneux.) I believe their records are transcribed from the original parish records which suggests that Robert's name is Mullais, or that is what the minister recorded. Mullais is also the name given in the GRO indexes.
There is also a birth record for a Robert Mullus in Salford in 1845,( Q1. 20. 898) which fits.
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If you have access to Ancestry the image of the marriage certificate of Robert Mullais is online and that is how the name is written and Robert had signed
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If you have access to Ancestry the image of the marriage certificate of Robert Mullais is online and that is how the name is written and Robert had signed
Except it is transcribed Mullars - just to make life more confusing!
And this I think is the baptism
Robert Mullers
Baptism 23 Mar 1845, Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Father William Mullers, porter
Mother Ann Mullers
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1851 has yet another variation
106 King St, Manchester, parish of St Anns
William Mullass 31 - horse porter b Chorley
Ann Mullass 34 - b Chorley
Robert Mullass 6 - b Manchester
William Brown 22 - brother in law b Chorley
HO107, 2229, 749, 19
1861 - 19 Canning St, Hulme
Wm Mullass 38 - bleach works porter b Leatham
Mary Mullass 38 - b Hollings...
Wm Mullass 2 - b Manchester
Robt Mullass 15 - hooker, cloth works, b Manchester
M E Mullass 4 - daughter, scholar
L Green 19
RG 9, 2901, 39, 24
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The daughter's baptism - definitely looks like a second wife
Mary Ellen Mullis
Birth 8 Feb 1857
Baptism 1 Apr 1857, Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Father William Mullis - porter
Mother Mary Mullis
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William Mullis - minor, labourer, no father named
Ann Brown - full age, father william Brown, bleacher
I can't decipher the surnames of the witnesses.
Both residents of Botany
Marriage 16 Jul 1838, Chorley, St George
they baptise a son James on 25 Dec 1838
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Despite many matching points I'm still not convinced that Robert Mullais/mullas etc is Robert Molyneau but will do some more digging. Thanks for your contributions.
Salt
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As I said earlier;
I think you really need a Childs B/C for Ellens maiden name
March 1871
Molyneux, Mary Ann F, Salford, 8d 114
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Hello
I'm now coming round to thinking that we have the same man here.
I have the birth cert of Mary Ann Frances Molyneux and the mother's name is Ellen Bradshaw - as in the marriage of Robert Mullais! She was born 2 Jan 1871, 13 Blackburns Buildings, Salford. The 1871 census (her first) is very faint but the name is certainly more like Muleneau and not Mull* or Moll*
Here is her baptism:
Mary Ann Molineaux - [Child] of Robert Molineaux & Ellen
Baptised: 26 Feb 1871 St Bartholomew, Salford, Lancashire, England Abode: Blackburn's Bldgs.
Occupation: Carter
Baptised by: J. Moore
Register: Baptisms 1870 - 1873, Page 20, Entry 159
Source: LDS Film 1786460
I can't find another matching marriage for Robert Molyneux to Ellen which does make Mullais a possibility, neither can I find a William Mullass in the 1871 census. The GRO entry for Robert's birth is definitely Mulluss, and the GRO entries for his marriage to Ellen in 1868 are definitely Mullais.
Also the C1891 address for Robert and his wife Ellen (newsagent) is Oldfield Road, which is cut across by Hope St (marriage abode of Robert & Ellen)
Its a mystery why all the records agree on a variant of Mullass until C1871 and the birth of Mary Ellen, when he becomes Molyneux.
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a mixture of a strong accent coupled with an inability to read & write what the vicar was printing though Robert Mullais did sign the certificate in what appear to be good handwriting rather than making a mark.
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You didnt say earlier you had Mary Anns Birth Cert to confirm her Mothers m/n.
looks like all is well then :)
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Thanks to you all for helping sort the Molyneux/Mullais puzzle. Still a bit of a puzzle but I'm now convinced he is just one man!
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hi
i am trying to make some headway with the infamous molyneux variants.
my grand father was hugh albert, baptised 01.06.1873. his brother john edward born 12.11.1871 they both show up in 1881 census and hugh shows up again here and there but i lose john, there parents were thomas a boot and shoe maker and mary. they were both in swinton industrial school in 1881 and it is thought that hugh was sent to canada in his early teens but worked his passage back as he disliked the country. john is also listed as a molyneaux, whilst hugh also lists as a mollineaux and a mullineaux, the parents have salford addresses
dont know if this might connect for you
cheers carl from leicester
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Sorry, this was work for a colleague, and I am no longer working on this family.
Salt
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Just as a point of interest the 1891 census shows my great grandfather and his family living at 13 Blackburns Buildings.