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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Galway => Topic started by: anneelaine on Saturday 14 November 15 01:49 GMT (UK)

Title: william patrick king
Post by: anneelaine on Saturday 14 November 15 01:49 GMT (UK)
My friend and I are looking into doing her family tree  we have only a bit of info
1st  her grandfather was a William Patrick King born around 1894 and his wife was Ethel Mary King born around 1897  William and Ethel had a daughter called Joan King   William  had a brother his name was Joseph King who went to live in new york 
All From we think it looks like
Ballaghymurry Ballymoe Galway we are not getting anywhere with it
Would love a  bit of help please Thanks, Anne- Elaine & Ann.

Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: Sinann on Saturday 14 November 15 02:08 GMT (UK)
You have the place name correct but these are the only King's there in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Galway/Ballymoe/Ballaghymurry/459654/
And 1901 http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Galway/Ballymoe/Ballaghymurry/1381499/

I wonder if your family could have inherited this farm at a later date.
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 14 November 15 11:13 GMT (UK)
and a few 70 y.o.+ applying for Pension!!

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ghd/

71 Wills for Kings that DIED in Galway

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ghe/
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: myluck! on Saturday 14 November 15 18:07 GMT (UK)
Was KING Ethel's maiden name?

Do you have William and Ethel's marriage certificate?
This will show their father's names and occupations (usually unless marked deceased) and would help with your search

1901 Census
for William aged 6 +/- 5 years (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=1901&surname=king&exact=&firstname=william*&county19011911=&county1821=&county1831=&county1841=&county1851=&townland=&ded=&age=6&sex=&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=&birthplace=&nativeCountry=&language=&deafdumb=&houseNumber=&familiesNumber=&malesNumber=&femalesNumber=&maleServNumber=&femaleServNumber=&estChurchNumber=&romanCatNumber=&presbNumberDiv=&protNumber=&parish=&barony=&yearsMarried=&causeOfDeath=&yearOfDeath=&familyId=&ageInMonths=&search=Search&sort=firstnameSort&pageSize=100)

for Ethel aged 4 +/- 5 years (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?searchMoreVisible=&census_year=1901&surname=king&firstname=ethel*&county19011911=&county1821=&county1831=&county1841=&county1851=&parish=&ward=&barony=&townland=&houseNumber=&ded=&age=4&sex=&search=Search&ageInMonths=&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&yearsMarried=&birthplace=&nativeCountry=&language=&deafdumb=&causeOfDeath=&yearOfDeath=&familiesNumber=&malesNumber=&femalesNumber=&maleServNumber=&femaleServNumber=&estChurchNumber=&romanCatNumber=&presbNumber=&protNumber=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=)

Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: anneelaine on Saturday 14 November 15 20:12 GMT (UK)
Hi
 myluck!,   No sorry I have got not a thing just the names
Thank you all for your help We have a Bit more to go on now
 Thanks Anne Elaine & Ann.
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: myluck! on Sunday 15 November 15 07:41 GMT (UK)
Joan's birth cert should confirm their names

I don't see a marriage for them on Irish records.
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: anneelaine on Sunday 15 November 15 18:52 GMT (UK)
My friend said the marriage was in Chester 1914 she is Going to phone me later with a surname for her if she can.   My friends mother was Joan, But know's nothing about her family  and the farm  maybe it was  not theirs, But she said her mother said it was never sold she did not know where it went so maybe it was  just rented?  in Ballaghymurry Ballymoe Galway We are looking to find Joan King Family in Galway  William Patrick King born 1894 ( Joan was born in Chester ) thank you
Anneelaine & Ann
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: anneelaine on Monday 16 November 15 01:10 GMT (UK)
Found this But William Patrick King not on it
1901
Residents of a house 1 in Ballaghymurry (Ballymoe, Galway)
Show all information
Surname   Forename   Age   Sex   Relation to head   Religion
King   James   75   Male   Head of Family   Roman Catholic
King   Catherine   77   Female   Wife   Roman Catholic
King   John   50   Male   Son   Roman Catholic
King   Thomas   28   Male   Son   Roman Catholic
Report any error in transcription
Ty Do not know what to think now where is he
Anneelaine Ann
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: anneelaine on Monday 16 November 15 01:17 GMT (UK)
Hi,  myluck! Sorry forgot to give you names for Joan Kink parents it was William Patrick King &   Ethel May King as I said he moved to the UK Chester when he got married thanks
Anneelaine & Ann

Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: Sinann on Monday 16 November 15 02:24 GMT (UK)
I can't see a marriage in Chester for William King in 1914 on Free BMD.
Has your friend got the marriage cert?
If she has what is William's father's name?
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: anneelaine on Monday 16 November 15 02:42 GMT (UK)
Hello Father name is  King do not know first name sorry No she did not have the cert
But he had a brother called Joseph  King and he married  a girl called Nora, and had a daughter called Margaret, and he went to live in New York do not know when.
Thanks, Anneelaine & Ann.
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: Sinann on Monday 16 November 15 09:04 GMT (UK)
She needs to get the marriage cert to have any hope of finding William's family.
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: anneelaine on Monday 16 November 15 18:49 GMT (UK)
Hi Going to send for the marriage  cert? tonight Found  her  maiden name it is    Ethel May  Davies
.AE & A
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: heywood on Monday 16 November 15 19:10 GMT (UK)
Hello,
Have you found a marriage?

There is a 1910 marriage for Ethel May Davies to William John Dunning  ???

Regards
Heywood
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: heywood on Monday 16 November 15 19:21 GMT (UK)
I don't think the marriage I posted is the right Ethel. There is a death for Ethel Dunning.

There is a marriage in 1923 for William King and Ethel M Tootle. Could that be the marriage?
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: Sinann on Monday 16 November 15 19:37 GMT (UK)
There is a Ada M Davies and William G King 1920 Saffron W

I just can't find a William P to a Davies.

There are two William G a William H and a William A all married Davies between 1920 and 1929

a William J and a William M in 1918 but can't see any in Chester or 1914.

I haven't even checked the women's first names yet.
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: anneelaine on Monday 16 November 15 21:26 GMT (UK)
Hi Guys going to send for  marriage cert? tonight thanks all
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: anneelaine on Monday 16 November 15 21:45 GMT (UK)
I  have found it 1914  the back end William king to & Ethel May Davies also  I am lost know because I know she was married Before a  to a Tootle. Could that be the marriage?  so I have two marriages now One in 1914 and 1923 Mmmm::) But thinking about I would say it was  1923 for William King and Ethel M Tootle.  thanks everyone


Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: anneelaine on Monday 16 November 15 22:03 GMT (UK)
Just found this for the daughter of William and ethel Joan  T King mother ( Davies )

Births
Joan T King
Registration Quarter   Oct-Nov-Dec of 1926 Chester in the County of Cheshire
Mother's Maiden Name was   Davies
Volume 8A, Page No 545, Line 23

Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: heywood on Monday 16 November 15 22:13 GMT (UK)
I  have found it 1914  the back end William king to & Ethel May Davies also  I am lost know because I know she was married Before a  to a Tootle. Could that be the marriage?  so I have two marriages now One in 1914 and 1923 Mmmm::) But thinking about I would say it was  1923 for William King and Ethel M Tootle.  thanks everyone

I can't yet see a King/Davies marriage.
What do you mean 'the back end'?
Are you now saying that you know that Ethel was married to a Tootle? Why was that not mentioned earlier?
I had seen that birth record for Joan King with a mother Davies but as I said, no apparent marriage.
It would be best to send for Joan's birth certificate. It would perhaps explain the two surnames re her mother.
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: heywood on Monday 16 November 15 22:17 GMT (UK)
Cheshire BMD
Marriage 1919

John W Tootle to Ethel May Davies /Ethel May McCooey
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: heywood on Monday 16 November 15 22:27 GMT (UK)
Very puzzling now with all these names  :-\

Birth Ethel May McCooey 1898 Wirral.

Baptism St Winefride's Neston January 1898 (born 24 December 1897)

Parents Robert  and Mary Agnes McCooey

In the baptism register McCooey has been struck through  ??? and mother's maiden name shows as MCooey. I wonder if Robert was really Mr Davies?
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: Sinann on Monday 16 November 15 22:52 GMT (UK)
Where did the address in Mayo come from?
I wonder if William's father was a son of James and Catherine and William was born in England.
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: anneelaine on Monday 16 November 15 23:11 GMT (UK)
Hello my friend has just found this about her grandmother
1898 -  so her maiden name was Tootell not Davies
 Davies was  her 1st married name   
When Miss Ethel M Tootell was born about 1898, in Rawtenstall, Lancashire, her father, Mr, was 39 and her mother, Mrs, was 34.
 historical document
Discovered by ANN CRUMP in 1 found this
 back end I mean Oct Nov Dec
Thanks


Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: anneelaine on Monday 16 November 15 23:19 GMT (UK)
Hi heywood  All Ann New was her mother last
 name Was King before marriage.
 she had the name tootle and Davies  in her head but did not know  what way round sorry about that  She  new one was  from a first marriage
Annelaine

Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: heywood on Monday 16 November 15 23:25 GMT (UK)
Hello my friend has just found this about her grandmother
1898 -  so her maiden name was Tootell not Davies
 Davies was  her 1st married name   
When Miss Ethel M Tootell was born about 1898, in Rawtenstall, Lancashire, her father, Mr, was 39 and her mother, Mrs, was 34.
 historical document
Discovered by ANN CRUMP in 1 found this
 back end I mean Oct Nov Dec
Thanks

  ??? ??? Ethel May Tootell of Rawtenstall married Harold Beswick in 1926

Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: anneelaine on Monday 16 November 15 23:31 GMT (UK)
haywood it is saying her Mother's Maiden Name (not available before 1911 Q3)   is  Davies comes up
England and Wales Birth  O dear so it must be Davies her maiden name then  on her daughter' s  Birth cert  Joan T V king ( 1926 ) Chester  thank you so much 
Anneelaine
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: heywood on Monday 16 November 15 23:38 GMT (UK)
You and your friend seem to be very confused about Ethel.

Additionally, you are copying and pasting records e.g the bit about 1911 so that often makes it difficult to follow the information.

Joan's birth certificate should show mother's maiden name and any other names e.g 'formerly ...'

The King/ Tootle marriage would show Ethel's previous name too. You would also then have William's father's name.

I think your friend has the wrong Ethel with the one born in Rawtenstall.
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: anneelaine on Monday 16 November 15 23:45 GMT (UK)
Hi Yes Just told her this,
 She is going to look for her mums birth certificate  and find out what names  are on it
or order one, if her brother has it
thanks, AnneElaine
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: anneelaine on Tuesday 17 November 15 00:00 GMT (UK)
HAYWOOD Just asked her   She said  I do not know
  no one has ever said Neston to me
 only on her dad side     ::)
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: Sinann on Tuesday 17 November 15 00:05 GMT (UK)
Did Joan have any brothers or sisters?
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: anneelaine on Tuesday 17 November 15 00:07 GMT (UK)
 Sinann
 Her mum just told her the family the Kings were from there  so you could be right
Ty Anneelaine

Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 17 November 15 00:12 GMT (UK)
Going back to the Tootle marriage

John W and Ethel M Davies/McCooey married 1919

Birth Ronald W Tootle 1920 Chester - mother Davies
Death Ronald W 1921

John W Tootle died 1921
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: anneelaine on Tuesday 17 November 15 00:22 GMT (UK)
HAYWOOD
Been on the phone to her and said he could be right Parkgate  is next to Neston and  she said she thinks the mother passed away young  and she had to bring up the family it was a big family but a lot passed away early
Joan had 1 sister and 3 brothers Mary King  Peter King and Terrence King .
 Anneelaine
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 17 November 15 00:30 GMT (UK)
I think this could be Ethel in 1911 indexes

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW36-FVP
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: anneelaine on Tuesday 17 November 15 01:01 GMT (UK)
 ;D :D thank you
anneelaine
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: anneelaine on Tuesday 17 November 15 03:42 GMT (UK)
Haywood  Found this what do you think
So Ethel M Davies remarried 1n 1923 to William Patrick King.

 YOU WERE RIGHT with that name  Mcooey    THANK YOU so much maybe  we are on the move now. :)
SOURCE BOX  SHARE
Attach to Family Tree
John W Tootle
mentioned in the record of Davies Of Mccooey and John W Tootle
Name   John W Tootle
Event Type   Marriage
Registration Quarter   Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Year   1919
Registration District   Chester
County   Cheshire
Event Place   Chester, Cheshire, England
Spouse Name (available after 1911)   Davies Of Mccooey
Volume   8A
Page   1105
Line Number   53
 
John W Tootle probably married one of the following people
Name   Ethel M Davies
Name   Annie Ellis
Name   Arthur LindopName

John W Tootle England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007
Name   John W Tootle
Event Type   Death
Registration Quarter   Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration Year   1921
Registration District   Chester
County   Cheshire
Event Place   Chester, Cheshire, England
Age (available after 1866)   26
Birth Year (Estimated)   1895
Volume   8A
Page   449
Line Number   60
CITING THIS RECORD
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 17 November 15 07:45 GMT (UK)
Yes, I think you should now go ahead and order the marriage certificate for King and Tootle. That will give you the father's name of William King.

What evidence do you have re William coming from Ballymoe, Galway?

Please may I remind you re copy and paste. Not only is it difficult to read, it infringes Rootschat's terms of use.
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 17 November 15 08:10 GMT (UK)
HAYWOOD Just asked her   She said  I do not know
  no one has ever said Neston to me
 only on her dad side     ::)

What do you mean 'only on her dad's side'?

Do you mean that William King had connections to Neston area?
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: Sinann on Tuesday 17 November 15 10:04 GMT (UK)
Is the mother's name Davies or Tootle?

Mary G 1924
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QV36-HQWH

Joan T 1926
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QV3N-5GQB

Peter M 1929
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QV3L-MZQZ

Terence 1934
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVQC-5YWN


Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 17 November 15 10:54 GMT (UK)
Hi Sinann,

The mother's name is Davies.
It looks as though this is the likely scenario:

1898 Birth Ethel M McCooey
1911 Ethel M Davies - mother remarried or living with a Mr Davies?
1919 married J W Tootle
1919 Mr Tootle died
1923 married William King.

Heywood
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: Sinann on Tuesday 17 November 15 11:59 GMT (UK)
So Ethel had four surnames through her life.
I added Joan to the list above, if they are the correct years they are hopefully the children she had with William King.

Now is it settled which surname she used when she married William?
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 17 November 15 12:02 GMT (UK)
Yes.
1923 King/Tootle.
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: Sinann on Tuesday 17 November 15 13:47 GMT (UK)
Well done.
Just have wait for the marriage cert now.
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: anneelaine on Tuesday 17 November 15 17:59 GMT (UK)
Hello
 Now I Know how to copy & paste will do from now on thanks for telling me,
waiting now the marriage cert looking forward to that thank you so much.
 It's only word of mouth Ann's mum took her to see the home when she was younger
Anneelaine
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: anneelaine on Tuesday 17 November 15 18:18 GMT (UK)
1911 Ethel M Davies lived with her father so I think that would  be the Mr Davies Her Mother passed away young.
Anneelaine
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 17 November 15 22:32 GMT (UK)
Unfortunately, we can't discuss 1911 census for copyright reasons - only the indexes but you really need to read the census.
Bear in mind the first name of Ethel's mother.
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: anneelaine on Wednesday 18 November 15 02:18 GMT (UK)
Hello, Cannot find her on the 1911 census !!!must be doing something wrong. i can only find  Ethel E Davies Neston
Anneelaine
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 18 November 15 07:41 GMT (UK)
Are you searching for Ethel Davies born Neston?

I thought you had found her because you mention her 'father'.

You need to get those certificates to ensure that Ethel May MCooey is Ethel May Davies etc.

If you recall, Ethel MCooey's mother was Mary Agnes. Here is the baptism.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3HF-H7Q

The repetition of MCooey in mother's name indicates that the mother's surname is McCooey. The baptism certificate - available on another site- shows that Ethel is illegitimate, I think because the word meaning married has been struck through. The certificate is in Latin.
The name Robert may indicate a father's name or could be made up.

It looks as though Mary Agnes then lived with Mr Davies and Ethel took his name.

Thus is just what I think though - you need the certificates to try to sort it out. I can't find Mary Agnes in earlier censuses either!
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 18 November 15 09:13 GMT (UK)
Here is another possibly relevant record

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3HT-ZQQ
Title: Re: william patrick king
Post by: anneelaine on Thursday 19 November 15 00:46 GMT (UK)
Thanks, Haywood we will have to see what it say on   certificates  now
Anneelaine