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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: kaperc on Saturday 14 November 15 05:16 GMT (UK)
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I have a puzzle as follows:
Elizabeth Hannah Hargreaves, born ca 1869 in Stacksteads, Bacup, Lancashire had six children:
1. Clara Page Hargreaves, 1888
2. Sarah Page Hargreaves, 1889
3. Joseph Page Hargreaves, 1891
In 1891, they were all residing with Joseph Page, single, in Nelson (Burnley) - Joseph and Elizabeth listed as the parents of the three children.
In 1901, Elizabeth was enumerated as a housekeeper in the household of Walter Johnson, still in Nelson, now with three more children:
4. Fred Hargreaves, 1893
5. Edith Hargreaves, 1897
6. Walter Hargreaves, 1899
In 1911, Walter Johnson, head, married, is living in Nelson with Fred, Edith, and Walter. No Elizabeth - instead a servant by the name of Alice Dawson. The children are all now bearing the surname Johnson.
I did obtain a marriage certificate for Walter Johnson and Elizabeth Hannah Hargreaves, dated 1903, register office Burnley.
Here is where it gets really weird.
According to the marriage certificate, Elizabeth is a widow, and her father's name is Roger Platt.
So, did Elizabeth get married and widowed sometime between 1901 and 1903?
Was her maiden name Platt and did she marry someone named Hargreaves - giving that name to all her children?
Or was it the custom for a previously married woman to put the name of her deceased husband in the spot for her father's name? (I found a marriage for an Elizabeth Hargreaves and a John Thomas Platt in 1903, but this seems to be just a coincidence - Hargreaves is very well represented in the area).
Because her name is common, I have not confirmed her birth and parents. The only reason I have as much information as I do is because, bless her, she named her children in a way to make it easier to trace them.
This is my husband's great-grandmother and I would really like to find her before and after the census records.
Thanks for any ideas that might help.
Kathleen
in
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1888 Clara P Hargreaves registered in Whitworth and Brandwood - Rochdale WB/50/62
1889 Sarah Page Hargreaves registered Colne - Preston (mmn Hargreaves ) COL /102/29
1891 Joseph Page Hargreaves - same Colne mmn Hargreaves COL/106/69
1893 Frederick Hargreaves - Burnley - Preston - mmn Hargreaves BU/215/46
1897 Edith Johnson Hargreaves - Nelson - Preston - mmn Hargreaves NEL/7/54
1899 Walter Johnson Hargreaves - Nelson - Preston mmn PLATT NEL/11/33
So -
1885 in Hyndburn Register Office or Registrar attended - Elizabeth Hannah Platt married John Hargreaves
it looks to me like this is Elizabeth Hannahs only official marriage
maybe someone else can spot something I haven't ??
:)
you may want to have a look at
Sarah Jane Hargreaves - 1886 mmn PLATT registered Newchurch - Preston NEW/78/14
Maud Alice Hargreaves - 1887 mmn PLATT registered Colne - Preston - COL/93/78
THESE MAY ALSO BE CHILDREN OF Elizabeth Hannah Platt / Hargreaves and maybe they are with John Hargreaves in 1891 census ?? Newchurch to Stacksteads is 1 mile - so Sarah Jane looks to be very possible
all available on
www.lancashirebmd.org.uk
marriage was in 1905 for Walter and Elizabeth - you have posted 1903
1905 - Lancashirebmd
Elizabeth Hannah HARGREAVES & Walter JOHNSON Burnley Register Office/ Registrar Attended Preston RM/134/123
Walter JOHNSON & Elizabeth Hannah PLATT Burnley Register Office/ Registrar Attended Preston RM/134/123
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Baptism: 20 Oct 1887 St John the Evangelist, Great Marsden, Lancashire
Maud Alice Hargreaves - 2nd daug. of John & Elizabeth Ann Hargreaves of Great Marsden
b 17 May 1887. John was a mason
Hannah = Ann on many records and it states 2ND DAUGHTER ...so it looks to me like Elizabeth Hannah had 8 children and not 6...let me see if I can find Maud Alice Hargreaves in the 1891 census
ADDED
sadly she died aged 5 months
Alice Maud Hargreaves buried 26 Oct 1887 St John the Evangelist, Great Marsden, Lancashire
....................................
Sarah Jane born mar qtr 1886 Haslingden - died sep qtr 1886 Haslingden - looks like they both died as babies ??
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take a look at this family and see what you think - if Elizabeth Hannah / Ann Platt married in 1885 to John Hargreaves and you know her fathers name was Roger Platt - this Elizabeth Ann Platt was born 1865 - not 1869 ....looks to be the right family to me
names are given of Elizabeths siblings and mother to Elizabeths own children ie Sarah / Alice
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KD6Z-FQ8 9 miles from Newchurch
what do you think ?
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From www.lancashirebmd.org.uk
1905
Elizabeth Hannah Hargreaves (previously Elizabeth Hannah Platt) and Walter Johnson at Burnley Register Office.
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Thanks so much to all! I knew this was the place to ask for help. I have been away from British research for a while and forgot some of the places to look. Still have some digging to do about possible other children, etc., but at least I think this will stand up:
Elizabeth Hannah Platt was the daughter of Roger Platt and Sarah Ann Barcroft - this is huge, because the family only knew her as Hargreaves. She married John Hargreaves first and then Walter Johnson. I have ordered certificates for her birth and Hargreaves marriage, plus the birth of her mother, which is also a new surname.
Garstonite has given me a lot to look at - the name Maude for one, as that was the name of Clara Hargreaves Grimley's first daughter.
BTW, NOW my husband tells me he remembers visiting relatives at Stacksteads...where was that information 20 years ago? LOL
Kathleen
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A possibility in 1891 for her estranged husband:
25 yr old stonemason's labourer John Hargraves, born Burnley, "married" but no wife with him. Enumerated in the household of his father Richard, a stonemason, at 25 Boot Street, Burnley.
RG12/3360/31/55.
Obviously there is a match with the father's occupation on Maud's baptism.
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Hmmm.
John Hargreaves, 22, of 25 Boot St, Burnley, married Agnes Bethom, 19, at St Peter Burnley on 6 Oct 1887.
Agnes appears with her parents in 1891 and two children, Ethel Hargreaves 3 and Walter Hargreaves 1. She is with John in later censuses.
So this John of Boot St was either bigamously married before the baptism of Maud, or he is a red herring and not the John who was married to Elizabeth.
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Thanks, AVM. Soooo many Hargreaves in that area, so I am not surprised. I was surprised, though, at how many Elizabeth Hannah/Ann Platts were around at the same time!
My husband's ancestry doesn't have a unique name to be found.
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take a look at this family and see what you think - if Elizabeth Hannah / Ann Platt married in 1885 to John Hargreaves and you know her fathers name was Roger Platt - this Elizabeth Ann Platt was born 1865 - not 1869 ....looks to be the right family to me
names are given of Elizabeths siblings and mother to Elizabeths own children ie Sarah / Alice
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KD6Z-FQ8 9 miles from Newchurch
what do you think ?
I think you are right!
Thanks for all your help. I've done a lot of searching and have lots more to work with now.
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quote
BTW, NOW my husband tells me he remembers visiting relatives at Stacksteads...where was that information 20 years ago? LOL
some research is quite simply easy and a little boring - I found this family very interesting and quite a challenge ...it is YOU who now have a very interesting ancestry and I am interested to know -any more Sarah as a christian name in recent times ??....I think it is so nice when a family name is passed on generation after generation - I wonder if Sarah Ann Barcroft mother and grandmother were also named Sarah ???...I would have to find that out if I was in your shoes .
good luck in your research and thanks for such an interesting family ...it was fun
:)
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I am interested to know -any more Sarah as a christian name in recent times ??....I think it is so nice when a family name is passed on generation after generation - I wonder if Sarah Ann Barcroft mother and grandmother were also named Sarah ???...I would have to find that out if I was in your shoes .
good luck in your research and thanks for such an interesting family ...it was fun
:)
No more Sarahs in the family as yet, but I will report back. I feel the same about names - I was happy to find that I am at least the third Isabella (though a middle name) in a row in my mother's family...sadly, I will be the last. My mother's brothers have been remembered as well.
Kathleen
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The story just goes on and on. Given the information from Garstonite about possible other children, I kept digging.
I found another daughter (it seems) named Ada Johnson Hargreaves b. 1896, died 1897
Then I went to the LANC OPC records and searched for Hargreaves and found the following:
Baptism: 31 Dec 1896 St John the Evangelist, Great Marsden, Lancashire, England
Ada Hargreaves - [Child] of Elizabeth Ann Hargreaves
Born: 11 Mar 1896
Abode: 1 Yorkshire St
Notes: Privately [in margin. Father's details blank]
Baptised by: A. Wilson
Register: Baptisms 1895 - 1899, Page 37, Entry 296
Source: LDS Film 1471098
Baptism: 31 Dec 1896 St John the Evangelist, Great Marsden, Lancashire, England
Fred Hargreaves - [Child] of Elizabeth Ann Hargreaves
Born: 18 Sep 1893
Abode: 1 Yorkshire St
Notes: Privately [in margin. Father's details blank]
Baptised by: A. Wilson
Register: Baptisms 1895 - 1899, Page 37, Entry 295
Source: LDS Film 1471098
Baptism: 31 Dec 1896 St John the Evangelist, Great Marsden, Lancashire, England
Sarah Hargreaves - [Child] of Elizabeth Ann Hargreaves
Born: 18 Oct 1889
Abode: 1 Yorkshire St
Notes: Privately [in margin. Father's details blank]
Baptised by: A. Wilson
Register: Baptisms 1895 - 1899, Page 37, Entry 294
Source: LDS Film 1471098
Burial: 9 Jan 1897 St John the Evangelist, Great Marsden, Lancashire, England
Ada Johnson Hargreaves -
Age: 9 months
Abode: 1 Yorkshire St. Little Marsden
Buried by: George A Fry
Register: Burials 1895 - 1900, Page 50, Entry 399
Source: LDS Film 1471098
It looks as if little Ada was ill and mum took two of the others along to be baptized as well. This makes it look like 9 children altogether.
Still looking for John Hargreaves' death. Perhaps the marriage cert will give me his father's name, which will help weed him out from all the other John Hargreaves (please let it be Hubert or Aloysius).